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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, and European Delivery    Ordering 2020 next week, a bit of help please...

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      08-15-2019, 01:23 PM   #1
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Ordering 2020 next week, a bit of help please...

So I am going to place my order for a new 2020 next week for a Sept build and after searching the price and lease sticky above it really talks mainly about leasing and I am not leasing. I have purchased three BMW's from my dealer previously and am not sure what % to ask for off on a order of this size, 5%, 7% , 10% off? of msrp? I don't want to beat their brains in as they have been good to me over the years, but I don't want to get hosed either!

Any thoughts or advise is appreciated, Thanks.
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      08-15-2019, 03:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Motorin Mark View Post
So I am going to place my order for a new 2020 next week for a Sept build and after searching the price and lease sticky above it really talks mainly about leasing and I am not leasing. I have purchased three BMW's from my dealer previously and am not sure what % to ask for off on a order of this size, 5%, 7% , 10% off? of msrp? I don't want to beat their brains in as they have been good to me over the years, but I don't want to get hosed either!

Any thoughts or advise is appreciated, Thanks.
I ordered mine the beginning of August, got 10% off, which is a great deal considering it being a 2020.
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      08-15-2019, 07:16 PM   #3
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beat their brains, who cares? whose to say they aren't hosing you, and meanwhile you keep coming back, car after car?
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      08-15-2019, 08:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
beat their brains, who cares? whose to say they aren't hosing you, and meanwhile you keep coming back, car after car?
I'm with TrevorM3. I leased 3 BMWs in a row from the same dealer, referred 2 people that leased high end vehicles from them, and when it came time to the 4th they were a complete no-show: terrible offers on several models I was considering. Not an ounce of goodwill on their part to make a sale to a repeat customer. I wasn't even asking them to give me the best offer, just competitive enough.

They had been near the top in terms of offers on those 3 cars when they were relatively small and up and coming, but then got "fat" and it's business as usual. I still use their service dept, which I'm happy with, but that's a separate arm.

Point being: look out for your own best interest here, they're certainly doing that for themselves.
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      08-15-2019, 09:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
I'm with TrevorM3. I leased 3 BMWs in a row from the same dealer, referred 2 people that leased high end vehicles from them, and when it came time to the 4th they were a complete no-show: terrible offers on several models I was considering. Not an ounce of goodwill on their part to make a sale to a repeat customer. I wasn't even asking them to give me the best offer, just competitive enough.

They had been near the top in terms of offers on those 3 cars when they were relatively small and up and coming, but then got "fat" and it's business as usual. I still use their service dept, which I'm happy with, but that's a separate arm.

Point being: look out for your own best interest here, they're certainly doing that for themselves.
Agreed, Just want to give them first shot since I have purchased from them before, being in retail sales myself I realize the crap they deal with every day. I thought I would approach them first with "I am ordering a new M5 today and if you can give me X% off of msrp we can proceed, if not no hard feelings". I'm just not sure what the % off of msrp should be, thus looking for some input from you all before I go in. Thanks.
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      08-15-2019, 09:07 PM   #6
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Yes, definitely look out for yourself first. 10% is the magic number I say and if you can that you should be good. Even with 10% off they still making a good amount. You going with Comp or base model?
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      08-16-2019, 06:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorin Mark View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
I'm with TrevorM3. I leased 3 BMWs in a row from the same dealer, referred 2 people that leased high end vehicles from them, and when it came time to the 4th they were a complete no-show: terrible offers on several models I was considering. Not an ounce of goodwill on their part to make a sale to a repeat customer. I wasn't even asking them to give me the best offer, just competitive enough.

They had been near the top in terms of offers on those 3 cars when they were relatively small and up and coming, but then got "fat" and it's business as usual. I still use their service dept, which I'm happy with, but that's a separate arm.

Point being: look out for your own best interest here, they're certainly doing that for themselves.
Agreed, Just want to give them first shot since I have purchased from them before, being in retail sales myself I realize the crap they deal with every day. I thought I would approach them first with "I am ordering a new M5 today and if you can give me X% off of msrp we can proceed, if not no hard feelings". I'm just not sure what the % off of msrp should be, thus looking for some input from you all before I go in. Thanks.
Yup, all good. I'm with the other posters: if I was shopping for a 2020 order, I'd be firm on 10%.

