[Zanity]

So reviews are coming out for the 2020 Toyota Supra. Same B58 engine, almost same interior, identical sat nav system, and all the dealer price increase from the hype just doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't people get a 440i, for daily use, I doubt people can even feel a difference, o wait, yes they can, the BMW is faster out of the box with more horsepower lol. Unless you're rich and goto the track all the time, you won't even take advantage of the balance and handling, but if you are rich and goto the track all the time, why would you pick this over the ocean of better track day cars ? So I think Toyota missed the mark on this one.

[MmmmmM2]

I agree. It just doesn't make sense. If it was built and the engine was a twin turbo inline 6 from Toyota then sure. All this is is a BMW Z4 hard top in disguise.

[outofphase]

I think Toyota missed out on a huge opportunity with the new Supra IMO -- they could've made something truly special and more in-line (no pun intended) with the MKIV Supra's original ability to offer incredible performance at an affordable price.

The problem (and reasoning, if I had to hazard a guess) is that Toyota's primary objective is sales, like any other large manufacturer. Given that Toyota is generally known for, at least in the states, producing reliable economy cars, their new Supra makes complete sense from a sales perspective. I don't think it's a completely fair comparison to compare it to the GTR as many people do, because even though the MKIV Supra was in the same class of performance as the R33 Skyline, remember that outside of America, Nissan never stopped making Skylines -- they even continued to sell them in the US (badged under Infiniti).

While I would've loved a more GTR-like twin-turbo offering with supercar performance, Toyota wouldn't have been able to pull it off at the Supra's current price-point. Given the choice between selling 8,000-10,000 $55k cars a year (rough Z4 numbers when it was originally introduced) or 1,000-2,000 $100k cars a year, it starts to make more sense to me. I think 1,000-2,000 would still be optimistic anyway if it weren't for the Supra name. Already at ~$55k the majority of customers are going to know what the Supra is, but at this price point it'll likely attract a modest number of buyers who are just intrigued by it but aren't hardcore Supra fans. At $100k I just don't see anyone spending that amount on a Toyota without at least already being fans of the Supra name.

While I'm bummed I do still feel like it is a step in the right direction. And who knows, maybe a handful of years down the line we'll see a high performance trim/variant emerge that DOES have supercar performance.

[NYG]

I understand Toyota though... not a verbatim quote but to summarize didn't the chief designer of the Supra state that they wanted to stick to the I6 heritage of the Supra but did not have an I6 available and that BMW makes the ultimate I6 so there was no point of wasting $$$ on R&D? That being said, the Z4 looks way better and it's a BMW....

I don't see why any Toyota "purist" would be upset about it. The B58 is a MONSTER and this isn't the first time BMW made the engine for another brand. I mean the greatest car ever made (McLaren F1) is powered by a BMW engine.

[NormanConquest]

Toyota a corporation not a begger on the street playing tunes upon request. They invested as much money they felt they can safely invest with minimum risk and maximum potential profit.

[MT4life]

Love the car, dig BMW involvement, found out no MT and the car died for me. Next

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MT4life

Love the car, dig BMW involvement, found out no MT and the car died for me. Next

Yeah but you know that the majority of the Fast and Furious kids who want this car have no idea how to drive a manual and wouldn't bother learning how to drive one thus ending up with the automatic anyway. It made no sense for Toyota to offer a MT for the very limited remaining purists out there.

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by NYG

Yeah but you know that the majority of the Fast and Furious kids who want this car have no idea how to drive a manual and wouldn't bother learning how to drive one thus ending up with the automatic anyway. It made no sense for Toyota to offer a MT for the very limited remaining purists out there.

I’m a fast and furious kid. I was in early 20s when Paul drove his Supra and it was a proper MT like it should have been. And my Supra in late 90s was also MT.

So an automatic Supra regardless of whose engine is in it doesn’t work for me
Flappy pedals are for play station. Did you mean Grand Turismo instead of F&F

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MT4life

I’m a fast and furious kid. I was in early 20s when Paul drove his Supra and it was a proper MT like it should have been. And my Supra in late 90s was also MT.

So an automatic Supra regardless of whose engine is in it doesn’t work for me
Flappy pedals are for play station. Did you mean Grand Turismo instead of F&F

Yeah but back then there were a whole lot more manuals around. They're nearly extinct at this point.

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by NormanConquest

Toyota a corporation not a begger on the street playing tunes upon request. They invested as much money they felt they can safely invest with minimum risk and maximum potential profit.

Yet they researched decades to create the LFA from a white drawing board, a car that sold at a profit deficit still at $400,000+.

[floridaorange]

I watched most of this. Left me feeling like it would be fun to track but not own.

This article confirms it is basically a BMW Z4. https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/revi...supra-preview/

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by NYG

I understand Toyota though... not a verbatim quote but to summarize didn't the chief designer of the Supra state that they wanted to stick to the I6 heritage of the Supra but did not have an I6 available and that BMW makes the ultimate I6 so there was no point of wasting $$$ on R&D? That being said, the Z4 looks way better and it's a BMW....

