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      06-04-2020, 09:18 PM   #1
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G22 press photo vs G82 leak photo

Separate grilles look good to me.
Left/right side of the bumper make it looks much wider
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      06-04-2020, 09:55 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Nomana View Post
Separate grilles look good to me.
Left/right side of the bumper make it looks much wider
What's up with the headlights on the G82? They seem to be longer and have an extra 3rd element on the inside? Or is this photoshop/reflections?
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      06-04-2020, 09:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
What's up with the headlights on the G82? They seem to be longer and have an extra 3rd element on the inside? Or is this photoshop/reflections?
It's probably the angle & reflection
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      06-05-2020, 01:35 AM   #4
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What's up with the headlights on the G82? They seem to be longer and have an extra 3rd element on the inside? Or is this photoshop/reflections?
Wide angle/barrel distortion.

I suspect it is to blame for 99% of the reasons why the G82 here looks rather ugly while I personally really like the look of the G22.

Until we get a picture with correct proportions it’s impossible to judge which looks the best. What this great leak does give us is a lot of G8X unique design elements which is a lot but you can’t judge how attractive or not it is from this photo.

The G82 is comparable to 17mm here and the G22 the 200mm.

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      06-05-2020, 04:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Wide angle/barrel distortion.

I suspect it is to blame for 99% of the reasons why the G82 here looks rather ugly while I personally really like the look of the G22.

Until we get a picture with correct proportions it’s impossible to judge which looks the best. What this great leak does give us is a lot of G8X unique design elements which is a lot but you can’t judge how attractive or not it is from this photo.

The G82 is comparable to 17mm here and the G22 the 200mm.
Exactly this. While this leak gives us a good idea of what's going on with the grille on the G8x, we'd preferably reserve judgement until we see some proper photos.
Or better yet, until we see it in person, as to eliminate any sort of lens distortion.
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      06-05-2020, 10:48 AM   #6
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Yea people in the other thread were comparing this potato-cam wide angle lens leak of the G82 to the press release photos of the F82.

I get if the large grills aren't aesthetically for you but you can't compare trash pics to perfectly edited press pics.
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      06-06-2020, 07:44 AM   #7
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Recall the horrible reactions to this car: https://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1074249

Now I think the car is pretty well respected/liked, no?

I think we're seeing a similar thing play out
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      06-06-2020, 09:04 AM   #8
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The M definitely looks more aggressive, I like it.
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      06-06-2020, 09:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
Recall the horrible reactions to this car: https://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1074249

Now I think the car is pretty well respected/liked, no?

I think we're seeing a similar thing play out
Still looks same to me, never liked the styling
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      06-06-2020, 11:49 AM   #10
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Lens distortion corrected:

Last edited by Celestion; 06-06-2020 at 12:38 PM..
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      06-06-2020, 05:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Celestion View Post
Lens distortion corrected:
Car still look 30ft long with a 20ft hood, which from the mules we know is not the proper dimensions
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      06-06-2020, 05:23 PM   #12
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Lens distortion corrected:
Unsure if worse or better
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      06-06-2020, 07:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by InTheseUncertainTimes View Post
Unsure if worse or better
It’s not attractive either way for me. If the car was attractive we would know by now. You shouldn’t need special cameras and lenses to know if the car is ugly or not.
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      06-13-2020, 09:47 PM   #14
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I've looked at this everyday to see if my opinion would change. I still do not love it, and can not justify spending $80K+ on something I do not love, but I really think the rest of the car is great (aside from the steering wheel being a bit large), this just seems easily correctable.

I can not imagine everyone at BMW was on board with this design, and I feel like there has to be some sort of contingency plan in place if it is not received well. An LCI with alternative front bumper, or a way to add something to make this look a lot better. I just can't see this go a full production run without a major change to the front end.
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      06-14-2020, 02:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
I've looked at this everyday to see if my opinion would change. I still do not love it, and can not justify spending $80K+ on something I do not love, but I really think the rest of the car is great (aside from the steering wheel being a bit large), this just seems easily correctable.

I can not imagine everyone at BMW was on board with this design, and I feel like there has to be some sort of contingency plan in place if it is not received well. An LCI with alternative front bumper, or a way to add something to make this look a lot better. I just can't see this go a full production run without a major change to the front end.
The only way that front end gets better is if it gets rid of the pig snout.
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      06-14-2020, 09:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
I've looked at this everyday to see if my opinion would change. I still do not love it, and can not justify spending $80K+ on something I do not love, but I really think the rest of the car is great (aside from the steering wheel being a bit large), this just seems easily correctable.

