[lethbridge]

The Taycan remains probably the only EV I'd consider but no plans to do so until I'm forced to right now... I know Shmee isn't for everyone and this is quite a long video but it pretty much covers most of the challenges of EV ownership if you can't charge at home or if you do long distances. In short Tim set out to make a positive video extolling the virtues of high speed charging but it went badly wrong... It seemed flawed from the start - having to drive 20 miles out of central London to charge your car... But then his day got worse and worse and basically took him 3 hours to give his car a 50% charge which is good for 80-100 miles... I just can't see an end in sight for when EVs will make sense if you cannot home charge...

https://youtu.be/XwevvreoNjE

[JustChris]

Yes I saw that last night. Very honest appraisal and you can tell he's just going to get rid of it.

For EV you need home overnight charging.

[isleaiw1]

I'd like to embrace EV. I live in the SE so most of my journeys are relatively short and slow, and I can charge at home.

But I still do the long journeys home and at 300 miles in a weekend that would mean recharging on route back (or whilst trying to fit in as much as possible in the 2 days up there). Which is clearly what the Audi e-tron driver was doing at Watford gap on Sunday late afternoon when I stopped to stretch my legs.... When I parked up he was connecting up to the charger, faffing with his phone (an app I assume) and checking the machine. When I returned to my car after visiting the conveniences, he was.... checking his phone and checking the machine.

Nice idea but I'll take my V6 for now. I made it back on one tank with 70 miles remaining. And it makes a much nicer noise

[lethbridge]

I thought at least when you charge you can go for a cuppa or something (not that that is how I ever want to spend my time) but seems you can't even do that without a) being paranoid your car isn't charging like Shmee's or b) finding your car finished early as the charge rate seems unpredicatable and there's an annoyed queue of cars waiting for you to shift out the way... then there's finding the charger in the first place, gambling whether to queue or drive somewhere else, being able to park so the cable will reach, getting soaked in the process, and after all that the charger times you out for whatever reason... complete chuffing nightmare... I know what I'd do if I was Shmee looking at his totally impractical, sad looking Taycan... Small EVs for city driving where you can charge them at home make sense - but then that is really what public transport is for...

[sahajesh]

The Taycan is for posers and I bet they do/will see very little actual mileage, comparatively speaking.

I understand why Shmee got it, he has multiple cars and loves Porsche, so why not?

If anyone is serious for EV, then you really want Tesla (shudder!) as the charging network is closed and therefore works better.

[Sennen]

I think Shnee should stop spending fortunes on cars and buy himself a proper house.

Absolute nightmare, a crazy way to spend £100k plus at this juncture of EV development, there is an awful long way to go before it will become a valid alternative to IC as a primary/only car.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

The Taycan is for posers and I bet they do/will see very little actual mileage, comparatively speaking.

I understand why Shmee got it, he has multiple cars and loves Porsche, so why not?

If anyone is serious for EV, then you really want Tesla (shudder!) as the charging network is closed and therefore works better.

I dont actually think the Taycan even looks very good and from what I can see of the inside of Schmees car it doesnt strike me as a particularly nice place to be either for £100k plus.

I think Tesla is a more sensible option but I just cannot get past their interiors which frankly look cheap and nasty.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by lethbridge

I thought at least when you charge you can go for a cuppa or something (not that that is how I ever want to spend my time) but seems you can't even do that without a) being paranoid your car isn't charging like Shmee's or b) finding your car finished early as the charge rate seems unpredicatable and there's an annoyed queue of cars waiting for you to shift out the way... then there's finding the charger in the first place, gambling whether to queue or drive somewhere else, being able to park so the cable will reach, getting soaked in the process, and after all that the charger times you out for whatever reason... complete chuffing nightmare... I know what I'd do if I was Shmee looking at his totally impractical, sad looking Taycan... Small EVs for city driving where you can charge them at home make sense - but then that is really what public transport is for...

Or someone has pulled the plug out !!!

How long before we see 'Charge Point Rage'

[JustChris]

Does anyone foresee some very awkward and tense moments approaching for the 'queuing' of EV chargers?

Didn't that person arrive after me, he seems to be moving forward next?
Why hasn't that a$$hole come back to his car its been at 100% for 20 minutes?

[JNW1]

I'm watching the whole "let's move away from fossil fuels" thing with interest and frankly I'm just not convinced the alternatives the politicians are talking about are realistic in the timescales they're suggesting.