I don't see why any Toyota "purist" would be upset about it. The B58 is a MONSTER and this isn't the first time BMW made the engine for another brand. I mean the greatest car ever made (McLaren F1) is powered by a BMW engine.

I don't think people would have cared if it was a v6 but Toyota doesn't use a turbo engine except on the LS. The hybrid setup in the LC coupe would have been awesome though making it a Lexus derived product with more horsepower. They could have gone with something that competes with the NSX and gone more upmarket or undercut them on price and compete with camaros and mustangs. This car is also smaller than the old one. A 2 + 2 like the old car would have been nice. AWD hybrid option as well as MT would entertain the purist. I feel like there are too many budget constraints for r and d just offering one model vs two engine and transmission options in the past.

[NormanConquest]

Originally Posted by Zanity

Yet they researched decades to create the LFA from a white drawing board, a car that sold at a profit deficit still at $400,000+.

That was a prestige project, a car that they are expecting to sell only a few 100. You can't compare it to a car they are expecting to sell 50,000+ units

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by NormanConquest

That was a prestige project, a car that they are expecting to sell only a few 100. You can't compare it to a car they are expecting to sell 50,000+ units

You're missing my point, which is Toyota can do what ever they want, they can afford it. But they chose to go with the cheap out route on the iconic supra.

[madmortar]

Is there a thread out there discussing the changes Toyota made to the B58 when they dropped it in the Supra?

BTW, I think it looks amazing and I have no hate.

[ooshnoo]

Here's Doug's review on why the Supra kinda sucks
:

[Zanity]

IMO if I had to get a 2 seater FR hardtop, I'd take a 370Z (335hp) over the new supra (332hp), use the left over money for mods, (no price hike due to hype) which will beat the stock supra hands down.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/2020-t...-ar184484.html

But both cars kinda suck... best option is still 340i/440i.

[AK415]

For the same length, I rather get a m240i or even an used M2. Why a re-badged coupe version of Z4?

Originally Posted by Zanity

IMO if I had to get a 2 seater FR hardtop, I'd take a 370Z (335hp) over the new supra (332hp), use the left over money for mods, (no price hike due to hype) which will beat the stock supra hands down.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/2020-t...-ar184484.html

But the best option is still a 340i/440i.

370z has no torque though, you will have to SC or TC the 370z to keep up with the B58. I drove my lady's Q50 with the VQ37HR yesterday, omg that difference in torque!

P.S. my 435i has Dinan stage 2 with a cat back exhaust

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by AK415

For the same length, I rather get a m240i or even an used M2. Why a re-badged coupe version of Z4?

370z has no torque though, you will have to SC or TC the 370z to keep up with the B58. I drove my lady's Q50 with the VQ37HR yesterday, omg that difference in torque!

That's why I said "If I had to get a 2 seater FR hardtop", M240i, M2, the new M340i etc, all these cars are way better options than the 370Z or Supra.

[AK415]

Originally Posted by Zanity

That's why I said "If I had to get a 2 seater FR hardtop", M240i, M2, the new M340i etc, all these cars are way better options than the 370Z or Supra.

ahaha my apologies, wasn't really reading.

Speaking of 2 seater, hands down to the mighty MX-5 though. Drove a NA (pop eye) before and it handled really like a go-kart.

JDM coupe there is a Q60. That 3.0L V6 twin turbo is pretty smooth

[Zanity]

Originally Posted by AK415

ahaha my apologies, wasn't really reading.

Speaking of 2 seater, hands down to the mighty MX-5 though. Drove a NA (pop eye) before and it handled really like a go-kart.

JDM coupe there is a Q60. That 3.0L V6 twin turbo is pretty smooth

Yes, the new MX-5 is bad ass, from afar the rear end looks like a lotus!

Q60's V6 is the same as 370Z tho, so it's just kinda meh for me. I don't like the last gen look of the interior for Q60 too, it reminds me of the cheap chrysler interiors.

[AK415]

Originally Posted by Zanity

Yes, the new MX-5 is bad ass, from afar the rear end looks like a lotus!

Q60's V6 is the same as 370Z tho, so it's just kinda meh for me. I don't like the last gen look of the interior for Q60 too, it reminds me of the cheap chrysler interiors.

What is funny is that Lotus uses a Toyota engine!

The new generation Q60 and facelift Q50 no longer uses 370Z's VQ35HR, they use a VR30DDTT, a Twin turbo 3.0L V6 vs 370Z's NA 3.7L V6, and there is a Red Sport version on the Q50 and Q60 that pushes 400hp at the crank, if not more...

But I agree, interior sucks. Our 2015 Q50 has the same interior, if it wasn't for the VQ37's reliability and a 360 degree parking camera, we would not get it. Well she is happy so I am happy