[R4R]

as some of you might remember i posted last week regarding which car i should take to the ring. well in the end i had to scratch the itch of driving my 335d coupe on the Nordschleife.

hmmmm i was a little dissapointed. OMG i can hear you all proclaiming! well its like this.

power was good and acceleration was as good as i've know it on normal roads. but the tyres, suspension and weight of the car tell everywhere! under hard braking, and changing directions the car was squirming all the time.

don't get me wrong i had fun. the only time i put a stop watch on the car bridge to gantry i clocked 10:01. i dont know if thats good or not. i know that the majority of the time i had my eyes on the rear view mirror. the uber cars on the track are fast and don't take prisoners when passing you.

their closing speed is startling!

realistically it is impossible to get a clean lap. there are too many crashes, stoppages oil spills, pulling off line (to make sure that you don't get shoved in to the barriers).

memorising the circuit is difficult, wondering which bend or set of direction changes is next is bloody frightening!

would i go again... yes. would i take the coupe.... don't know!

over all there were too many accidents, be they bikes with bikes, cars in the gravel, cars in the barriers (saw a Ferrari F430 in the barriers which smashed up both ends) oddest of all was the Imola Red Z4M/// and the E92 M3 that collied with each other after the gantry when the lap was finished. M3 had most body panels warped and the Z4 had the front end smashed in with some rear end damage. point of note for all, if there is collision between cars they call the poilce to the circuit.

one sad point of the day was a lady pillion passanger had to be transported away from the circuit by medical helicopter. track staff said she was alive when she left the circuit......

i did meet another fellow 335d owner who had a DMS remap to 345 and 700 and he said it was quick. he thought that he was doing 9 or 8 minute laps but he had not timed himself! i have no idead how that was possible but i was not going to state this as he was a nice chap.

8 minutes in a standard road car (even with a few extra horses) with stock suspension, tyres and brakes in my opinion is pretty much impossible. i think the ring taxi can do it in 8:15 but that is probably when they are at the start of the queue as a session opens.

Dario

[dxb335d]

Glad you had a great weekend. You did a Trackday in the UK and praised the 335d so much, why did the car disappoint at the ring?

[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by R4R

i think the ring taxi can do it in 8:15 but that is probably when they are at the start of the queue as a session opens.

Dario

The Z4M has done it in 8:15.

Dunno how up to date this is: http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
- the Ring taxi is an M5 isn't it? So 8:13 then.

[mikem]

Originally Posted by 1stKnight

The Z4M has done it in 8:15.

Dunno how up to date this is: http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
- the Ring taxi is an M5 isn't it? So 8:13 then.

1stKnight those are full lap (excluding F1) times so you`d need to deduct around 25-30s for Bridge to Gantry times, meaning around 7.45-7.50 for the Z4M, which is really, really going some. It would need an empty track and a Pro at the wheel. Ring Taxi`s are restricted to around 8.30 Bridge to Gantry times (ie. roughly 9min full laps)

I managed to consistently lap BTG around the 9.50 mark in my 325d, a mapped 335d should be around the 9 min mark with a little track knowledge and a pinch of bravery. I`d expect Carlos to be around the 8.50 mark if he gets chance to time himself (don`t push too hard tho mate ).

Wish I was going again this weekend.

[Hoops]

Dario - i totally hear where you are coming from. The Ring is a very daunting place and will chew you up and spit you off in the blink of an eye if you take your eye off the ball for even a split second. Ive done the Ring about 4 times now, every time on my bike. Im going to the Ring this weekend with some of the boys from here and i am very nervous and apprehensive but equally very much looking forward to it. You MUST give the Ring its upmost respect at all times. Never get cocky and think you know it. 140 plus corners takes a very long time to learn. I certainly cant ever remember more than the first 10 or so corners each time i go before i suddenly go "SHIT, i forgot that blind left over crest!!!" - everytime i go a biker is killed or seriously injured. The hardcore Ringers that are there every day, and i mean EVERY day, just dont give a shit about you and WILL get past you and WILL send shivers down your spine by the way they pass you at incredible speed. Trust me, im an ex bike racer and have done the Ring in very respectable times on my bike, i ride top of the range very high performance bikes that are tuned to the max, im very quick on my bike around the Ring - but that said it never fails to amaze me just how much faster a lot of the guys there really are - they go past me like im out for a quiet sunday run. And forget the fact im on a bike, they power slide past me within an inch of my legs - very very scary!! I will be taking my time when i drive my first lap around the Ring (mainly because i will be in limp mode!!!) - i will enjoy it but i will be shitting myself all the way round. But well done Dario for having the balls to give it a go - youve earned your Ring stripes sir, wear your Ring sticker with pride!!