I can not imagine everyone at BMW was on board with this design, and I feel like there has to be some sort of contingency plan in place if it is not received well. An LCI with alternative front bumper, or a way to add something to make this look a lot better. I just can't see this go a full production run without a major change to the front end.
If that is the case, hopefully it can be retrofit at the time to pre-LCI models...not without a significant cost I would imagine, but it is what it is.

At least the one thing the M model has going for it is that the grill comes all the way down to the lip and eliminates that goofy smiley face look that the regular 4 series has going on. That alone makes it look 100x better and more aggressive, even if you don't like the big grilles.
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      06-14-2020, 02:29 PM   #17
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G82 definatly looks better than the G22, but they're still both Nissan Juke level ugly
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      06-14-2020, 08:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OF Hero View Post
If that is the case, hopefully it can be retrofit at the time to pre-LCI models...not without a significant cost I would imagine, but it is what it is.

At least the one thing the M model has going for it is that the grill comes all the way down to the lip and eliminates that goofy smiley face look that the regular 4 series has going on. That alone makes it look 100x better and more aggressive, even if you don't like the big grilles.
Agreed the M model is a bit more palatable. Big grills I think would grow on me, it is the shape of the grill and how the 4 series bumper overall looks so flat yet rounded on the edges, it is an awkward shape.

This is complete speculation, but I am wondering if BMW designed two different bumpers that can fit this car. If the risky design was not well received then, they could maybe start with the secondary bumper at some point. They make so many cars and so many parts, if a small aftermarket company can come up with something, I feel like BMW could plan for something ahead of time. They have to have known this was a big risk, and you usually hedge a big bet. Unfortunately since SUVs sales are more important, maybe that is their hedge.

It has been a couple of days and they have not removed any of the negative posts on instagram, even the ones dropping f bombs, this is a first.
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      06-16-2020, 12:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
Agreed the M model is a bit more palatable. Big grills I think would grow on me, it is the shape of the grill and how the 4 series bumper overall looks so flat yet rounded on the edges, it is an awkward shape.

This is complete speculation, but I am wondering if BMW designed two different bumpers that can fit this car. If the risky design was not well received then, they could maybe start with the secondary bumper at some point. They make so many cars and so many parts, if a small aftermarket company can come up with something, I feel like BMW could plan for something ahead of time. They have to have known this was a big risk, and you usually hedge a big bet. Unfortunately since SUVs sales are more important, maybe that is their hedge.

It has been a couple of days and they have not removed any of the negative posts on instagram, even the ones dropping f bombs, this is a first.
While I get the hope, the cost of parallel tracking this type of development and the supply chain planning to do a quick switch over would be astronomical and unheard of. No way finance or any management board would approve of that. The decision was made ~2 years ago and they are stuck with what they got. If they were planning to change it for the LCI, they need to start essentially now.
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      06-16-2020, 10:06 PM   #20
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While I get the hope, the cost of parallel tracking this type of development and the supply chain planning to do a quick switch over would be astronomical and unheard of. No way finance or any management board would approve of that. The decision was made ~2 years ago and they are stuck with what they got. If they were planning to change it for the LCI, they need to start essentially now.
As I suggested, my hope is that this is already planned. I don't think the costs would be astronomical. There are LCIs for most models already, I don't think this would be that different. I did not suggest they do this after a week. Also, as I suggested this is used as a hedge against a risky design. What good does saving a bit of money in R&D by not having a contingency plan on a risky model do when you put your entire bankroll on one bet that the public love something drastically different than what they are accustomed to, there is an impact to net income from losing sales/revenue as well, it isn't just about saving money.

Just a side note, corporate finance and management boards typically do not approve/disapprove one part being changed on one of a couple dozen models. They usually approve overall budgets by department/business unit and company(an FP&A group would likely generate budgets by vehicle and roll it up for board approval). They could care less about a bumper, as long as you stay within your overall budget from an expense standpoint and are able to meet or exceed sales expectations. Even when looking at in on a model by model basis(each model having its own P&L), you would just budget for the LCI over the life of the vehicle (say 5 years, and beginning in year 3). You absolutely can get this approved even if there is some additional cost, because you recognize the necessity to keep revenue and sales momentum in the middle of the cycle, without it I dont know how you project steady sales beginning in year 3. One way you can get an expense approved is by showing corresponding revenue increases.

