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      03-03-2019, 05:05 PM   #1
dmann33
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Bimmer Newb - tire questions

So, the 22s come with staggered summer RFTs whereas the 21s come with a squared set of All Seasons either run flat or non.


Pros/cons

22s
RFTs cost more, wear faster, and are less comfortable
Staggered set up means no true rotation
No non-RFT or All season or winter tire presently available (for rear)

21s
Easily rotated for even wear


Help me understand...

It looks like the only Rear 22" tire available is the Pzero for $500+ each


1) What is the life expectancy of these rear tires? I guess no way the rears make it 45k (to end of lease)??

2) Would one usually replace the rear 22s before the fronts? Or, do you need to change them all at once?

3) What would you experienced (X5) owners expect for lifetime of 21s RFT vs non-RFT?


I'd hate to need to drop $2300k on new 22" tires just before 36M lease is up (at 45,000 miles)
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      03-03-2019, 05:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann33 View Post
So, the 22s come with staggered summer RFTs whereas the 21s come with a squared set of All Seasons either run flat or non.


Pros/cons

22s
RFTs cost more, wear faster, and are less comfortable
Staggered set up means no true rotation
No non-RFT or All season or winter tire presently available (for rear)

21s
Easily rotated for even wear


Help me understand...

It looks like the only Rear 22" tire available is the Pzero for $500+ each


1) What is the life expectancy of these rear tires? I guess no way the rears make it 45k (to end of lease)??

2) Would one usually replace the rear 22s before the fronts? Or, do you need to change them all at once?

3) What would you experienced (X5) owners expect for lifetime of 21s RFT vs non-RFT?


I'd hate to need to drop $2300k on new 22" tires just before 36M lease is up (at 45,000 miles)
I expect to get 12-14k miles out of my 22 rfts. I don’t expect rears to go any earlier than fronts based on past experiences.

For those 21 run flats or regular I’d expect 14-18k miles from them, personally, but again each driver different. I don’t have a ton of experience with run flats
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      03-03-2019, 06:35 PM   #3
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[QUOTE=ppagiga;24463099]I expect to get 12-14k miles out of my 22 rfts. I don’t expect rears to go any earlier than fronts based on past experiences.

For those 21 run flats or regular I’d expect 14-18k miles from them, personally, but again each driver different. I don’t have a ton of experience with run flats[/QUOTIE]

I opted for the 21" non run flat. The ease of replacement with a wider array of tire choices and the significant cost difference was a no brainer for me. Enough customers got mad at the run flats over the years, BMW has finally offered the non run flat as a choice. Run flats always seem to wear faster and have louder ride when I have had them. You can't really switch later - since the suspension settings are different for run flats vs non run flats.
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      03-03-2019, 06:38 PM   #4
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My experience with staggered tires has been great. Summer tires have significantly better traction in warmer months (about half the year where I live) than all season tires. The life of the tire will depend on how you drive. Most BMW suspensions with staggered tires have been set up with a negative camber from the factory. This is intended for more aggressive driving in turns. If you baby the car you'll find you'll have uneven wear (insides wear faster than outside of the tire) and you'll replace the tires as often as every 20k miles. If you get a sport package with staggered summer tires and don't throw your car into turns then you may be able to extend the life of the tires by having the camber adjusted with a more neutral stance.

That said, if you're anywhere north of Florida or not living somewhere with temps above 45F all year then I would strongly recommend getting a second set of wheels with winter tires. This will also help you extend the life of your summer tires.
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      03-03-2019, 08:55 PM   #5
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In my old X6 50 I would burn through staggered RFT rears every 10k and fronts every 20k.

In our X5 35d they staggered RFTs were even around 20k, but I switched to non RFT AS contis and they are quieter, more comfortable, cheaper, should last longer, and have essentially the same grip. I mean, come on, it's an SUV, not an M car. Plus I don't panic if I'm caught in a late spring or early fall snow storm (I run winter tires in winter).

When I order my X7 I'll be getting 21 inch non-RFT AS with a spare and I'll be happy. The only real benefit with 22's is the better stance, marginally improved handling, and a much better fat-ass look from the rear. And really it comes at a huge cost that to me is not worth it in an SUV.
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      03-04-2019, 03:02 AM   #6
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12k-14k miles on each set of tires? Holy hurting pocketbook, Batman!

I'm still gathering data, but based on what I know of runflats, owner reports of harsh rides with 22", me living at least part of my time in a winter arctic environment, and preferring to put on a set of winter tires and wheels, I'm thinking of going 21".
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      03-04-2019, 07:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Blue View Post
12k-14k miles on each set of tires? Holy hurting pocketbook, Batman!

I'm still gathering data, but based on what I know of runflats, owner reports of harsh rides with 22", me living at least part of my time in a winter arctic environment, and preferring to put on a set of winter tires and wheels, I'm thinking of going 21".

