New Build House and Developer Issues

andrew.webber · 03-30-2021, 04:05 AM

I wonder if someone with more knowledge with these matters might be able to point me in the right direction please?

Without going into too much detail I brought a new build property last October from a developer that was sold to me by the estate agents as a quality luxury home developer and the properties that they have built previously looked very good but they normally build very large 1-2 million pounds houses and only just 1 or 2 at a time.

I have moved into a new build house on a larger development of theirs of about 40 odd houses and maybe this is where a lot of the issues are coming in!? They market themselves as a large luxury house developer but in reality, it is 2 blokes and an admin person.

The construction manager, when he actually replies to my emails, says that they have had resource issues due to Covid and has been saying to me since October of last year that he will fix my problems within the next 2 weeks and it never happens.

I spoke with the MD at the start of December who apologized and said that they had issues with Covid and he would get the construction manager to fix my issues before Christmas and that did not happen.

I spoke with the construction manager 2 weeks ago and again he said that there were low on resource due to Covid but would fix my issues by the end of March and nothing has happened. Now some of this may be true but Covid has not stopped them from working on the next phase of the development over the Road from me at all!

I have issues externally with rendering on walls falling off and also issues internally and they are saying that they will not do anything internal due to Covid whilst I am in the property – so I said I would stay out of the house for a day to let them get it and fix water marks etc. from leaks but they never replied.
Of course they have contractors working inside and outside of the new properties that they are building.

I have spoken with the NHBC who were completely unhelpful saying that I have to give the developer time to fix the issues and that there is nothing set in stone with regards to how long they can take to fix them but I have now been waiting for 5 months.

I rang the local council who pointed me to the NHBC and then the independent dispute resolution scheme who said start by lodging a complaint with the developer.

I have logged an official complaint with the developer – from looking at their website there have a complaint procedures section that say just email the MD which I have done but got no reply!

I could pay to get the issues fixed myself (I have over 30 issues – not all major issues by any means) but there is a principle here I think?

It has got to the state where I am thinking of just selling up, if I could sell it, as I have paid a high premium for a very small house where the fit and finish is very poor and the support from the developer is none existent.

Any help / guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks

doncarlyon · 03-30-2021, 04:10 AM

May be an idea to involve a solicitor, as them to send a detailed list of issues and request dates that they will be resolved by. If you hear nothing then start court proceedings.

andrew.webber · 03-30-2021, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doncarlyon

May be an idea to involve a solicitor, as them to send a detailed list of issues and request dates that they will be resolved by. If you hear nothing then start court proceedings.

Yes thanks for that - it had crossed my mind to do that actually but I guess I am going to have to pay out in some way in any event so \I will wait until the end of the month and then talk with a solicitor.

Other people on the development have issues also but not quite as bad as mine but they seem quite relaxed about when the developer will get things sorted.
I know that the developer has another site lined up after they finish this one and my concern is that they will leave site and then not be even remotely interested in sorting out the issues.

I know that there is this 2 year warranty thing that the NHBC backs up but from what I am told it is not worth the paper it is written on?

Thanks
Andrew

aquazi · 03-30-2021, 04:32 AM

Having working in the construction industry for many years when it comes to new builds its very much pot luck - dependend upon the local contractors they use/ available.

As its a small builder are you sure its NHBC? Sounds like they are using covid as an excuse... I like in a self build estate - and plenty of neighbours have contracts in doing various renovations/ extensions - i think the only time there werent any were back in March last year for 6 weeks or so.

What issue do you have - are they all cosmetic/ easy and cheap fixes? If so i would list them out - put them in writing - you have generally have 2 years to identify any issues (inc new ones) for them to fix them.. and as you only moved in October i can bet you will find a few more within the next year (raised interior tiles, poor sealant, poor pointing while sat in the garden are the most common ones!)

If you can live with them i would wait until a quieter period/ after covid it done. However there is a caveat being if they are a small company it wouldnt be suprising if they were not around this time next year - hence if cheap fixes!

I wouldnt let it detract you from enjoying your new home.. new builds tend to get a lot of stick - people preferring older houses - but having owned a number of old, new and self builds i would always go new/ self build if i had a choice.

aquazi · 03-30-2021, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew.webber

I know that there is this 2 year warranty thing that the NHBC backs up but from what I am told it is not worth the paper it is written on?

The first 2 years will cover cosmetic/ poor fix and finish by the developer - which is supported by NHBC - as an escalation. But this is useful for even items such as poor drainage, blown fence etc.

2-10 years is NHBC - tend to have an excess (check your paperwork) and limited coverage - structural, escape water etc - so if you notice a scratch on the window, or a ridge tile is loose you are on your own.

isleaiw1 · 03-30-2021, 04:49 AM

I am 3.5 years into a new build journey - in my case with a national builder whose name rhymes with Hovis. Its obviously very different - think I am on my 3rd Customer Services Director for example - but I reckon the principle is the same.