Good luck!
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      08-16-2019, 09:04 AM   #8
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Yes, definitely look out for yourself first. 10% is the magic number I say and if you can that you should be good. Even with 10% off they still making a good amount. You going with Comp or base model?
Base model. 600HP is enough for me.
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      08-16-2019, 09:22 AM   #9
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7-8 % is very reasonable
10 % can be done but is somewhat extreme on 2020 models and you might have to go out of town
agree with others that you have to look after your interest , but also having a good relationship with a dealer can pay dividend and actually is in your own interest.
couple of examples
you have a problem late Friday and heading out of town and the dealer is ready to close, you call SA and they wait for you after hours and let you chose a loaner
You take loaner and bring it back 5 days later with a thousand miles on it....
that happened to me couple of times and have multiple other examples ..
bottom line , they will take care of you and go out of their way to be accommodating .. that to me is worth something
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      08-16-2019, 10:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
7-8 % is very reasonable
10 % can be done but is somewhat extreme on 2020 models and you might have to go out of town
agree with others that you have to look after your interest , but also having a good relationship with a dealer can pay dividend and actually is in your own interest.
couple of examples
you have a problem late Friday and heading out of town and the dealer is ready to close, you call SA and they wait for you after hours and let you chose a loaner
You take loaner and bring it back 5 days later with a thousand miles on it....
that happened to me couple of times and have multiple other examples ..
bottom line , they will take care of you and go out of their way to be accommodating .. that to me is worth something
On a 20' I would go 6-7% which is close to 1000 over invoice. Not sure you're going to get better than that. 10% doesn't happen until cars have been sitting on the lot for a year or so.

I never talk to the dealers about percentages. I just tell them I want the car for 500 over invoice. They will usually do it for lesser cars. For an M5 1000 over is a great deal.
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      08-16-2019, 12:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
On a 20' I would go 6-7% which is close to 1000 over invoice. Not sure you're going to get better than that. 10% doesn't happen until cars have been sitting on the lot for a year or so.

I never talk to the dealers about percentages. I just tell them I want the car for 500 over invoice. They will usually do it for lesser cars. For an M5 1000 over is a great deal.
10% is actually happening before cars being on the lot, just need to find the right dealer and be patient.
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      08-17-2019, 01:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
7-8 % is very reasonable
10 % can be done but is somewhat extreme on 2020 models and you might have to go out of town
agree with others that you have to look after your interest , but also having a good relationship with a dealer can pay dividend and actually is in your own interest.
couple of examples
you have a problem late Friday and heading out of town and the dealer is ready to close, you call SA and they wait for you after hours and let you chose a loaner
You take loaner and bring it back 5 days later with a thousand miles on it....
that happened to me couple of times and have multiple other examples ..
bottom line , they will take care of you and go out of their way to be accommodating .. that to me is worth something
100% agree with this. Also people are so fixated on constantly pushing the dealer to drop and drop price because so and so got an extra 1% off etc or because the program changed the following month but then cry if it's not in their favor. My cousin being one of them. Constantly texted the CA every month while his car was in production saying "MF got better! Did the rebate improve?" Well.... now that the rebate dropped he all of a sudden didn't want the CA to update the numbers again and wanted to be locked into the previous months program. Lesson learned. His price went up. He just took delivery. Now some of you guys might say "oh he should've just threatened to walk away then," but it furthers my point that you gotta understand both sides at some point lol. People wanna destroy the dealer but then complain if it backfires....
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      08-17-2019, 01:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
7-8 % is very reasonable
10 % can be done but is somewhat extreme on 2020 models and you might have to go out of town
agree with others that you have to look after your interest , but also having a good relationship with a dealer can pay dividend and actually is in your own interest.
couple of examples
you have a problem late Friday and heading out of town and the dealer is ready to close, you call SA and they wait for you after hours and let you chose a loaner
You take loaner and bring it back 5 days later with a thousand miles on it....
that happened to me couple of times and have multiple other examples ..
bottom line , they will take care of you and go out of their way to be accommodating .. that to me is worth something
Service and sales are different departments - you can have a great relationship with the SA without having bought as much as a Snickers bar from the dealership. Perhaps overpaying on multiple high end vehicles will put you on the GM's radar and allow pulling some strings, but that's an expensive way to obtain favors. Just my $.02.
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      08-17-2019, 01:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Juice17 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
7-8 % is very reasonable
10 % can be done but is somewhat extreme on 2020 models and you might have to go out of town
agree with others that you have to look after your interest , but also having a good relationship with a dealer can pay dividend and actually is in your own interest.
couple of examples
you have a problem late Friday and heading out of town and the dealer is ready to close, you call SA and they wait for you after hours and let you chose a loaner
You take loaner and bring it back 5 days later with a thousand miles on it....
that happened to me couple of times and have multiple other examples ..
bottom line , they will take care of you and go out of their way to be accommodating .. that to me is worth something
100% agree with this. Also people are so fixated on constantly pushing the dealer to drop and drop price because so and so got an extra 1% off etc or because the program changed the following month but then cry if it's not in their favor. My cousin being one of them. Constantly texted the CA every month while his car was in production saying "MF got better! Did the rebate improve?" Well.... now that the rebate dropped he all of a sudden didn't want the CA to update the numbers again and wanted to be locked into the previous months program. Lesson learned. His price went up. He just took delivery. Now some of you guys might say "oh he should've just threatened to walk away then," but it furthers my point that you gotta understand both sides at some point lol. People wanna destroy the dealer but then complain if it backfires....
I don't think anyone wants to destroy the dealer and in fact you can't. Dealers don't transact if they're not gaining something from it, and occasionally selling one unit at a loss but making incentives across the fleet, or avoiding more writedowns/loss, is a net win. I wouldn't worry about them .

