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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) Local Forums UK 330e total indicated range - seems to use bizarre logic......

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      11-16-2019, 01:37 PM   #1
petejigsaw
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330e total indicated range - seems to use bizarre logic......

I've had my 330e for 5 weeks and done 2500 miles. In that time, my charging has been limited to a few occasions due to delays getting work and home chargers installed.

I'm therefore driving on the engine alone a lot if the time, which leads me to becoming increasingly infuriated by the total range indication...... It seems to have a mind of its own, and if your batteries are fully depleted, its accuracy is nothing like my previous 320d, often reducing in total miles far quicker than the car is actually covering the distance.

I filled up with petrol yesterday (battery was at 16 miles), and the range indicator said 358 miles. I assume that is 342 miles on petrol and 16 on battery.

I have driven 131 miles since, with the car set to battery control mode at 70% (around 16 miles). The range indicator now shows 201 miles (15 miles battery). That means that of the original 358 miles, there are 26 miles 'missing', despite the driving all being the same sort of style.

I saw on another post yesterday a range indicator showing 700+ miles, which I find bizarre, as surely the indication should be the total miles it estimates you could drive WITHOUT refuelling - both petrol and charging the battery - otherwise what is the point of it?

If for example you filled the car up with petrol, then only ever drove on electric, the indicator would continue to go up and up and up, which defies any logic.

Does anyone else think there should be a purely 'petrol' range indicator as well as or instead of the combined one?
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      11-18-2019, 07:50 AM   #2
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I've noticed the same. When battery is depleted the consumption is sky high compared to indicated range. Even with the most reserved driving style.

I wonder whether it's not accounting for all the extra weight it's having to pull?
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      11-18-2019, 09:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petejigsaw View Post
I filled up with petrol yesterday (battery was at 16 miles), and the range indicator said 358 miles. I assume that is 342 miles on petrol and 16 on battery.

I have driven 131 miles since, with the car set to battery control mode at 70% (around 16 miles). The range indicator now shows 201 miles (15 miles battery). That means that of the original 358 miles, there are 26 miles 'missing', despite the driving all being the same sort of style.



Does anyone else think there should be a purely 'petrol' range indicator as well as or instead of the combined one?
I'm not following why you are surprised with 'losing miles' after a drive. Range is a rolling calculation, so will vary as you drive, according to consumption.

I'm surprised you haven't seen this before in other vehicles.

One factor which can skew a range at fill up, is what the 'present' consumption was at the time. If you were on a good figure, it will reflect in the initial range setting, which can be very optimistic.

For example, I typically fill up after an easy drive, when my mpg is pretty high, (35mpg) compared with the average (30mpg). I see a really good range, but typically lose the 'extra miles' after driving around at my longer term average. That is totally normal and expected. My range can easily be inflated by over 40 miles, at fill up. My driving style stays the same.

Surely the combined (petrol/electric) range is usable data, at that is your reality.

Last edited by HighlandPete; 11-18-2019 at 09:32 AM..
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      11-18-2019, 09:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
I've noticed the same. When battery is depleted the consumption is sky high compared to indicated range. Even with the most reserved driving style.

I wonder whether it's not accounting for all the extra weight it's having to pull?
As I see it, in that situation you will be worse off than having a 330i. Accelerating more weight costs extra fuel. If you also charge the battery on the move, that is very inefficient.
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      11-19-2019, 05:55 AM   #5
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I agree with you completely, the total indicated range on the 330e is so so stupid. The total indicated range should have been the estimated petrol range (based on the petrol fuel consumption only) + estimated electric range (based on the electric consumption only), but instead BMW decided to make the total indicated range based on the way you drive, so if you drive one month purely on electric mode you get a total indicated range of 800 miles for example, which is ridiculous, because if you suddenly go for a long motorway trip then you don't know what is the real range in that situation, and the range will start dropping very very fast.
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      11-19-2019, 06:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I agree with you completely, the total indicated range on the 330e is so so stupid. The total indicated range should have been the estimated petrol range (based on the petrol fuel consumption only) + estimated electric range (based on the electric consumption only), but instead BMW decided to make the total indicated range based on the way you drive, so if you drive one month purely on electric mode you get a total indicated range of 800 miles for example, which is ridiculous, because if you suddenly go for a long motorway trip then you don't know what is the real range in that situation, and the range will start dropping very very fast.
Absolutely! The combined range is a joke, and really doesn't help when you're on a longer motorway type journey.