EV's are just one case in point; they might be feasible for people who can a) afford to buy them and b) have properties where they can charge them overnight but I suspect that will leave a significant proportion of the car owning population wondering what they're going to do. Similarly, it all sounds fine and dandy to have everyone get rid of their existing gas boilers and move to heat pumps but when you investigate making the change it's not feasible - or is unrealistically expensive - for a lot of people.

And even if you could get everyone to make the change where's the electricity going to come from to charge all these EV's, run all the heat pumps, etc? I know a lot can change in 10 years but much of what's being talked about at the moment sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me.....

[lethbridge]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I'm watching the whole "let's move away from fossil fuels" thing with interest and frankly I'm just not convinced the alternatives the politicians are talking about are realistic in the timescales they're suggesting.

EV's are just one case in point; they might be feasible for people who can a) afford to buy them and b) have properties where they can charge them overnight but I suspect that will leave a significant proportion of the car owning population wondering what they're going to do. Similarly, it all sounds fine and dandy to have everyone get rid of their existing gas boilers and move to heat pumps but when you investigate making the change it's not feasible - or is unrealistically expensive - for a lot of people.

And even if you could get everyone to make the change where's the electricity going to come from to charge all these EV's, run all the heat pumps, etc? I know a lot can change in 10 years but much of what's being talked about at the moment sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me.....

Totally agree - I looked into an Electric Boiler for my house as my boiler is 20 years old and I keep having to patch it up only to find they don't make one big enough and if they did it would cost a fortune to run. I then looked at heatpumps - I thought I had a big enough garden, not that I want it all dug up but nope, apparently my garden isn't big enough - so as with EVs we're getting all these political headlines with no clue how on earth they can be delivered...

On the EVs - I live in the southwest and am very aware of the volume of cars that travel down in the summer and they'd all need to stop at least once to charge - how on earth will that ever work even if a full charge could be done in 30 mins...

[Grant_7]

Just as info for the thread (and is purely based on my experience, which is Tesla):

• Charging cables are locked into the cars, therefore someone couldn't come along and just unplug it.

• If charging gets interrupted, then the car sends you a notification to your phone.

• If you overstay, i.e. are still plugged in after finishing charging, then you're charged idle fees, which aren't cheap.

• You always know how busy chargers are as the in-car display shows real time usage.

• When you select a charger (Supercharger), the car alerts the supercharger station with an ETA such that it can plan total usage. When they are busy and there's the risk of a queue, then they can limit total amount of charge per vehicle.

Obviously all of the above is Tesla and I have no experience outside of the network other than PodPoint at the local Tesco (which works really well to be fair).

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I'm watching the whole "let's move away from fossil fuels" thing with interest and frankly I'm just not convinced the alternatives the politicians are talking about are realistic in the timescales they're suggesting.

EV's are just one case in point; they might be feasible for people who can a) afford to buy them and b) have properties where they can charge them overnight but I suspect that will leave a significant proportion of the car owning population wondering what they're going to do. Similarly, it all sounds fine and dandy to have everyone get rid of their existing gas boilers and move to heat pumps but when you investigate making the change it's not feasible - or is unrealistically expensive - for a lot of people.

And even if you could get everyone to make the change where's the electricity going to come from to charge all these EV's, run all the heat pumps, etc? I know a lot can change in 10 years but much of what's being talked about at the moment sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me.....

There was a top troll on this subject yesterday by Greta Thunberg

"50% of the carbon reductions needed to get to net zero will come from technologies that have not yet been invented"

Great news! I spoke to Harry Potter and he said he will team up with Gandalf, Sherlock Holmes & The Avengers and get started right away!
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ays-john-kerry

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by lethbridge

On the EVs - I live in the southwest and am very aware of the volume of cars that travel down in the summer and they'd all need to stop at least once to charge - how on earth will that ever work even if a full charge could be done in 30 mins...

Because you don't charge to full - you charge enough to get you to your destination.

Fast chargers are really just in-betweens to get you to the next fast charger, or your destination. Obviously if you can't charge at your destination, then some further planning is required...

