[vantage]

Quote from LeftLaneNews: "How much will maintaining a high tech car cost you?"

"Of course, when it comes to high repair costs, gadgets aren’t the only problem. High-tech manufacturing methods can also be very costly. In October, we cited an LA Times report that looked at BMW’s construction methods that can make for costly fender-benders.

For example, the new BMW 5-series and 6-series models are constructed with “many of the same techniques you might find at the Northrop Grumman F-18 assembly plant in El Segundo.” These new cars use rivets, epoxy adhesives and aluminum structures in the front end to save weight.

The BMW system features an aluminum firewall and aluminum frame rails that extend forward, all riveted and glued to the rest of the car’s steel structure. The entire front structure weighs just 100 pounds, giving the car a perfect 50/50 weight distribution.

Unfortunately, due to the limitations of aluminum, if the front end of one of these new Bimmers gets tweaked by more than a millimeter in a relatively light front collision, the entire front structure might need to be replaced."


ok, i knew aluminum was malleable, but DAMN! could this really be true?? could a small fender bender harm the chassis?? as well, aluminum unlike most metals gets stronger when oxidized, and anondized aluminum is quite strong....plus i doubt BMW makes their bumper out of pure aluminum and not some sort of alloy

[stressdoc]

This is the 5/6 series. Aluminum composite cars are nice, but, like carbon fibre cars, they are not easy to repair.

No such problem with 3 series.

[arcrox]

Read this article.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=109234

[vantage]

so then what is the 3 series body made of? i was almost sure is was an aluminum alloy...

[vantage]

Originally Posted by arcrox

Read this article.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=109234

thanks for the article...it helped a lot...but personally...for me there are only 3 bmw's i'm concerned with....the 3 series, the m3 , and the m roadster....anyone have any info on the body of any of those?

[3aficionado]

You may find this interesting if you are thinking about a 335.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18359

[JSpira]

One of the top BMW-only body shops in the New York metro area (Small Cars) closed about a year and a half ago, the owner lamenting that he felt that the new BMW ranges were not repairable to the standard he would normally use (his work was considered to be equivalent to factory).

[climkt]

Unfortunately, my experience with 3 series says yes. Modern post e46 beemers are quite fragile when it comes to 'plasticky parts' in particular e46 chrome or black window sill trim kept coming out in my e46 even after changing the catches.
there is a poorly designed black plastic corner piece that is situated under and behind the e90 front seats. it popped out 2 weeks after i collected the car. my dealership initally refused to change it saying it was wear and tear and somebody knocked it off!
Also my rear windscreen rubber was loose after 1 week. so beemers in my opinion are still prone to fragile body parts, dodgy QC and some plastic parts could be better designed.

[meruyailir]

Same here. My rear windscreen rubber has been always loose and the dealer fixed it last week and it's gotten loose again.

Originally Posted by climkt

Unfortunately, my experience with 3 series says yes. Modern post e46 beemers are quite fragile when it comes to 'plasticky parts' in particular e46 chrome or black window sill trim kept coming out in my e46n even after changing the catches.
there is a poorly designed black plastic corner piece that is situated under and behind the e90 front seats. it popped out 2 weeks after i collected the car. my dealership initally refused to change it saying it was wear and tear and somebody knocked it off!
Also my rear windscreen rubber was loose after 1 week. so beemers in my opinion are still prone to fragile body parts, dodgy QC and some plastic parts could be better designed.

[hotsand5]

I do think that the new 3 uses the same materials as the 5 and 6 for the engine cradle, frame rails, etc. That is what the guy at the BMW certified body shop told me while my car was there after the accident...hmmm...and yes, at 35mph the car was totalled after an off-set frontal collision (one of the most severe impacts on the cars structure). I'm sure that as soon as insurance companies start figuring this out, our rates will get jacked! After the accident everybody told me that is would not be possible for them to total a $50k car for just frontal damage....sure enough, they were wrong.

[BitStream]

I managed a bodyshop in NY Metro area for year and a half. We were authorized and did dealer work for nearby MB/BMW/Volvo/Jaguar. Also Allstate/Geico/Farmer PRO Shop.

I left in 2003, but by that time already we were already dealing with aluminum frames and structures in some of the higher end vehicles.

After having to reequip the shop to deal with all of this, let me be the first to tell you a car is almost never the same after a serious hit. You can get it near perfect sometimes, but it's always just a little off - never the same.

It's hard enough to work with the myriad of parts and sub-assemblies, but the insurance companies are always hunting the mighty dollar asking shops to straighten structural panels rather than replace.

We were once forced to straighten, bondo and paint a floor plan that looked like a crumpled up piece of aluminum foil. Insurance company refused to pay to replace. A car like this in a rear colission again will definitely not hold up to it's original spec. <- one example of hundreds.