That the range is based on the way you drive is fine, but it should have been set to at a range that is possible by using the battery fully and a tank of fuel at an average 'petrol only' consumption rate over say the previous 100 miles, which is more typical of how non-EV range displays work.
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      11-20-2019, 04:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I agree with you completely, the total indicated range on the 330e is so so stupid. The total indicated range should have been the estimated petrol range (based on the petrol fuel consumption only) + estimated electric range (based on the electric consumption only), but instead BMW decided to make the total indicated range based on the way you drive, so if you drive one month purely on electric mode you get a total indicated range of 800 miles for example, which is ridiculous, because if you suddenly go for a long motorway trip then you don't know what is the real range in that situation, and the range will start dropping very very fast.
I sense the frustration, but how is that going to work? What is the baseline? Some default, but meaningless figure, if is isn't calculated from actual use.

Second highlighted point, isn't that what has to happen? You change your driving situation and the range will reflect that very quickly, as it continuously recalculates the consumption, doing so over the last few miles driven. Range for ICE used to be (may still be) based on current driving conditions during the preceding 18 miles/30 kilometers.
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      11-21-2019, 01:44 AM   #8
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Just tried my commute in Hybrid Eco Pro but with the gear selector in M/S which forces the use of the ICE

Range at the start 163 miles
Range at the end 143 miles

It's only a 7 mile journey
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      11-21-2019, 04:40 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
Just tried my commute in Hybrid Eco Pro but with the gear selector in M/S which forces the use of the ICE

Range at the start 163 miles
Range at the end 143 miles

It's only a 7 mile journey
Cold engine? If so, typical range drop to reflect the cold start. Range will level out if driven over decent distance, to match the better mpg.
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      11-21-2019, 05:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I agree with you completely, the total indicated range on the 330e is so so stupid. The total indicated range should have been the estimated petrol range (based on the petrol fuel consumption only) + estimated electric range (based on the electric consumption only), but instead BMW decided to make the total indicated range based on the way you drive, so if you drive one month purely on electric mode you get a total indicated range of 800 miles for example, which is ridiculous, because if you suddenly go for a long motorway trip then you don't know what is the real range in that situation, and the range will start dropping very very fast.
Now having used up one whole full tank on mine I can now see exactly what you mean. Last week when it was delivered brand new with 8 miles on the clock, I filled it up with petrol and it was full charged. It showed a range of around 350 miles, which sounds about right and what my F30 330e would show.

Yesterday, I filled up having averaged around 60mpg over 490 miles, and the range showed 530 miles. This can only be because it expects me to charge as I have been, rather than a reflection of how far I would go with the current "energy" being carried by the car at that moment in time using current driving style. So it's fundamentally NOT an indication of actual range as we would always have understood it to be, and different to how it was shown previously.
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      11-21-2019, 07:04 AM   #11
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but you are running the "battery charge" mode. It consumes more by default, as generator (alternator) has to charge the battery.

if, even "no battery" you will run in Hybrid, you will notice, that battery is a bit charged and actually gives you some support on acceleration etc.
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      11-21-2019, 07:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Now having used up one whole full tank on mine I can now see exactly what you mean. Last week when it was delivered brand new with 8 miles on the clock, I filled it up with petrol and it was full charged. It showed a range of around 350 miles, which sounds about right and what my F30 330e would show.

Yesterday, I filled up having averaged around 60mpg over 490 miles, and the range showed 530 miles. This can only be because it expects me to charge as I have been, rather than a reflection of how far I would go with the current "energy" being carried by the car at that moment in time using current driving style. So it's fundamentally NOT an indication of actual range as we would always have understood it to be, and different to how it was shown previously.
Interesting Terry. How is the range display shown 'different' than previously? (Than the F30 330e I assume).

What you say about the range on your fill, has to be about right on your recent consumption 'history'. What I can't see is how it could show any other figure. What would the OBC calculate the anticipated range on, other than recent history?

The anticipated range of the current 'energy' carried on-board, can apply to a straight forward ICE car. It is only based on history. Not how we might drive our next trip, say in a different set of conditions, where the range could possibly halve.
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      11-21-2019, 08:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Now having used up one whole full tank on mine I can now see exactly what you mean. Last week when it was delivered brand new with 8 miles on the clock, I filled it up with petrol and it was full charged. It showed a range of around 350 miles, which sounds about right and what my F30 330e would show.

Yesterday, I filled up having averaged around 60mpg over 490 miles, and the range showed 530 miles. This can only be because it expects me to charge as I have been, rather than a reflection of how far I would go with the current "energy" being carried by the car at that moment in time using current driving style. So it's fundamentally NOT an indication of actual range as we would always have understood it to be, and different to how it was shown previously.
Interesting Terry. How is the range display shown 'different' than previously? (Than the F30 330e I assume).