[booforty]

I would highly recommend against Carlos doing any timing. Otherwise there will be tears! Its his first trip and he needs to take it steady and enjoy the experience. I'm sure the 335d and 335i will be very capable though

[R4R]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Glad you had a great weekend. You did a Trackday in the UK and praised the 335d so much, why did the car disappoint at the ring?

dont get me wrong Carlos, if i had to replace my car tomorrow because it was totally destroyed in a fire i would still buy the same car!!!!

as all 335d drivers will know they are an amazingly capable road car which is not often bettered in most circumstances.

I think the difference between my expirences at Cadwell Park and the Ring differ wildly.

as with any 2-3 mile circuit its relitivly easy to learn over a number of laps. if each lap last less than say 2 minutes then in a 15 minute session again and again you will remember what's next, what position on the road you should be and when to brake for the turn / bend.

out of a group of fast cars / drivers so long as you have consistency in lap times you will get faster and faster as you better understand the circuit.

it follows that you will understand how to position the car on the track, corner apex and exit etc, etc.

so the car is capable of doing a good time on the sweeping Cadwell park circuit.

the Ring is just so different. i had driven it once before in my X5 but not at speed just as a tourist!

the 335d is fast, it has grunt i was able to hold off a couple of CSL's in a short straight in the 3rd/4th gear region. problem was they had better grip and suspension.

the high C of G really does show on long sweeping bends and fast changes in direction, this is then reflected in to the grip of the tyres as the suspension is not capable of keeping the tyres in square contact with the road surface.

its quite simple, its a fast road car without computerised dampers and cup tyres. it it had these it would be an M///

[R4R]

Originally Posted by bmwbailey

Dario - i totally hear where you are coming from. The Ring is a very daunting place and will chew you up and spit you off in the blink of an eye if you take your eye off the ball for even a split second. Ive done the Ring about 4 times now, every time on my bike. Im going to the Ring this weekend with some of the boys from here and i am very nervous and apprehensive but equally very much looking forward to it. You MUST give the Ring its upmost respect at all times. Never get cocky and think you know it. 140 plus corners takes a very long time to learn. I certainly cant ever remember more than the first 10 or so corners each time i go before i suddenly go "SHIT, i forgot that blind left over crest!!!" - everytime i go a biker is killed or seriously injured. The hardcore Ringers that are there every day, and i mean EVERY day, just dont give a shit about you and WILL get past you and WILL send shivers down your spine by the way they pass you at incredible speed. Trust me, im an ex bike racer and have done the Ring in very respectable times on my bike, i ride top of the range very high performance bikes that are tuned to the max, im very quick on my bike around the Ring - but that said it never fails to amaze me just how much faster a lot of the guys there really are - they go past me like im out for a quiet sunday run. And forget the fact im on a bike, they power slide past me within an inch of my legs - very very scary!! I will be taking my time when i drive my first lap around the Ring (mainly because i will be in limp mode!!!) - i will enjoy it but i will be shitting myself all the way round. But well done Dario for having the balls to give it a go - youve earned your Ring stripes sir, wear your Ring sticker with pride!!

thanks for that bmwbailey, i have earnt my ring stripes!

how you go round there on a bike is way beyond me given which track users are the ones that are always injured. brave people indeed!

[booforty]

Glad I've got the computerised dampers and Michelin PS2's then!

[330cdsport]

Good write-up Dario - Cheers.

After reading some of the views/reviews here, the ring definitely seems to be a scary place indeed.

I would defo be very worried about wrecking my car.

I also agree that the 335d can be a bit of a boat at times - unfortunately.

[R4R]

Originally Posted by booforty

Glad I've got the computerised dampers and Michelin PS2's then!

booforty, your car was made for the ring!

the E92 M3's were storming, quick and capable! a good ring junkies choice of vehicle to attack the track with.

good luck.

ps i have posted some tips from another forum that a freind of mine posted it might help you. not on the track, but with all the issues sourounding stoppages and the like.

see his post:

Roaders (01/09/2008)[hr]During our recent trip to the ring we learnt a few lessons that other people may find helpful if they are planning a trip.

When we were there the ring was very busy and there were lots of accidents. On the Saturday the track was closed for 6 hours out of 13 so getting laps done was tricky.

