sp-engineering

TSM330i · 07-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Let me just start by saying that I was the first customer to actually place an order for the Advan RS wheels.

I have submitted a complaint to the Better Business Bureau today because I didn't get a response from their "customer service" after repeated attempts.

Here is the complaint I submitted:
I placed an order for a set of wheels and adapter rings from SP Engineering in late March and have email confirmation that the order was placed on March 31. Half of the payment for the wheels and adapters was taken at that time. It took several months for the wheels to come in (I received them on 6/17). At that time the second half of the payment was taken to have the account paid in full. The adapter rings were not included in this shipment and had to be sent at a later date as they did not make it on the ship from Japan to the US with the wheels. I waited another month till the adapter rings came in to California at SP Engineering.
When the adapter rings landed on 7/15 at SP Engineering I got a call from Edward Liu telling me he had them and if I wanted them I would have to pay and extra $176 with shipping to get them. I told him that I'd already paid for them when the wheels were ordered and when the wheels were shipped. He said the prices had gone up and the price I was charged was below their cost. I was not told the price was going up for 3-1/2 months and they knew it then. I was lead to believe up until July that the charges for the wheels with the adapters were the quoted and charged price. Essentially if I didn't pay the $176 extra they would have resold the rings to someone else and I would not have gotten the rings I was promised and paid for.
This is bad business practice. A customer should not have to pay for this mistake. No one in customer serice responded

Resolution Sought: I would like SP Engineering to credit my accoun $176 for the adapter rings I was suppose to receive and paid for.
Date Problem Started: 07/15/2008
Date of Transaction: 03/26/2008
Amount in Dispute: $176.00
Invoice Number: XXXX
Complaint Type: Selling Practices
Product or Service: They sell aftermarket performance parts for automobiles.

I spoke to Edward @ SP-Power when he called to tell me the rings had arrived and he said that Advan had two price sheets that he wasn't aware of at the time he quoted me. One for JDM and the other for BMW (not my problem). He said that he made no money on my order (again, how is this my problem?).

Edward clearly knew the price problem for the better part of 3 months and didn't say anything to me. It was put to me that if I didn't want to pay for the rings there would be no hard feelings on his part and he would just resell them. I needed the rings so I could complete my car.

When I placed the order I put a 50% deposit down on 3/26 (wheels and rings) and when only the wheels arrived I paid the balance in full (again, the wheels and rings). I was thinking that when the rings arrived they would just be shipped out to me and that's it.

To me, it's a business principle here. You screwed up - the customer shouldn't have to pay. To top it off, "customer service" never even responded to my complaint - twice.

And to think I put out all that free advertising for them to help their sales along. You'll notice that all my posts referencing them have been deleted.

BMW! · 07-25-2008, 01:25 PM

Lets hear how SPP would clear this up...

TSM330i · 07-25-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW!

Lets hear how SPP would clear this up...

I will let everyone know what happens. The only reason I posted this here was because I gave them plenty of chances to make this right to no avail. I even told them that I would probably go to the BBB and still no response.

I'm a firm believer in giving a vendor a chance to make things right rather than jump on the board right away and bashing them.

to_riffic · 07-25-2008, 01:48 PM

edit: MY BAD!!!!! sorry guys

Tam@SupremePower · 07-25-2008, 03:09 PM

You guys are referring to Ed@SP Engineering correct? I just wanted to know so it doesn't harm us at Supreme Power.

nicosusername · 07-25-2008, 03:14 PM

lol yeah this is sp-engineering not SUPREME POWER

should change the title

AU335 · 07-25-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E92to997

lol yeah this is sp-engineering not SUPREME POWER

should change the title

+1 very confusing. Took me a second to realize he wasnt talking about Supreme Power

krnshinsa · 07-25-2008, 03:28 PM

supreme power are good people =]

blakjack23 · 07-25-2008, 03:32 PM

When I first read this I thought he was talking about Supreme Power too. On a side note....I still love my Supreme CSL's everytime I see my car

Tam@SupremePower · 07-25-2008, 04:37 PM

Thanks For The Support Guys!

Crimson92 · 07-25-2008, 05:20 PM

i used to think ed was a stand up guy but he tried ripping me off and i will no longer do business with him nor sp
SupremePower ftw

sparkyg · 07-25-2008, 05:26 PM

Kind of a sticky issue, if there was an honest mistake made and that the adapters should be paid for then that's life, free would be nice, yeah, but if everyone else pays well it just kinda sucks you were not told.

Getting stuff for free when a vendor makes a mistake is great sure, but should not be the golden reference for customer service. People do make mistakes.

If you paid them too much, can they just keep the money or would you expect it back?