What you say about the range on your fill, has to be about right on your recent consumption 'history'. What I can't see is how it could show any other figure. What would the OBC calculate the anticipated range on, other than recent history?

The anticipated range of the current 'energy' carried on-board, can apply to a straight forward ICE car. It is only based on history. Not how we might drive our next trip, say in a different set of conditions, where the range could possibly halve.
The difference is that with the F30 it would be reflective of your recent driving style (like any ICE car) using carried energy (petrol range of say 300 miles plus 13 miles electric).

The G20 is reflective of petrol load plus numerous electric recharging episodes taking place, not just the single one. So it doesn't reflect current range with current energy load.

My assumption is that it's using the overall combined consumption rate (which has been juiced by multiple recharges). This makes sense in some ways, but it's also flawed.
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      11-21-2019, 09:13 AM   #14
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I've just returned from an 87 mile round trip.

Fully charged the range was 142 miles to empty and at the end of my journey the range shown is 72 miles remaning.

142-87=55 miles remaining

So for that type of journey it seems more accurate based on the driving style used?
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      11-21-2019, 10:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Now having used up one whole full tank on mine I can now see exactly what you mean. Last week when it was delivered brand new with 8 miles on the clock, I filled it up with petrol and it was full charged. It showed a range of around 350 miles, which sounds about right and what my F30 330e would show.

Yesterday, I filled up having averaged around 60mpg over 490 miles, and the range showed 530 miles. This can only be because it expects me to charge as I have been, rather than a reflection of how far I would go with the current "energy" being carried by the car at that moment in time using current driving style. So it's fundamentally NOT an indication of actual range as we would always have understood it to be, and different to how it was shown previously.
Exactly, for me it is difficult to explain this "problem" in English since it is not my main language. You managed to explain it more clearly.
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      11-27-2019, 02:49 AM   #16
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Started my 7.5 mile commute this morning with 1 mile left on the battery.

Range started at 173 miles to empty

7.5 miles later and it had dropped to 140 miles!
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      11-27-2019, 05:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
Started my 7.5 mile commute this morning with 1 mile left on the battery.

Range started at 173 miles to empty

7.5 miles later and it had dropped to 140 miles!
Ouch, so with a flat battery you will likely get around 40 actual miles for an indicated 173, where it is trying to keep some sort of charge in the battery.

Is there no petrol only mode where it isolates the battery completely?
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      11-27-2019, 12:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
Started my 7.5 mile commute this morning with 1 mile left on the battery.

Range started at 173 miles to empty

7.5 miles later and it had dropped to 140 miles!
Mine does this also. I think it holds the range achievable with a full battery until the battery is empty, I would suggest this is a software issue that they probably aren't aware of, or it is improved in newer software. I'm on 07/2019.55 and mine does the same
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      11-27-2019, 05:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
Started my 7.5 mile commute this morning with 1 mile left on the battery.

Range started at 173 miles to empty

7.5 miles later and it had dropped to 140 miles!
Still interest to read what happens to the range, once you add more miles in the same trip. Does it level out, as it would with just an engine? Then reflect what you would expect to get over distance on petrol power.

BTW, were you in a charging mode while driving?
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      11-28-2019, 02:17 AM   #20
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or absolutely hammering it for 7.5 miles :P
It's no different to my current Merc C220 (i'm still waiting on delivery of my 330e) - it'll easily do 700 miles + out a tank - but when I'm pottering about on short distance driving (e.g it's 5 miles to train station and back) - then it falls through the floor.

Had a range of 129 miles indicated yesterday morning - and all i did were 2 trips to the train station and back and now range is indicating 59! Fair flies back up though if I get back out onto the motorway or longer distances.
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      11-28-2019, 03:20 AM   #21
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Ok, so I did a 31 mile journey this morning, starting with 16 miles battery. Drove in Eco-Pro mode and the battery emptied about 21 miles in. Stopped at destination, got back in, range said 460.

Drive less than a mile and it had dropped to 438, then after 5 miles, it was down to 383. So that's 77 mile drop in range for driving 5 miles sedately in Eco-Pro mode.

Tell me that's not bonkers...... 🙄
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      11-28-2019, 12:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petejigsaw View Post
Ok, so I did a 31 mile journey this morning, starting with 16 miles battery. Drove in Eco-Pro mode and the battery emptied about 21 miles in. Stopped at destination, got back in, range said 460.

Drive less than a mile and it had dropped to 438, then after 5 miles, it was down to 383. So that's 77 mile drop in range for driving 5 miles sedately in Eco-Pro mode.

Tell me that's not bonkers...... ��
it is, it makes absolutely no sense
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