My approach all along has been to try and show my frustration but keep them on side. Once you go to the NHBC (remember, financed by the housebuilding industry) then you are at the mercy of building regs and rules and they will opine based on strict facts and not common sense. The same with the solicitor route, you run the risk of a big bill and just entrenched positions....

You cant reject a house in law - I have tried twice! They wont buy mine back and I wont go to the NHBC until I really have to - the fact that the CEO of the builder used to be a NED there makes me feel I might not get a fair hearing.

So I plug away at getting them back, getting more attempts at fixes and we will cross the bridge later of what next. They havent been for a year - three people working from home, 2 kids in the house and very noisy fixes are not compatible. But I have kept the comms open and we are now potentially planning a move out for a few weeks whilst they have a last go at fixing it. If this one doesnt work I will go legal.....after all it will be attempt 5!

What is that saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer..... i treat the builder as my best enemy!

SkyJawa · 03-30-2021, 06:56 AM

All this really cements my resolve that I would never buy new!

isleaiw1 · 03-30-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

All this really cements my resolve that I would never buy new!

There have been tales of woes with new cars too, including BMW. Best not buy one of those either....

If the law on rejection was changed, and its rumoured to be coming, it would be so much easier. People like "Hovis" would have sold 4000 homes in 2016 and bought 3000 back....

So far though we have spent zero ish on maintenance and are about to get a full redecorate for free - as you cant match 3 year old paint....

andrew.webber · 03-30-2021, 08:28 AM

Blimey isleaiw1 you seem to have had a lot of issues then eh!?

I brought new but I am regretting it now but having said that I have brought new before and had great service from the builder.

I just wish I was more handy when it came to DIY and I could get some things done myself!

The issue for me is the total lack of communication from the construction manager - months go by without anything and the problem is that it has made me hate the developer and the house!!

They are definitely using Covid as an excuse but I seem to be in their hands!

I guess that I will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

I am going to put in another official complaint though about the lack of progress / communication, not that it will do me any good but at least it is then documented if I need to take things further later.

Thanks for your suggestions guys

Andrew

isleaiw1 · 03-30-2021, 08:44 AM

The snagging list was quite extensive, and to be fair they have done most of it and fairly quickly and sometimes it only took 2 or 3 attempts....

But we have microcracking from the floors upstairs (3 storey house) which is heard in the rooms below the one you walk across. They have tried a few things, it seems the cause is too much flex in joists which are too far apart (changed in more recent building regs but no doubt NHBC would only comment on what the rules were then) which causes the plaster board below to make the noise..... "Hovis" have blamed British Gypsum who make the plasterboard but I pointed out my contract is with them and if they want to take it all down and replace that is up to them.... apparently no alternative option....

So the battle goes on and we wait for the next statement of works for how they plan to solve it... it wouldnt be so bad if we didnt have a multigenerational house and my grandsons' bedrooms are below mine....

SkyJawa · 03-30-2021, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

There have been tales of woes with new cars too, including BMW. Best not buy one of those either...

Absolutely, current ones not new. Bought 4 new cars my whole life between me and the missus. Pretty unlikely to buy any more new either!

Only way I’d buy a new house is one ive had built and certainly not built from paper/plasterboard! But equally watched enough grand designs to not want to do that either!

isleaiw1 · 03-30-2021, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Absolutely, current ones not new. Bought 4 new cars my whole life between me and the missus. Pretty unlikely to buy any more new either!

Only way I’d buy a new house is one ive had built and certainly not built from paper/plasterboard! But equally watched enough grand designs to not want to do that either!

I've bought 4 brand new houses in my life (and one not new) - I include one as new even though it was a self build as the builder lived in it for 6 months for tax reasons but seemed to only manage a mattress and a kettle in those 6 months.

My conclusion from that small sample...... I never want a 1930s detached with a big garden again.... should you be able to see daylight when you go in the loft? How much repointing is needed? what do you mean, the old part of the house is at a different angle to the new bit...?

Of the 4 new houses - one was a national builder and a starter home back in the 80s - no real issues. One was a small localish developer - no real issues and they were great at sorting stuff and offering cheap options. One was the self build - main build was great but second fix was shit, especially plumbing, guess he was running out of money (hence the sale at a BARGAIN price).

And the latest - race to build, PLC, crap rates for inexperienced builders who werent supervised enough. Never again. Well, until I fall for a fab small place to retire to, and its all of those things. Lets be honest, finding a house in the congested south east with a double garage, parking for 4 cars not in the garage, and in a layout that supported multi generational living, was a tall order and with the same decision to make I would probably buy it again - but with dont tell "hovis". Fact it seems to have gone up between 8 and 10% since we bought it also helps...

aquazi · 03-31-2021, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Only way I’d buy a new house is one ive had built and certainly not built from paper/plasterboard! But equally watched enough grand designs to not want to do that either!