Hopefully you guys can come to an equitable solution.

GL

san~man · 07-25-2008, 05:38 PM

The OP paid for the rings and the shipping according to the quote provided by the retailer (if I'm reading correctly). If the retailer later learns of a pricing mistake on his/her part, should the consumer be responsible for the added charges?

I think not, since an agreed price had already been reached

Jmo

TSM330i · 07-25-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by san~man

The OP paid for the rings and the shipping according to the quote provided by the retailer (if I'm reading correctly). If the retailer later learns of a pricing mistake on his/her part, should the consumer be responsible for the added charges?

I think not, since an agreed price had already been reached

Jmo

Bingo! Sparkyg - I agree with you, but when he took my 50% deposit it was for an agreed price for wheels and rings. When he took the other half of the payment, he said nothing to me about pricing issues and knew it then. He didn't say anything to me until a month later. That sounds shady to me.

Yes, Ed @ SP-Power, NOT Supreme Power.

san~man · 07-25-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkyg

Kind of a sticky issue, if there was an honest mistake made and that the adapters should be paid for then that's life, free would be nice, yeah, but if everyone else pays well it just kinda sucks you were not told.

Getting stuff for free when a vendor makes a mistake is great sure, but should not be the golden reference for customer service. People do make mistakes.

If you paid them too much, can they just keep the money or would you expect it back?

Hopefully you guys can come to an equitable solution.

GL

I don't believe he's asking for them for "free," considering that he already paid a deposit for the rims/rings. He's only asking to complete his purchase at the previously agreed upon price.

In essence, he's saying that SP-Eng should eat the "added" cost of shipping, since it wasn't in the original quote they both agreed upon (and on which the deposit was made).

Again, JMO.

Alex@AKMotorwerk · 07-26-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU335

+1 very confusing. Took me a second to realize he wasnt talking about Supreme Power

THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT SUPREME POWER!

Just wanted to clear that up a bit more... it is another company called sp-engineering. Supreme Power has EXCELLENT customer service.

bolinp78 · 07-26-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW325xi

Bingo! Sparkyg - I agree with you, but when he took my 50% deposit it was for an agreed price for wheels and rings. When he took the other half of the payment, he said nothing to me about pricing issues and knew it then. He didn't say anything to me until a month later. That sounds shady to me.

Yes, Ed @ SP-Power, NOT Supreme Power.

Once any "material" consideration has been made (which it was... 50% deposit), the it is now a contractual agreement. As long as you have the invoice with the previous prices somewhere in writing and the fact that you paid the 50% deposit then you have a legally binding agreement. That's just simple contract law.

TSM330i · 07-26-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolinp78

Once any "material" consideration has been made (which it was... 50% deposit), the it is now a contractual agreement. As long as you have the invoice with the previous prices somewhere in writing and the fact that you paid the 50% deposit then you have a legally binding agreement. That's just simple contract law.

Yes, I do have all the paperwork and that's why I went to the BBB.

I tried to explain to Edward that you can't charge me extra for the rings when I already paid for them. It's not my fault he quoted me an incorrect price. He needed to eat it and I'd be singing his praises like I had been for the last 3 months.

edzilla · 07-26-2008, 10:30 PM

Hey everyone,

I guess you're all awaiting my reply. This is the first and last thing I'm going to say about this situation. I feel that if I keep getting into it more, it won't help the situation. The OP has already gone so far as to file a complaint to the BBB, so I see no sense in reasoning anymore.

I am not at the office right now to get hard dates on each specific transaction.

Rob's order was placed with me sometime late March, a little after I had started advertising the sale of Advan wheels. Rob was my first customer of these wheels and I was greatful for that.

Since 2006, Advan has used the same price sheet for all their wheels, regardless of fitment, BMW, Ferrari, Japanese Import, Porsche, etc...

This is where the mixup came about. Late march is when I placed the order for Rob, I received a new price sheet dated March 28th, 2008. I was under the assumption that we had made it in time before the new price sheet came out, detailing brand new costs, specific for the BMW and colors.

3 months goes by... I was not at all aware of the price increase as Rob had stated in his previous posts. Please believe me on this one Rob.

The wheels arrived, and to my surprise I was billed under the new price structure. I spoke to my importer regarding the order date, etc, and if he could bill me out under the old structure. He said he could not, and unfortunately Japan could care less about 1 set of wheels.

Knowing that Rob was urgent and anxious for his wheels, I shipped them out with the price that we had agreed upon. Whatever his 50% deposit was back in March, I charged the remaining 50% exactly prior to shipping out the wheels.

At the time the wheels arrived, the center cap adapters had not arrived.

