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      03-05-2020, 07:02 AM   #1
4Hockey4
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Autocross Novice School

I haven't done much (80's in a 914 ) and was wondering if anyone has done one of these novice schools. Good event to push your car and get used to ?

https://www.nccbmwcca.org/event/auto...novice-school/

I have stock everything (16' 235i MT), including Pirelli RFT...was thinking about doing this, and if enjoyed then could upgrade tires/brakes for next one.

Do you need to buy helmet for a "parking lot" event ?

Anything else I need to be aware of...

Also - this seems like next step up, on the smaller Summit Point track...would one "novice" event then this be good ?

https://www.nccbmwcca.org/event/hpde...erson-circuit/

Rob

Last edited by 4Hockey4; 03-05-2020 at 08:47 AM..
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      03-05-2020, 09:38 AM   #2
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It is habit forming. Probably safer for the wallet to try crack to see if you like it. The BMWCCA has excellent instruction, so definitely worthwhile; personally I like the HPDE much more than autocross, but best to see what does it for you. Especially for the HPDE, flush your brake fluid beforehand, and start shopping for the next set of tires. Then it's brakes, pads, harnesses, coilovers, camber plates, a short involuntary psychiatric commitment... you get the drift.

It is an activity that rewards doing the reading and research, often on clunky outdated club websites (and lots of good info in these forums). From the NCC page that you linked: "All drivers (and passengers) are required to wear a Snell 2010 or later approved helmet while on course. If you don’t have your own helmet, NCC Autocross has plenty of loaners you can use. "
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      03-05-2020, 12:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Good event to push your car and get used to ?
BMWCCA emphasizes instruction, so the NCC events are sure to be worth attending. There's nothing wrong with going to the HPDE event after the autocross novice school.

BTW, you may have noticed that the autocross event is sponsored by RRT Racing in Sterling, VA. That's a shop worth checking out if you want professional advice re: wheel & tire sizes for your car. You can also inquire of the chief instructors at each event which shops they recommend.

For novice autocross training, I can also recommend the Evolution Performance Driving School (http://evoschool.com/). Their instructors are very good at communicating what they're teaching you; they also tend to be national champions, so you receive a steady stream of what works and what doesn't at the highest level. I went to three of their schools and feel they were well worth it.
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      03-05-2020, 10:58 PM   #4
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I'll be attending the SCCA Starting Line School in Crow's Landing, CA over the weekend. I did a full season last year and think I am familiar enough with the car to get a great deal out of the instruction. I'll report back when it's done.

As an aside, driving to the site and back on RE71R's when it might be cold in the morning or evening (mid 30's, 20% chance of precipitation through Emigrant Gap)...is that as sketchy as the warnings that came with the tire made it seem, or should I be fine?
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      03-06-2020, 07:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230iZTR View Post
As an aside, driving to the site and back on RE71R's when it might be cold in the morning or evening (mid 30's, 20% chance of precipitation through Emigrant Gap)...is that as sketchy as the warnings that came with the tire made it seem, or should I be fine?
My guess is that could be a bit iffy, especially if there's anything on the road surface. The tire will be hard and quite a bit less responsive in both cornering and braking than it would ordinarily be.

You can use your fingernails to get a feel for how relatively soft or hard a tire compound is. If you do this regularly starting when a tire is new, you'll get a feel for the rate at which it hardens and approaches the point where you'll want to change it out for a fresh set.

What I'd wonder about is what driving in those conditions will do to the nature of the tire. That is, will it change the rubber compound such that when driven again in normal temperatures you discover the tire isn't the same as it was before you drove it at very low temperatures.

You might consider calling Tire Rack and asking for their advice. My experience is that it's a bit hit-and-miss calling them with questions like this, but it's possible they have information that's critical to your safety.
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      03-10-2020, 05:19 PM   #6
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So the tires made it across the pass without fuss. The weather cooperated and didn't give me any snow. Lowest ambient temp I saw was 37 deg with only a little bit of damp road from melting snow. Wouldn't recommend driving the RE71Rs in those conditions regularly, but I never thought "I'm about to die" so it wasn't the worst experience of all time.

And the Starting Line School was a great experience, and especially great value for the money. All of the instructors were multiple time national champions in everything from stock, touring, prepared, and modified represented between them.

The morning consisted of a safety brief and tech inspection. From there we broke into groups and did skidpad, figure-8, and slalom. Every station consisted of a baseline, a coached ride along, one with the instructor driving as demonstration, another 2 coached runs, and a final solo run to compare against the baseline.

After lunch we took a guided course walk where they talked is through the strategy for attacking various obstacles. Half of us worked while half ran the course and then switch. Each person got 14 runs at an approximately 30 second (well...in my car) course. The first run was a baseline with no instruction. The next was with the instructor providing feedback. The next two were riding along with the instructor driving to show what the car is capable of in the hands of a title-winning driver. Then we had 5 coached runs trying to improve each time, then they let us loose for 5 solo runs without the instructor as ballast. I improved 16% baseline to finish, and was faster every lap except one where I missed a shift.

Overall, I'd say it was about as much seat time as my entire rookie season, and far more productive. It was ~$350 for the whole day and it was well worth it in instruction alone. It also included free admission to the regional event the following day, a free entry to a Tracknight in America event, a free entry to a national tour event, one year of SCCA membership, and a coupon book with discounts and rebates on helmets, tires, etc. Overall I think the value of the "stuff" alone was net positive against the cost of attending before even accounting for how valuable the instruction was.