Yes Robin - and these 22's appear to run well over $2000 per set. I'm also a bit in shock about burning at least $4500-$5000 on tires (not even counting the factory set) on a 36/15 lease. Worst case - I'd need another set and $7000. That seems crazy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhanson View Post
In my old X6 50 I would burn through staggered RFT rears every 10k and fronts every 20k.

In our X5 35d they staggered RFTs were even around 20k, but I switched to non RFT AS contis and they are quieter, more comfortable, cheaper, should last longer, and have essentially the same grip. I mean, come on, it's an SUV, not an M car. Plus I don't panic if I'm caught in a late spring or early fall snow storm (I run winter tires in winter).

When I order my X7 I'll be getting 21 inch non-RFT AS with a spare and I'll be happy. The only real benefit with 22's is the better stance, marginally improved handling, and a much better fat-ass look from the rear. And really it comes at a huge cost that to me is not worth it in an SUV.

20k is a little better. Were they A/S maybe? I'm considering ordering non-RFT as well, but they appear to only be available on the 21" 753 wheel and I'm not a fan. Alternatively, I could go M Sport with the 21" 754M. They are all-season RFT so hopefully better wear and price per tire than the performance 22's. (ya those 22" 755Ms are sweet though)

Assuming I go 21" 754M, I would like the flexibility to switch to non RFT, but someone above said the suspension settings are different for an RFT spec'd X7 and you should not switch either way. Is that true?

Last edited by dmann33; 03-04-2019 at 01:27 PM..
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      03-04-2019, 02:09 PM   #8
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Maybe I missed this are the 21s staggered like below style
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      03-04-2019, 02:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4guy View Post
Maybe I missed this are the 21s staggered like below style
All the 21” setups are square, same size all corners
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      03-04-2019, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4guy View Post
Maybe I missed this are the 21s staggered like below style
No, the 21s are not staggered (only the 22s are). Those are the 753 wheels with AS RFT, and this is the wheel that you can also get equipped non RFT. Personally, I don't care for this wheel design (on a white X7)

edit: ppagia you beat me to it.
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      03-04-2019, 08:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
All the 21” setups are square, same size all corners
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann33 View Post
No, the 21s are not staggered (only the 22s are). Those are the 753 wheels with AS RFT, and this is the wheel that you can also get equipped non RFT. Personally, I don't care for this wheel design (on a white X7)

edit: ppagia you beat me to it.
Thanks, as much as staggered look good, just not worth the hassle for me from tire replacements and not being able to rotate tires.
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      03-04-2019, 10:26 PM   #12
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I live in Houston and put a lot of miles on my vehicles and it will not be practical to change out these expensive tires every 15K mi, so I was thinking about ordering a set of the 9.5" (757) front wheels that will fit the 275/40/22 tires to replace the 10.5" rear wheels to have the same size 22" 9.5" wheels on all 4 corners. This would allow me to purchase high performance all seasons that can get me 30k-40K mi. In the long run this will save me a lot of money on tires and still retain the general look I am looking for with the 22" wheels. The only drawback would be losing the aggressive stance with the staggered setup, but this would only be noticeable from the rear of the car. I have not done any research yet to see if there are any technical limitations or if spacers would be needed or not but would like to get some feedback on this option.
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      03-04-2019, 11:49 PM   #13
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spacers should work to give you the wide stance!

The fact of the matter though is we are going to pay pay for tires.

In 285/45/21, there are very few vehicles using this size. A Bentley, Rolls, Mercedes, and Lambo currently use this size. AFAIK, only Hankook is the only non OE supplier of this size.

and the rear 22" tire, I can't find anywhere in that size currently.

I hope that Mercedes GLS also uses these size, that will help with pricing.

The tire companies love this because, there is minimal competition for aftermarket sales meaning higher price per tire AND premium cars on average need new tires every 18 months.



Quote:
Originally Posted by groove1 View Post
I live in Houston and put a lot of miles on my vehicles and it will not be practical to change out these expensive tires every 15K mi, so I was thinking about ordering a set of the 9.5" (757) front wheels that will fit the 275/40/22 tires to replace the 10.5" rear wheels to have the same size 22" 9.5" wheels on all 4 corners. This would allow me to purchase high performance all seasons that can get me 30k-40K mi. In the long run this will save me a lot of money on tires and still retain the general look I am looking for with the 22" wheels. The only drawback would be losing the aggressive stance with the staggered setup, but this would only be noticeable from the rear of the car. I have not done any research yet to see if there are any technical limitations or if spacers would be needed or not but would like to get some feedback on this option.
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      03-05-2019, 02:09 AM   #14
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I wish there were better looking 20” rims. the base X7 in Germany comes with them, dunno what size. But it’s such a boring design.
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      03-05-2019, 07:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosbest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
I expect to get 12-14k miles out of my 22 rfts. I don’t expect rears to go any earlier than fronts based on past experiences.

For those 21 run flats or regular I’d expect 14-18k miles from them, personally, but again each driver different. I don’t have a ton of experience with run flats
Run flats always seem to wear faster and have louder ride when I have had them. You can't really switch later - since the suspension settings are different for run flats vs non run flats.