Rob received the wheels, called me and gave me nothing but praise. I appreciate his kind words. Another month goes by and finally the caps arrive.

This is where I as a vendor and business did make a mistake, by not telling him the pricing issue earlier.

I wrote an email to Rob regarding the situation and that I would have to charge him extra for the center cap adapters. I told him that what I could do for him is offer him the caps at cost, and not at the price we had originally agreed upon during his initial deposit.

Rob was quite upset about the situation, and I totally understand his side. Unfortunately this industry has gone through some turbulant times as of late with rediculous price increases due to material costs, and fuel costs. I kindly told him that if he did not want the rings, I would be ok to stock these. I was not going to force anything upon him. We spoke for a bit on the phone and he told me that he still wanted the rings. I shipped them out right away that day and gave him a tracking number. Rob's tone on the phone seemed upset, however it did sound like we had come to a resolution regarding the situation.

In all honestly, I have already lost money on this transaction for the original purchase of the wheels along with letting the center cap adapters go at cost.

I came upon this thread because another vendor had kindly linked this to me.

You could say that I'm trying to do damage control, but I understand that what I have done has probably caused detriment to my name on this board. I've been working on web forums for the past 8 years and I've seen my share of shadyness. Please understand that it is not plausible that I would try to screw someone over or steal their money and ruin the reputation of SP Engineering for $176.00. If you guys do feel the need to pass the word along not to do business with me, I understand. However, please specify that it is I, Edward Liu, not SP Engineering. Hell, I pay more a month in sponsorship rates, no reason why I would want to ruin my chances to do business with anyone in this community.

If anyone is still willing to give me a shot, that's great. I am an avid JDM enthusiast as most of you can see by the products I'm advertising on this site.

Either way, I apologize to Rob, I did the best that I could, and I would never try to harm or intentionally cause you inconvenience.

If anyone has questions, please PM me for further details.

Thank you.

Ed @ SP-POWER
626-333-5398

bolinp78 · 07-27-2008, 10:20 AM

If the rings were on the same invoice and a part of the same transaction as the wheels, then you legally must sell him the rings for the price on the invoice.

If the rings were on a separate invoice, and no consideration was made for that second invoice, then I guess he is not required to sell at the previously agreed upon price.

It's really that simple.

TSM330i · 07-27-2008, 01:44 PM

We are probably not going to hear from Edward again. What he said is all true and I believe that he didn't know of the pricing issue until June (still a month BEFORE I got the rings).

Again, nothing noted or said by Edward that the rings weren't paid for along with the wheels, which they were.

If this entire issue is costing SP less than they pay for internet marketing in one month, then why wouldn't they just eat the $176 for their reputation's sake?

The main reason I'm sticking to my guns on this is because I PAID for the rings to start with and pricing changed 3-1/2 months later (when I found out). You just can't do that.

Edward - just refund my money for the rings I had paid for with our initial transaction and there'll be no hard feelings.

cyba · 07-28-2008, 04:26 AM

isnt Alex the owner of SP? I met him 10 years back when his company wasnt that big and he seems like a cool guy maybe talk to him and see what he can do.