It sounds like your cousin learned a lesson in risk taking - they should've realized the tradeoff/risk they were making and looked at the entire equation. But they didn't walk away so presumably still satisfied with the final deal.
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      08-17-2019, 09:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by _Juice17 View Post
100% agree with this. Also people are so fixated on constantly pushing the dealer to drop and drop price because so and so got an extra 1% off etc or because the program changed the following month but then cry if it's not in their favor. My cousin being one of them. Constantly texted the CA every month while his car was in production saying "MF got better! Did the rebate improve?" Well.... now that the rebate dropped he all of a sudden didn't want the CA to update the numbers again and wanted to be locked into the previous months program. Lesson learned. His price went up. He just took delivery. Now some of you guys might say "oh he should've just threatened to walk away then," but it furthers my point that you gotta understand both sides at some point lol. People wanna destroy the dealer but then complain if it backfires....
Completely agree, that's why I wanted a few opinions. Lets face it, I'm buying a $120K car which is kinda silly in the first place so 1 or 2 percent just is not the end of the world as I like my dealer's both sales and service dept's. Like I said, I also work in retail sales and the guys that come into our store and just beat our brains in so we make no money..........Sure we sell to them, but please just take your merchandise and leave, don't ask us for any favors. Every person alive should be required to work in the military for at least a year and then in retail sales for a year of their life, tons to be learned in those two professions.
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      08-18-2019, 06:20 AM   #16
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you guys got into retail, so you should know when an informed buyer comes in, it's game over.

so, i think of it like this, for every 10 morons that come in looking for a car, 8 will end up taking it in the ass, and 2 will beat the dealer down because they know what they are doing. So in my mind, the dealer still wins.
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      08-18-2019, 11:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
Service and sales are different departments - you can have a great relationship with the SA without having bought as much as a Snickers bar from the dealership. Perhaps overpaying on multiple high end vehicles will put you on the GM's radar and allow pulling some strings, but that's an expensive way to obtain favors. Just my $.02.
I think you are missing the point
I understand that sales and service are different departments
but dealers like people can do the basic or " go out of your way" to be helpful
I'll give you another example of basic vs " go out of their way to do things for you "
I had an air suspension message on my E63 last year. Took it to dealer , the service guy said , sorry but we have only one loaner left which is a GLA .. I was going to take it
the manager saw that I am there and just chatting to her, she was aware of situation
she said no way , I'll let this happen
she instructed service guy to pull a brand new E class and put it in loaner program. My car did take a week to get part from Germany
so I could have drove the GLA but certainly the E class was much nicer to drive
Do you tip more at a restaurant if you have great service !!!
all what I am saying is sometimes , you leave some money on the table and usually it will pay dividend some way or another ???
if you want to put a value on it
1 week rental of GLA is probably 250 at hertz
1 week rental of E class is probably 600
so that is 350 dollars in one instance
so 1-2 % extra off the cars is 1000-2000 dollars