[HighlandPete]

I sense planning EV charge points for a long journey, must be something like planning the best public conveniences, when you have your 90 year old mother as passenger. Plus you must always have a plan B at the ready.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by Grant_7

Just as info for the thread (and is purely based on my experience, which is Tesla):

• Charging cables are locked into the cars, therefore someone couldn't come along and just unplug it.

• If charging gets interrupted, then the car sends you a notification to your phone.

• If you overstay, i.e. are still plugged in after finishing charging, then you're charged idle fees, which aren't cheap.

• You always know how busy chargers are as the in-car display shows real time usage.

• When you select a charger (Supercharger), the car alerts the supercharger station with an ETA such that it can plan total usage. When they are busy and there's the risk of a queue, then they can limit total amount of charge per vehicle.

Obviously all of the above is Tesla and I have no experience outside of the network other than PodPoint at the local Tesco (which works really well to be fair).

And this why (if you like Tesla) they are the best in the game.

[lethbridge]

Originally Posted by Grant_7

Because you don't charge to full - you charge enough to get you to your destination.

Fast chargers are really just in-betweens to get you to the next fast charger, or your destination. Obviously if you can't charge at your destination, then some further planning is required...

That's still not addressing the issue though - the average jouney down to Cornwall is going to be beyond an EVs range so it will need at least one full charge or multiple top ups - seems like a logisitcal nightmare to me when everyone is doing the same thing on the same day (and most will be staying places with limited ability to charge once they are there)...

[frchdragon]

EV has to make sense for you to buy. Period.
If you commute a lot and can charge at home, it makes sense (and cheap electric bills)
If you have to do lots of long trips, it might not.

This is pure common sense. And then there is the early adopter effect, to be able to say " I had an EV before everybody has one and a 10k 40" TV..."

But then we have another ICE vs EV thread, always fun to read.

[DazC]

I've leased a little Mii electric to keep the mileage off my M2C and keep fuel costs down.

To be honest it's a great little car, if being a little basic. Still has Aircon, cruise, heated seats, heated windscreen, lane assist and you use your own mobile as the satnav so it's great for using Waze, Spotify and the likes.

I've dropped my fuel bills massively, have a home charging point and do anywhere from 80 - 100 miles per day in it with 80% - 85% motorway.

it's no Tesla but it does the job.

I understand this wasnt really the point of the OPs post, but I've found using the public charging network in Scotland painless and also mostly free where I charge, albeit I'm aware this is being gradually phased out across many cities.

[davyk31]

I’m about to embark on EV ownership soon too. I do mostly short trips, 3 mile commute, can charge at home and work so it will be very rare I need to charge elsewhere. However as public chargers here in N Ireland are free to use then I might as well get a top up if parking somewhere where there is a charger.

[gangzoom]

Sadly Shmee's charging experience is almost identical to my own back in 2015, the cars may have more range, and chargers more power, unless you have 99.99% reliability of fuel stations any car becomes very comprised.

I once had to resort to plan C - taking a 20 mile detour to a Nissan dealer in Milton Keynes after x3 different rapid chargers on the M1 failed to work. It turned a 2hr trip into a near 5hr marathon to just limp home.



Contrast that to the experience Tesla delivers, this was last weekend at Rugby service. 12 brand new Tesla chargers, all working, no faffing with cards, well designed charger placement, no cables rubbing on body work, the car even reports 'live' charger occupancy so you know to skip a charging site if its busy if you can, it all just works.





For half term we are going to be covering some 750mile+ over 3-4 days, with 6 people in the car. I wouldn't dream of using any other EV for this trip, especially during half term. Can you imagine having to deal with Shmee's experience, but with family in the car and 200 miles away from home!! Your £100K+ Taycan might as well be a £100K door stop.

[225]

Originally Posted by frchdragon

EV has to make sense for you to buy. Period.
If you commute a lot and can charge at home, it makes sense (and cheap electric bills)
If you have to do lots of long trips, it might not.

This is pure common sense. And then there is the early adopter effect, to be able to say " I had an EV before everybody has one and a 10k 40" TV..."

But then we have another ICE vs EV thread, always fun to read.

I'm of the age where my (old max power reader) brain always thinks of ICE as In Car Entertainment...
Anyhow I have a driveway, do generally shortish trips, have quite a few chargers near by and all the car parks have them but I just have no desire to own an EV. I have never driven one so have yet to see the light but as I won't be changing cars for 4 years will not have to think about until then anyway. Maybe then tech will have improved.