07-25-2008, 12:58 PM	#1
TSM330i 2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport 878 Rep 3,699 Posts Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chester Springs, PA iTrader: (2)	sp-engineering - UPDATE - money refunded Let me just start by saying that I was the first customer to actually place an order for the Advan RS wheels. I have submitted a complaint to the Better Business Bureau today because I didn't get a response from their "customer service" after repeated attempts. Here is the complaint I submitted: I placed an order for a set of wheels and adapter rings from SP Engineering in late March and have email confirmation that the order was placed on March 31. Half of the payment for the wheels and adapters was taken at that time. It took several months for the wheels to come in (I received them on 6/17). At that time the second half of the payment was taken to have the account paid in full. The adapter rings were not included in this shipment and had to be sent at a later date as they did not make it on the ship from Japan to the US with the wheels. I waited another month till the adapter rings came in to California at SP Engineering. When the adapter rings landed on 7/15 at SP Engineering I got a call from Edward Liu telling me he had them and if I wanted them I would have to pay and extra $176 with shipping to get them. I told him that I'd already paid for them when the wheels were ordered and when the wheels were shipped. He said the prices had gone up and the price I was charged was below their cost. I was not told the price was going up for 3-1/2 months and they knew it then. I was lead to believe up until July that the charges for the wheels with the adapters were the quoted and charged price. Essentially if I didn't pay the $176 extra they would have resold the rings to someone else and I would not have gotten the rings I was promised and paid for. This is bad business practice. A customer should not have to pay for this mistake. No one in customer serice responded Resolution Sought: I would like SP Engineering to credit my accoun $176 for the adapter rings I was suppose to receive and paid for. Date Problem Started: 07/15/2008 Date of Transaction: 03/26/2008 Amount in Dispute: $176.00 Invoice Number: XXXX Complaint Type: Selling Practices Product or Service: They sell aftermarket performance parts for automobiles. I spoke to Edward @ SP-Power when he called to tell me the rings had arrived and he said that Advan had two price sheets that he wasn't aware of at the time he quoted me. One for JDM and the other for BMW (not my problem). He said that he made no money on my order (again, how is this my problem?). Edward clearly knew the price problem for the better part of 3 months and didn't say anything to me. It was put to me that if I didn't want to pay for the rings there would be no hard feelings on his part and he would just resell them. I needed the rings so I could complete my car. When I placed the order I put a 50% deposit down on 3/26 (wheels and rings) and when only the wheels arrived I paid the balance in full (again, the wheels and rings). I was thinking that when the rings arrived they would just be shipped out to me and that's it. To me, it's a business principle here. You screwed up - the customer shouldn't have to pay. To top it off, "customer service" never even responded to my complaint - twice. And to think I put out all that free advertising for them to help their sales along. You'll notice that all my posts referencing them have been deleted. __________________ 2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course 2015 GTI S 2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar Last edited by TSM330i; 10-17-2008 at 09:34 AM.. Reason: Money refunded
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07-25-2008, 01:25 PM	#2
BMW! Captain 66 Rep 653 Posts Drives: e92 Join Date: May 2008 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	Lets hear how SPP would clear this up...
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07-25-2008, 01:48 PM	#4
to_riffic Lieutenant General 3024 Rep 13,763 Posts Drives: rwd Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (38)	edit: MY BAD!!!!! sorry guys __________________ ~loud noises~ Last edited by to_riffic; 07-25-2008 at 03:30 PM..
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07-25-2008, 03:09 PM	#5
Tam@SupremePower 165 Rep 2,184 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 e92 335i [7.00]	You guys are referring to Ed@SP Engineering correct? I just wanted to know so it doesn't harm us at Supreme Power.
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07-25-2008, 03:14 PM	#6
nicosusername First Lieutenant 107 Rep 300 Posts Drives: various Join Date: May 2008 Location: OC iTrader: (0)	lol yeah this is sp-engineering not SUPREME POWER should change the title
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07-25-2008, 03:28 PM	#8
krnshinsa Captain 71 Rep 606 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: el ay iTrader: (2)	supreme power are good people =]
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07-25-2008, 03:32 PM	#9
blakjack23 Major 33 Rep 1,074 Posts Drives: like a bat out of hell Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minneapolis, MN iTrader: (3) Garage List '06 325i [0.00]	When I first read this I thought he was talking about Supreme Power too. On a side note....I still love my Supreme CSL's everytime I see my car __________________ '06 325i - AT (bite me!) - Jet Black - Black leatherette - Aluminum Trim - Blacklines - 189's - M3 Spoiler
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07-25-2008, 04:37 PM	#10
Tam@SupremePower 165 Rep 2,184 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 e92 335i [7.00]	Thanks For The Support Guys!
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07-25-2008, 05:26 PM	#12
sparkyg Brigadier General 142 Rep 3,523 Posts Drives: A6 Allroad Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oil Country iTrader: (5)	Kind of a sticky issue, if there was an honest mistake made and that the adapters should be paid for then that's life, free would be nice, yeah, but if everyone else pays well it just kinda sucks you were not told. Getting stuff for free when a vendor makes a mistake is great sure, but should not be the golden reference for customer service. People do make mistakes. If you paid them too much, can they just keep the money or would you expect it back? Hopefully you guys can come to an equitable solution. GL
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07-25-2008, 05:38 PM	#13