All of this of course is referring to hard structural hits and not your every day cosmetic bullshit.

[BitStream]

Originally Posted by hotsand5

I do think that the new 3 uses the same materials as the 5 and 6 for the engine cradle, frame rails, etc.

It does

[BitStream]

One more story of a younger stupider me --

Borrowed my sister's 2000 328ci (e46 correct?) to go up to the gf at the time's house. Ended up hitting a patch of black ice, slamming into a cement barrier at a head-on angle at about 35-40 miles per hour.

The car was torn down and was very close to being totalled out. They decided to repair against our wishes. The car looked beautiful - hard to tell it was ever hit. Never did drive just right the same. Rear tires were always balding unevenly. Car was brought back to the shop multiple times and checked on the frame machine, aligned, all tires balanced and speed tested .. everything showed up ok, but it was never right. Very happy to return that lease.

Most important thing though, I walked away from the accident without a scratch. I don't remember for sure, but I don't even think I was wearing seatbelt at the time.

[spots]

Originally Posted by hotsand5

I do think that the new 3 uses the same materials as the 5 and 6 for the engine cradle, frame rails, etc. That is what the guy at the BMW certified body shop told me while my car was there after the accident...hmmm...and yes, at 35mph the car was totaled after an off-set frontal collision (one of the most severe impacts on the cars structure). I'm sure that as soon as insurance companies start figuring this out, our rates will get jacked! After the accident everybody told me that is would not be possible for them to total a $50k car for just frontal damage....sure enough, they were wrong.

I am one person who would take the safety of a BMW over the possible cost to fix one in an accident. If I drive a car with a lesser crash rating and am hurt in an accident my time off work would more than pay for a new car. Not to mention the overall effects of damage to our bodies later in life. If I am dead than what good is more money in the bank and a lesser car in the garage?? I believe insurance companies pay more money out for injuries than car repairs.

[msmtz]

Originally Posted by vantage

so then what is the 3 series body made of? i was almost sure is was an aluminum alloy...

The RWD 3 series uses Aluminium. The XI uses steel.

[Mummiez]

Originally Posted by msmtz

The RWD 3 series uses Aluminium. The XI uses steel.

You just made my day..thanks

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by msmtz

The RWD 3 series uses Aluminium. The XI uses steel.

No, all E90 are steel

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by Mummiez

You just made my day..thanks

Sorry, but he is wrong.

[E90Fleet]

I asked our BMW only body shop here, and they said they have no problems with the Aluminium in 5 and 6 Series.

They say you need special tools and extra training for the staff, but after that there is no problem.


Besides, if they were so expensive to fix as that article says then Insurance companies whould have massively rased their rates, which they have not

[Chuck_IV]

Originally Posted by msmtz

The RWD 3 series uses Aluminium. The XI uses steel.

The only difference I can find is(taken from the BMW website), the 325xi and 330xi have steel lower arms and a steel subframe, plus an aluminum thrust plate. I don't know how that compares to the i tho.

[msmtz]

It looks like the some of suspension components on the XI are steel. Probably not the frame rails.





• Extensive aluminum componentry for low
unsprung weight.This improves the suspension’s
response to bumps and other road
irregularities; it can markedly improve riding
comfort and, on any irregular road surface,
handling as well. Aluminum components on
each side include –
• Both lower arms (forged aluminum)
• Steering knuckle (also forged)
• Brake caliper (not part of suspension, but
part of unsprung weight)
• Brake shield (a stamped piece; also not
part of suspension, but part of unsprung
weight).
In addition, the subframe that carries the front
suspension is of aluminum, as is the steering
rack; these are not unsprung components,
but do contribute to overall weight reduction –
and being up front, also to the “typical BMW”
near-50/50 weight distribution. More elaborate
than the previous steel one, the new subframe
adds rigidity, enhances steering precision and
is also an integral element in the vehicle’s
management of energy in a frontal crash.
The previous 3 Series’ aluminum components
were its single lower arm and brake shield;
thus there is more extensive use of aluminum
in the new system. All things considered, the
new front suspension represents an enhancement
of the 3 Series’ already legendary road
qualities.
Note: The 325xi and 330xi models have steel
lower arms, and a steel subframe plus an
aluminum thrust plate that reinforces the
main structure in the area of the subframe’s
attachment.This arrangement provides
additional strength for the xi models’ driven
front wheels.Thus it cannot be claimed that
the xi models have aluminum suspension.

[Gavinw]

I got in an accident last friday, and I was floored when the insurance inspector told me there was $10k worth of damage to my car when the other car needed a new bumper at most, and this was at 10mph max.