Last edited by M3PGH; 08-18-2019 at 01:01 PM..
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      08-18-2019, 01:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
Service and sales are different departments - you can have a great relationship with the SA without having bought as much as a Snickers bar from the dealership. Perhaps overpaying on multiple high end vehicles will put you on the GM's radar and allow pulling some strings, but that's an expensive way to obtain favors. Just my $.02.
I think you are missing the point
I understand that sales and service are different departments
but dealers like people can do the basic or " go out of your way" to be helpful
I'll give you another example of basic vs " go out of their way to do things for you "
I had an air suspension message on my E63 last year. Took it to dealer , the service guy said , sorry but we have only one loaner left which is a GLA .. I was going to take it
the manager saw that I am there and just chatting to her, she was aware of situation
she said no way , I'll let this happen
she instructed service guy to pull a brand new E class and put it in loaner program. My car did take a week to get part from Germany
so I could have drove the GLA but certainly the E class was much nicer to drive
Do you tip more at a restaurant if you have great service !!!
all what I am saying is sometimes , you leave some money on the table and usually it will pay dividend some way or another ???
if you want to put a value on it
1 week rental of GLA is probably 250 at hertz
1 week rental of E class is probably 600
so that is 350 dollars in one instance
so 1-2 % extra off the cars is 1000-2000 dollars
Don't think I'm missing any point. I said it's possible to pull some strings by being a repeat customer and possibly overpaying each time. So you got an E class instead of GLA loaner for a week? Ok, I'm not really impressed and wouldn't care myself. Is it a nice gesture? Sure. It's possible they were going to put that E class into the loaner fleet anyway, or you could've gotten the same treatment by being a long time service/parts customer. Service department makes a good amount of money servicing cars, it's not a volunteer arm. They have incentive to keep you servicing your car there. Again, it's not really related to the sales dept.

Tips at a restaurant is a false analogy. You're tipping for service received, and service isn't a fungible product like cars. The way I tip dealers for good sales experience isn't by overpaying for the car. It's by sending referrals, giving them highest marks on BMW surveys (which feed into their AVP incentive structure), and recommending them on various forums (or the like).

To each his own though. By the way, by overpaying I'm not talking about $1k difference on a $100+k car. I'm talking about dealers that are 3+% away from top of the market. So the cost delta is more like $4-5k and above. I'll take the GLA for a week over an E class (by the way - who cares? It's not like you got an S class or some AMG) and keep my $5k to allocate to more valuable situations.

I've shopped BMWs and other brands for a long time now. It's a cutthroat business. Selling the same product. A dealer won't think twice taking advantage of uninformed customers - it's not a business where favors keep the lights on. Nor will they lose money to keep you around - why should I?
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      08-21-2019, 08:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
On a 20' I would go 6-7% which is close to 1000 over invoice. Not sure you're going to get better than that. 10% doesn't happen until cars have been sitting on the lot for a year or so.

I never talk to the dealers about percentages. I just tell them I want the car for 500 over invoice. They will usually do it for lesser cars. For an M5 1000 over is a great deal.
And how do you know what invoice is? Take them at their word?
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      08-21-2019, 09:30 PM   #20
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And how do you know what invoice is? Take them at their word?
They will show you the invoice if you work a deal for a cost over invoice
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      08-21-2019, 10:58 PM   #21
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10% should be doable on a new order. It likely won't be quick/easy to find but it's there.
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      08-22-2019, 10:29 AM   #22
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I don't understand where everyone is getting 10% from and thinking they can get that when my invoice on my last few cars clearly has shown that the cars MSRP's are marked up 6-8% above invoice. Getting a car at 10% off would be below invoice and unless there is a BMW rebate involved I don't see how it's possible.

If you buy a car under 50K you can probably get 300-500 above invoice. When the cars are more expensive and in more demand you will be looking at 1000 or more over invoice in most cases. And then there is the case where I spent 50k extra to get the first Aston Martin DBS in the CA...haha

Seriously, am I missing something? The only thing I can think of is if you guys are going off of dealer added addendum sheets where they mark the car up above MSRP, going off of dealer added addendum's, factory rebates, or the car has been on the lot for 3 years and they are willing to take a loss.
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