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it true that a car that comes with RFTs has different suspension settings?
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      03-05-2019, 07:33 AM   #16
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSqtHPspY4Y

Not a factory option but Little Rock BMW has a luxury package with 21” M rims on it
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      03-05-2019, 07:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosbest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
I expect to get 12-14k miles out of my 22 rfts. I don’t expect rears to go any earlier than fronts based on past experiences.

For those 21 run flats or regular I’d expect 14-18k miles from them, personally, but again each driver different. I don’t have a ton of experience with run flats
Run flats always seem to wear faster and have louder ride when I have had them. You can't really switch later - since the suspension settings are different for run flats vs non run flats.

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it true that a car that comes with RFTs has different suspension settings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosbest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
I expect to get 12-14k miles out of my 22 rfts. I don't expect rears to go any earlier than fronts based on past experiences.

For those 21 run flats or regular I'd expect 14-18k miles from them, personally, but again each driver different. I don't have a ton of experience with run flats
Run flats always seem to wear faster and have louder ride when I have had them. You can't really switch later - since the suspension settings are different for run flats vs non run flats.

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it true that a car that comes with RFTs has different suspension settings?


The only way we could confirm is by looking at the parts catalog when it's available, but it's possible with the air suspension that it could be possible to code it to a different setting.
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      03-05-2019, 07:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like2short View Post
The only way we could confirm is by looking at the parts catalog when it's available, but it's possible with the air suspension that it could be possible to code it to a different setting.
I think it might be true for this vehicle given that the winter set ups they are offering for this vehicle are all mounted on run flat winter tires. Logic being most people that want the winters have a 22” run flat set up for the other months
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      03-05-2019, 08:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSqtHPspY4Y

Not a factory option but Little Rock BMW has a luxury package with 21” M rims on it
That's exactly what I want to do, to switch out standard luxury trim 21" wheels with one of the sport trim 21" wheels. Don't want the 22" wheels because of the ride qualities and higher potential for damages with the terrible roads here in NY.
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      03-05-2019, 08:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppagiga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by like2short View Post
The only way we could confirm is by looking at the parts catalog when it's available, but it's possible with the air suspension that it could be possible to code it to a different setting.
I think it might be true for this vehicle given that the winter set ups they are offering for this vehicle are all mounted on run flat winter tires. Logic being most people that want the winters have a 22” run flat set up for the other months
When I talked to BMW NA at the November LA autoshow, they said they expected the 22" take rate to be low in snow states because they only came with summer tires, but the feeling I'm getting here on the board is people want the 22s.
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      03-05-2019, 09:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like2short View Post
When I talked to BMW NA at the November LA autoshow, they said they expected the 22" take rate to be low in snow states because they only came with summer tires, but the feeling I'm getting here on the board is people want the 22s.
Well yeah, they're beautiful. Just think the associated issues may not be worth it.
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      03-05-2019, 12:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmann33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Blue View Post
12k-14k miles on each set of tires? Holy hurting pocketbook, Batman!

I'm still gathering data, but based on what I know of runflats, owner reports of harsh rides with 22", me living at least part of my time in a winter arctic environment, and preferring to put on a set of winter tires and wheels, I'm thinking of going 21".

Yes Robin - and these 22's appear to run well over $2000 per set. I'm also a bit in shock about burning at least $4500-$5000 on tires (not even counting the factory set) on a 36/15 lease. Worst case - I'd need another set and $7000. That seems crazy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhanson View Post
In my old X6 50 I would burn through staggered RFT rears every 10k and fronts every 20k.

In our X5 35d they staggered RFTs were even around 20k, but I switched to non RFT AS contis and they are quieter, more comfortable, cheaper, should last longer, and have essentially the same grip. I mean, come on, it's an SUV, not an M car. Plus I don't panic if I'm caught in a late spring or early fall snow storm (I run winter tires in winter).

When I order my X7 I'll be getting 21 inch non-RFT AS with a spare and I'll be happy. The only real benefit with 22's is the better stance, marginally improved handling, and a much better fat-ass look from the rear. And really it comes at a huge cost that to me is not worth it in an SUV.

20k is a little better. Were they A/S maybe? I'm considering ordering non-RFT as well, but they appear to only be available on the 21" 753 wheel and I'm not a fan. Alternatively, I could go M Sport with the 21" 754M. They are all-season RFT so hopefully better wear and price per tire than the performance 22's. (ya those 22" 755Ms are sweet though)

Assuming I go 21" 754M, I would like the flexibility to switch to non RFT, but someone above said the suspension settings are different for an RFT spec'd X7 and you should not switch either way. Is that true?
The 20k were the OEM summer run flats. And that's 20k KILOMETERS not miles. In fairness the X6 I drove like a maniac, but the X5 is much more well mannered and mostly driven by my wife. I probably could have gotten another 5-10k km but there must have been an alignment issue because the fronts cupped a bit. I just don't understand the concept of performance tires on non-M SUV.

And from what I've seen on the configuratior you can do either RFT or non-RFT on the 21's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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