san~man Tired 131 Rep 2,673 Posts Drives: BMW-less Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (7)	The OP paid for the rings and the shipping according to the quote provided by the retailer (if I'm reading correctly). If the retailer later learns of a pricing mistake on his/her part, should the consumer be responsible for the added charges? I think not, since an agreed price had already been reached Jmo __________________ BMW-less
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07-26-2008, 10:30 PM	#19
edzilla Lieutenant 35 Rep 400 Posts Drives: 03 M3 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern California iTrader: (6)	Hey everyone, I guess you're all awaiting my reply. This is the first and last thing I'm going to say about this situation. I feel that if I keep getting into it more, it won't help the situation. The OP has already gone so far as to file a complaint to the BBB, so I see no sense in reasoning anymore. I am not at the office right now to get hard dates on each specific transaction. Rob's order was placed with me sometime late March, a little after I had started advertising the sale of Advan wheels. Rob was my first customer of these wheels and I was greatful for that. Since 2006, Advan has used the same price sheet for all their wheels, regardless of fitment, BMW, Ferrari, Japanese Import, Porsche, etc... This is where the mixup came about. Late march is when I placed the order for Rob, I received a new price sheet dated March 28th, 2008. I was under the assumption that we had made it in time before the new price sheet came out, detailing brand new costs, specific for the BMW and colors. 3 months goes by... I was not at all aware of the price increase as Rob had stated in his previous posts. Please believe me on this one Rob. The wheels arrived, and to my surprise I was billed under the new price structure. I spoke to my importer regarding the order date, etc, and if he could bill me out under the old structure. He said he could not, and unfortunately Japan could care less about 1 set of wheels. Knowing that Rob was urgent and anxious for his wheels, I shipped them out with the price that we had agreed upon. Whatever his 50% deposit was back in March, I charged the remaining 50% exactly prior to shipping out the wheels. At the time the wheels arrived, the center cap adapters had not arrived. Rob received the wheels, called me and gave me nothing but praise. I appreciate his kind words. Another month goes by and finally the caps arrive. This is where I as a vendor and business did make a mistake, by not telling him the pricing issue earlier. I wrote an email to Rob regarding the situation and that I would have to charge him extra for the center cap adapters. I told him that what I could do for him is offer him the caps at cost, and not at the price we had originally agreed upon during his initial deposit. Rob was quite upset about the situation, and I totally understand his side. Unfortunately this industry has gone through some turbulant times as of late with rediculous price increases due to material costs, and fuel costs. I kindly told him that if he did not want the rings, I would be ok to stock these. I was not going to force anything upon him. We spoke for a bit on the phone and he told me that he still wanted the rings. I shipped them out right away that day and gave him a tracking number. Rob's tone on the phone seemed upset, however it did sound like we had come to a resolution regarding the situation. In all honestly, I have already lost money on this transaction for the original purchase of the wheels along with letting the center cap adapters go at cost. I came upon this thread because another vendor had kindly linked this to me. You could say that I'm trying to do damage control, but I understand that what I have done has probably caused detriment to my name on this board. I've been working on web forums for the past 8 years and I've seen my share of shadyness. Please understand that it is not plausible that I would try to screw someone over or steal their money and ruin the reputation of SP Engineering for $176.00. If you guys do feel the need to pass the word along not to do business with me, I understand. However, please specify that it is I, Edward Liu, not SP Engineering. Hell, I pay more a month in sponsorship rates, no reason why I would want to ruin my chances to do business with anyone in this community. If anyone is still willing to give me a shot, that's great. I am an avid JDM enthusiast as most of you can see by the products I'm advertising on this site. Either way, I apologize to Rob, I did the best that I could, and I would never try to harm or intentionally cause you inconvenience. If anyone has questions, please PM me for further details. Thank you. Ed @ SP-POWER 626-333-5398
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07-27-2008, 10:20 AM	#20
bolinp78 G35 convertee 69 Rep 1,009 Posts Drives: 2008 335i (AW) Join Date: May 2008 Location: . iTrader: (1)	If the rings were on the same invoice and a part of the same transaction as the wheels, then you legally must sell him the rings for the price on the invoice. If the rings were on a separate invoice, and no consideration was made for that second invoice, then I guess he is not required to sell at the previously agreed upon price. It's really that simple. __________________
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07-27-2008, 01:44 PM	#21
TSM330i 2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport 878 Rep 3,699 Posts Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chester Springs, PA iTrader: (2)	We are probably not going to hear from Edward again. What he said is all true and I believe that he didn't know of the pricing issue until June (still a month BEFORE I got the rings). Again, nothing noted or said by Edward that the rings weren't paid for along with the wheels, which they were. If this entire issue is costing SP less than they pay for internet marketing in one month, then why wouldn't they just eat the $176 for their reputation's sake? The main reason I'm sticking to my guns on this is because I PAID for the rings to start with and pricing changed 3-1/2 months later (when I found out). You just can't do that. Edward - just refund my money for the rings I had paid for with our initial transaction and there'll be no hard feelings. __________________ 2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course 2015 GTI S 2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar Last edited by TSM330i; 07-27-2008 at 09:46 PM..
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07-28-2008, 04:26 AM	#22
cyba Lieutenant General 948 Rep 14,371 Posts Drives: beast Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: everywhere iTrader: (353)	isnt Alex the owner of SP? I met him 10 years back when his company wasnt that big and he seems like a cool guy maybe talk to him and see what he can do.
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