Firstly if you are on the track do your best not to leave. If you do leave the track try to park in the paddock and not on the roads outside. When the ring is open and it's busy there are huge queues on the roads outside the ring of people waiting to get on the track. If you are in the paddock you'll get back on much quicker.

If you finish a lap and the track is closed stay on the track. You can queue on the track for the ticket barrier on the straight. If you go off the track most likely they will have closed the way into the paddock so you have to leave completely then when they re-open you will have a long wait on the road again.
Several times we were going to come off for a rest but when we saw that the ring was closed we stayed on the track and had a break on the track instead. When they re-open you can skip a lot of the on-track queue and come off the track to queue for one of the main ticket barriers.

If you can get there when it opens. We got there at 11 on Saturday and it was closed for ages. On Sunday it was much quieter in the first hour or so and there were fewer accidents. Next time we go we'll be driving straight to Nurburg on Friday night and also staying there on Sunday night to drive back on Monday.

[booforty]

Good tips Dario! Thanks for posting!

[mikem]

Originally Posted by booforty

I would highly recommend against Carlos doing any timing. Otherwise there will be tears! Its his first trip and he needs to take it steady and enjoy the experience. I'm sure the 335d and 335i will be very capable though

Are you woried he might be quicker than you B ?

Carlos, if you don`t crack the 8min mark your a poof.

[booforty]

Yes I am Mike!

Carl is already a poof...

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by mikem

Are you woried he might be quicker than you B ?

Carlos, if you don`t crack the 8min mark your a poof.

!LOL

What does a normal stock m3 do round there?

Originally Posted by booforty

Yes I am Mike!

Carl is already a poof...

OOO er darling


In all honesty guys, im happy going balls out at Snett or any other UK track, the ring i wont be pushing it. Im going just for the experiance.

[mikem]

Stock M3 will be about 6min behind the mapped 335d Carl.

If its dry guys you`ll have a blast, theres soo much grip in the dry its crazy (I can leave my DSC on and the only time I see it flash is exiting the Carousell) if its wet be very careful, its a complete nightmare. Much more fun to turn the T/C off in the wet, go much slower and practise drifting.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by mikem

Stock M3 will be about 6min behind the mapped 335d Carl.

If its dry guys you`ll have a blast, theres soo much grip in the dry its crazy (I can leave my DSC on and the only time I see it flash is exiting the Carousell) if its wet be very careful, its a complete nightmare. Much more fun to turn the T/C off in the wet, go much slower and practise drifting.

Id really like to know what a standard E46 M3 does round there, i think a mapped 335d could achieve a similar time. I wouldnt in my car. Someone lend me there mapped 335d and ill give it a go lol

Ive seen lots of stack pics from dry days though mike

[booforty]

Good and very mature comment Carl, that you are going for the experience. Well done. You will love it.

[Hoops]

"Drifting!!" - dont bloody encourage him Mike for gods sake!!!!

[MattOz]

The key at the Nurburgring is knowing where you are going. Sounds logical and even a bit of a daft comment, but it's certainly true. You need to be 2 or 3 corners ahead in order to get the car positioned correctly. Exactly the same as any circuit really, but just on a much bigger scale.

In an E46 330d, I've lapped pretty consistently between 8m47 and 8m50 BTG. My E39 M5 was slightly quicker at 8m30, and had I more talent the car would've been quicker.

To give you some idea of the compression I was getting with the standard suspension set up, all 4 mudflaps wore through and were scrapped by the end of the weekend. Most of the damage was done at the bottom of the Foxhole! One of my old 330d, minus flaps!



Matt

[mikem]

8.50 is a cracking time, given the power of the E46 330d Matt. I guess a full lap would`ve been around 9.15-9.20 and thats very close to what Sabine Schmidt managed in a TT diesel Jag (9.12 full lap) with about the same power.

[Hoops]

Matt, its all well and good saying you need to be thinking 2 or 3 corners ahead - but thats assuming you know the circuit!!! Ive done a very modest 15-20 laps over 4 separate visits to the Ring and trust me ive no idea what the next 2 or 3 corners are after the first 10 or so corners from the start!!! Best advice anyone can give is drive within your own limits, keep an eye on your mirrors but dont get fixated by them, keep out of the way on the straights so that the fast guys can get past but hold the racing line through the bends regardless of whose looming in your mirrors, regulate your breathing, try and relax as much as possible and most importantly ENJOY!!!