I've owened/ still owned 4 new builds (2 are BTL), 2 renovation jobs (1930 and a 1960) and our current family home was a self build....

The worst new build had 130 snags over 2 years... ranging from leaking showers, windows and needed a section of the roof redone. The best had under 30 snags. Ironically both the best and worst were Bellway - different areas... however maybe i've been fotunate but none of those new builds put me off - and in all cases the site manager has "sorted us out" with bits which we never needed to pay for... which softens the blow.

In all cases of a new builds we have had to compromise on the design/ layout to get a house in the area/ street we want.... which is where a self build comes in...

However once you go self build you a) never want to do it again b) if you are still married at the end of it never be allowed to do it again c) cant afford to do it again!!!

KRS_SN · 03-31-2021, 01:25 PM

I am in my second new build. touch wood no issues so far. When I say that I mean no issues sorting out problems so far.
The second one from a premium developer who builds million pound homes had misaligned front doors so you had a draft and couldn't open front door fully or put a carpet and overall poor paint finish.
Reminds me of Tesla quality control where customer is expected to fund issues and take pain in sorting them out.
What I do know is patience pays.
The builders commission painting teams in some days where they go into various houses to do touch ups double glazing teams on certain days etc.
Ie they won't get a team out just for you but you have to wait until the day they feel its economically viable to hire them to snag fix a few properties.
The radical option is to politely request help on their Facebook or twitter page which many others have found very effective.
Also don't submit the NHBC survey until the last moment if you do and rate them good they have less incentive to help pronto and earn a 5 star rating.