If you can attend an SCCA Starting Line School (or similar), do it.
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      05-23-2020, 07:27 PM   #7
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I went to Dominion Race way and did the "beginners" Track Attack. There was 8 cars, but we had a pretty fast group. Real nice 135i track ready, ZR1 (2016 with 2k, real nice ride) GT350 etc.

Top speeds were low on straights, we were focusing on lines and well being on track first time. Hoping to have video of me butchering it lol

Since it was basic and not super pushing it, I left crap tires and worn brakes. It was fine for this...but new bads/fluid/lines and APEX 8.5 with PS4S will make ALL the difference. My 321 WHP is plenty...sure some will catch me on straights, but some opphh up front is needed.

Even with crap tires and meh brakes, fun seeing what the car can do....and not on the roads. Def. will be back and do their autocross/HPRDE.

Oh and ran Sport+ and all the difference for down gearing...was so glad I had MT...

Had a blast and lots of good info here got me going.....
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      05-26-2020, 05:37 PM   #8
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Evolution is a good outfit. I help run and teach the PCA school locally. Take advantage of any opportunity when you can get seat time with experienced instructors. All of the car modifications in the world won't come close to experience and the "driver mod". Auto-x and HPDE are different animals, but a lot of the concepts translate well between the two.

A good helmet is worth the investment. Given the state of COVID 19 right now, you should just bite the bullet and get one. Most autocross clubs require helmets, even though you're just in a parking lot. I've seen some crazy things go down at slower speeds. You would be surprised how quickly things happen when you're quickly transferring weight back-and-forth at <40 mph.
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      05-26-2020, 08:57 PM   #9
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There is an Evolution here in Virginia in July...wont have tires and brakes done yet, but may still go do. End of day, I'll learn a lot regardless of equipment.
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      05-27-2020, 08:02 AM   #10
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Helmet fit is a big factor in on-track comfort, so don't just go with the cheapest (different shapes, and each person is different, so no real 'universal fit' - trying them on (or at least a similar one from the company you are interested in, is necessary (or was for me). If you aren't near a distributor or big shop, you may need to work s/t out with the suppliers.

FWIW, I dealt with Northstar Motorsports and they were very good about sending me different helmets to try, and I returned the ones that did not fit. This may not work now that VCOVID is here, but worth an ask. And Zeckhausen Racing was great for brake advice and supplies (not the cheapest, but well worth it).
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      05-29-2020, 12:29 PM   #11
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Would you go with a newer Snell SA2020 rating ? or is SA2015 good for all/most tracks ?

Not sure we have anything in Richmond, may have to head to NOVA to get.

I need to fit, but is something this simple going to cover tracks and private (Evolution)

https://www.amazon.com/Conquer-SA201.../dp/B01GGPO26K
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      05-29-2020, 12:53 PM   #12
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BMWCCA accepts helmets with Snell 2015 rating.
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      05-29-2020, 05:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Would you go with a newer Snell SA2020 rating ? or is SA2015 good for all/most tracks ?
Helmets are certified every five years, and the certification years have been and are: 2000, 2005, 2010, 2015, 2020, etc.

Most (all?) clubs require that your helmet's certification be no more than ten years old. IIRC, helmets are generally released in the year after their year of certification (i.e., the SA2020s will come to market in 2021), and the clubs allow a grace year for helmet replacement. So the owner of an SA2010 may find that he doesn't need to replace it until 2022.

An SA2015 will be good through 2025 (or, 2026), and an SA2020 will be good through 2030 (or, 2031). For a $170 helmet, it may not matter if you need to replace an SA2015 five years earlier than an SA2020.

I ran one of these (https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/item/s...racing-helmets), so I made sure I was buying ten year's worth of helmet. The difference in sound quality from the Stilo was night and day compared to even expensive helmets that didn't have built-in microphones and earphones; that alone was well worth the upcharge.
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      05-29-2020, 05:36 PM   #14
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Ok I'll have to research - cheapy I posted didn't have mic. Do I need ? Will tracks be using and do you run app with at certain tracks ?

I'd probably like something between $169 and $912
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      05-29-2020, 07:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Ok I'll have to research - cheapy I posted didn't have mic. Do I need ? Will tracks be using and do you run app with at certain tracks ?

I'd probably like something between $169 and $912
Yeah, I get it, I really do. It's a spendy hobby, however you go at it.

------------------------------------

TLDR; You'll know when you need a helmet that eliminates excess noise.

Just don't wait too long, as hearing loss is cumulative. Mine is pretty well shot after a lifetime with long periods spent around loud things.

I valued the Stilo's built-in electronics because for a while I was instructing at the track 50+ days per year. I was in students' cars 4-6 times per day, and would take students out once or twice each day in my race car. That was a lot of time spent soaking up high-decibel noise via an external mike. It didn't help that the quality of the communicator was pretty basic. At some tracks it took an hour for my ears to stop ringing after getting out of the car. I felt I had no choice but to select something better at protecting my hearing.

You're driving a relatively quiet car, and when you're with an instructor you're using his communicator - something like this, I imagine: https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/item/t...ercom/trac-com. Depending upon the tracks you run, you may well find that noise isn't an issue for you. For me, it was principally an issue on sections of track with highly-reflective surfaces right next to the car. Also when being passed by very loud cars, esp. when those reflective surfaces were present. Nearby Armco and aluminum seating were the principal examples; also, concrete walls.
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      05-29-2020, 07:13 PM   #16
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Do you need a mic? Nope.
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      06-24-2020, 04:21 PM   #17
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Since I'm only doing some Evo school and Track Attacks, got a basic SNELL. Fits great and breathing is good even with mask shut...decent looking.

https://www.amazon.com/Conquer-SA201...2DJG69R2J&th=1
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