The ONLY thing that I am suggesting that is done differently here from the past is that the LCI grill be changed, while in the past it has just been lights and other similar smaller changes. As long as the parts that bolt onto the vehicle are the same dimensions, I don't think it is that much of a reach.

Last edited by CityLife; 06-16-2020 at 10:20 PM..
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      06-16-2020, 10:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
While I get the hope, the cost of parallel tracking this type of development and the supply chain planning to do a quick switch over would be astronomical and unheard of. No way finance or any management board would approve of that. The decision was made ~2 years ago and they are stuck with what they got. If they were planning to change it for the LCI, they need to start essentially now.
As I suggested, my hope is that this is already planned. I don't think the costs would be astronomical. There are LCIs for most models already, I don't think this would be that different. I did not suggest they do this after a week. Also, as I suggested this is used as a hedge against a risky design. What good does saving a bit of money in R&D by not having a contingency plan on a risky model do when you put your entire bankroll on one bet that the public love something drastically different than what they are accustomed to, there is an impact to net income from losing sales/revenue as well, it isn't just about saving money.

Just a side note, corporate finance and management boards typically do not approve/disapprove one part being changed on one of a couple dozen models. They usually approve overall budgets by department/business unit and company(an FP&A group would likely generate budgets by vehicle and roll it up for board approval). They could care less about a bumper, as long as you stay within your overall budget from an expense standpoint and are able to meet or exceed sales expectations. Even when looking at in on a model by model basis(each model having its own P&L), you would just budget for the LCI over the life of the vehicle (say 5 years, and beginning in year 3). You absolutely can get this approved even if there is some additional cost, because you recognize the necessity to keep revenue and sales momentum in the middle of the cycle, without it I dont know how you project steady sales beginning in year 3. One way you can get an expense approved is by showing corresponding revenue increases.

The ONLY thing that I am suggesting that is done differently here from the past is that the LCI grill be changed, while in the past it has just been lights and other similar smaller changes. As long as the parts that bolt onto the vehicle are the same dimensions, I don't think it is that much of a reach.
Yeah, I get that management/finance doesn't approve an individual component. My point was more that the overall budget/design wouldn't have been approved for a parallel track through SOP. There would have been a divergence point (likely around DVT or as late as EVT) where one design/major component would need to be finalized (as you know there are costs, both monetary and time, to source the molds, source the supply, line up capacity requirements, etc.).

Agree that if revenue takes a hit, an emergency injection of capital to fix the issue would 100% get approved.

Re parts that bolt on, while I generally agree with what you are saying, changing the overall bumper design and developing new kidney grills means that there would be additional costs to design, test, and source those components. It's an added cost beyond just modifying the bumper molds and the lights like you noted is usually what's done with LCIs.

I appreciate the response, and I am sure we can go on and on about this process offline if you'd like (I too work in the HW/Component/Auto supply chain side, though as an attorney, so am decently versed in this as well), just didn't have time to write a dissertation on why I thought what you were saying was, while hopeful, likely unrealistic while I was on my way to the bathroom.

Will try to be more detailed in the future.
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      06-17-2020, 02:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Yeah, I get that management/finance doesn't approve an individual component. My point was more that the overall budget/design wouldn't have been approved for a parallel track through SOP. There would have been a divergence point (likely around DVT or as late as EVT) where one design/major component would need to be finalized (as you know there are costs, both monetary and time, to source the molds, source the supply, line up capacity requirements, etc.).

Agree that if revenue takes a hit, an emergency injection of capital to fix the issue would 100% get approved.

Re parts that bolt on, while I generally agree with what you are saying, changing the overall bumper design and developing new kidney grills means that there would be additional costs to design, test, and source those components. It's an added cost beyond just modifying the bumper molds and the lights like you noted is usually what's done with LCIs.

I appreciate the response, and I am sure we can go on and on about this process offline if you'd like (I too work in the HW/Component/Auto supply chain side, though as an attorney, so am decently versed in this as well), just didn't have time to write a dissertation on why I thought what you were saying was, while hopeful, likely unrealistic while I was on my way to the bathroom.

Will try to be more detailed in the future.
I appreciate the response, and definitely will take your word for it, that does make sense. My response was speculating based on other industries I have had exposure to outside of the auto industry. My background is in M&A, so you are definitely more qualified here. Really appreciate the info though, although you may have crushed my hopes a bit.
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