03-30-2021, 04:05 AM	#1
andrew.webber Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 240 Posts Drives: F30 328ise Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: East Midlands iTrader: (0)	New Build House and Developer Issues - Any Legal Actions? I wonder if someone with more knowledge with these matters might be able to point me in the right direction please? Without going into too much detail I brought a new build property last October from a developer that was sold to me by the estate agents as a quality luxury home developer and the properties that they have built previously looked very good but they normally build very large 1-2 million pounds houses and only just 1 or 2 at a time. I have moved into a new build house on a larger development of theirs of about 40 odd houses and maybe this is where a lot of the issues are coming in!? They market themselves as a large luxury house developer but in reality, it is 2 blokes and an admin person. The construction manager, when he actually replies to my emails, says that they have had resource issues due to Covid and has been saying to me since October of last year that he will fix my problems within the next 2 weeks and it never happens. I spoke with the MD at the start of December who apologized and said that they had issues with Covid and he would get the construction manager to fix my issues before Christmas and that did not happen. I spoke with the construction manager 2 weeks ago and again he said that there were low on resource due to Covid but would fix my issues by the end of March and nothing has happened. Now some of this may be true but Covid has not stopped them from working on the next phase of the development over the Road from me at all! I have issues externally with rendering on walls falling off and also issues internally and they are saying that they will not do anything internal due to Covid whilst I am in the property – so I said I would stay out of the house for a day to let them get it and fix water marks etc. from leaks but they never replied. Of course they have contractors working inside and outside of the new properties that they are building. I have spoken with the NHBC who were completely unhelpful saying that I have to give the developer time to fix the issues and that there is nothing set in stone with regards to how long they can take to fix them but I have now been waiting for 5 months. I rang the local council who pointed me to the NHBC and then the independent dispute resolution scheme who said start by lodging a complaint with the developer. I have logged an official complaint with the developer – from looking at their website there have a complaint procedures section that say just email the MD which I have done but got no reply! I could pay to get the issues fixed myself (I have over 30 issues – not all major issues by any means) but there is a principle here I think? It has got to the state where I am thinking of just selling up, if I could sell it, as I have paid a high premium for a very small house where the fit and finish is very poor and the support from the developer is none existent. Any help / guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks Last edited by andrew.webber; 03-30-2021 at 04:32 AM..
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03-30-2021, 04:10 AM	#2
doncarlyon Captain 258 Rep 757 Posts Drives: Megane RS 300 Trophy Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne iTrader: (0)	May be an idea to involve a solicitor, as them to send a detailed list of issues and request dates that they will be resolved by. If you hear nothing then start court proceedings.
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03-30-2021, 04:32 AM	#4
aquazi Major 461 Rep 1,303 Posts Drives: 18 M4C Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Sutton coldfield iTrader: (0)	Having working in the construction industry for many years when it comes to new builds its very much pot luck - dependend upon the local contractors they use/ available. As its a small builder are you sure its NHBC? Sounds like they are using covid as an excuse... I like in a self build estate - and plenty of neighbours have contracts in doing various renovations/ extensions - i think the only time there werent any were back in March last year for 6 weeks or so. What issue do you have - are they all cosmetic/ easy and cheap fixes? If so i would list them out - put them in writing - you have generally have 2 years to identify any issues (inc new ones) for them to fix them.. and as you only moved in October i can bet you will find a few more within the next year (raised interior tiles, poor sealant, poor pointing while sat in the garden are the most common ones!) If you can live with them i would wait until a quieter period/ after covid it done. However there is a caveat being if they are a small company it wouldnt be suprising if they were not around this time next year - hence if cheap fixes! I wouldnt let it detract you from enjoying your new home.. new builds tend to get a lot of stick - people preferring older houses - but having owned a number of old, new and self builds i would always go new/ self build if i had a choice.
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03-30-2021, 04:49 AM	#6
isleaiw1 Lieutenant General 8814 Rep 12,271 Posts Drives: iPace / Mini Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I am 3.5 years into a new build journey - in my case with a national builder whose name rhymes with Hovis. Its obviously very different - think I am on my 3rd Customer Services Director for example - but I reckon the principle is the same. My approach all along has been to try and show my frustration but keep them on side. Once you go to the NHBC (remember, financed by the housebuilding industry) then you are at the mercy of building regs and rules and they will opine based on strict facts and not common sense. The same with the solicitor route, you run the risk of a big bill and just entrenched positions.... You cant reject a house in law - I have tried twice! They wont buy mine back and I wont go to the NHBC until I really have to - the fact that the CEO of the builder used to be a NED there makes me feel I might not get a fair hearing. So I plug away at getting them back, getting more attempts at fixes and we will cross the bridge later of what next. They havent been for a year - three people working from home, 2 kids in the house and very noisy fixes are not compatible. But I have kept the comms open and we are now potentially planning a move out for a few weeks whilst they have a last go at fixing it. If this one doesnt work I will go legal.....after all it will be attempt 5! What is that saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer..... i treat the builder as my best enemy!
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03-30-2021, 06:56 AM	#7
SkyJawa Major General 3719 Rep 8,636 Posts Drives: F10 530d Join Date: May 2014 Location: Hampshire iTrader: (1)	All this really cements my resolve that I would never buy new!
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03-30-2021, 08:28 AM	#9
andrew.webber Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 240 Posts Drives: F30 328ise Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: East Midlands iTrader: (0)	Blimey isleaiw1 you seem to have had a lot of issues then eh!? I brought new but I am regretting it now but having said that I have brought new before and had great service from the builder. I just wish I was more handy when it came to DIY and I could get some things done myself! The issue for me is the total lack of communication from the construction manager - months go by without anything and the problem is that it has made me hate the developer and the house!! They are definitely using Covid as an excuse but I seem to be in their hands! I guess that I will see what happens in the next couple of weeks. I am going to put in another official complaint though about the lack of progress / communication, not that it will do me any good but at least it is then documented if I need to take things further later. Thanks for your suggestions guys Andrew
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03-30-2021, 08:44 AM	#10
isleaiw1 Lieutenant General 8814 Rep 12,271 Posts Drives: iPace / Mini Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	The snagging list was quite extensive, and to be fair they have done most of it and fairly quickly and sometimes it only took 2 or 3 attempts.... But we have microcracking from the floors upstairs (3 storey house) which is heard in the rooms below the one you walk across. They have tried a few things, it seems the cause is too much flex in joists which are too far apart (changed in more recent building regs but no doubt NHBC would only comment on what the rules were then) which causes the plaster board below to make the noise..... "Hovis" have blamed British Gypsum who make the plasterboard but I pointed out my contract is with them and if they want to take it all down and replace that is up to them.... apparently no alternative option.... So the battle goes on and we wait for the next statement of works for how they plan to solve it... it wouldnt be so bad if we didnt have a multigenerational house and my grandsons' bedrooms are below mine....
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03-31-2021, 01:25 PM	#14
KRS_SN Major General 13598 Rep 5,228 Posts Drives: IX,G07 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 X7 [10.00] X5 [8.50] IX [8.00]	I am in my second new build. touch wood no issues so far. When I say that I mean no issues sorting out problems so far. The second one from a premium developer who builds million pound homes had misaligned front doors so you had a draft and couldn't open front door fully or put a carpet and overall poor paint finish. Reminds me of Tesla quality control where customer is expected to fund issues and take pain in sorting them out. What I do know is patience pays. The builders commission painting teams in some days where they go into various houses to do touch ups double glazing teams on certain days etc. Ie they won't get a team out just for you but you have to wait until the day they feel its economically viable to hire them to snag fix a few properties. The radical option is to politely request help on their Facebook or twitter page which many others have found very effective. Also don't submit the NHBC survey until the last moment if you do and rate them good they have less incentive to help pronto and earn a 5 star rating.
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