[stormchaser7]

Thousands of Perfectly good BMW cars are being thrown away at alarming rates. "It's a matter of simply replacing a simple part" says Mike Scisnero, who works for Euro auto works. "It's a shame that so many people are parting out their BMWs, all because of suggestions on various face book pages and online forums." Part-Out has become such a catch Phrase. Even funny Meme's have shown up featuring birds and vultures yelling "Part Out. It's sad we have such a throw away society. But that is exactly what BMW is counting on. "The water pump was designed to fail" says Friedrich Fröhlich, lead engineering designer at BMW. "The entire concept is to get BMW owners to scrap their cars and buy a newer model." Even companies like fedex and UPS are cashing in on the trend. "We see so many auto parts being shipped from cars that are parted out", said Fred Mason, chief analyst for e-commerce Northeast. If BMW owners would take the time to learn how to fix their own cars, this wouldn't happen. Now, a movement has been started to "STOP THE PART-OUT". It's sweeping Facebook and online forums in recent months. Users are getting fed up with non-helpful solutions. "I want to shoot who ever started the "Part-Out movement" says Greg Simpson. He heads a national online BMW forum. "It's bad taste to throw away a perfectly good BMW. Just fix it and be done!

[EndOfAnEra]

Yeah, I'm guilty.

When these kids ask questions on these Facebook groups like "what does this symbol mean?" when they are perfectly capable of opening up the owners manual or researching online, PART OUT will always be the answer. If you are not willing to put any effort in at least trying to find the answer then you will get a sarcastic reply.

[djh2]

The part outs I often see are from body damage cars. While it’s true that some of these cars get totaled easier now as they age, there are plenty of stories on this board of salavage cars getting new leases on life. I don’t buy “the movement”

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by djh2

The part outs I often see are from body damage cars. While it’s true that some of these cars get totaled easier now as they age, there are plenty of stories on this board of salavage cars getting new leases on life. I don’t buy “the movement”

If it is, BMW’s (former) Lead Engineering Designer is currently looking for work

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by djh2

The part outs I often see are from body damage cars. While it’s true that some of these cars get totaled easier now as they age, there are plenty of stories on this board of salavage cars getting new leases on life. I don’t buy “the movement”

Until someone else has a 349,000-mile 2006 E90 325i that hits a deer, the car gets totaled by his insurance company, then he buys it back as salvage AND gets it repaired, I'm claiming "Best Salvage Story" on E90 Post.

[Efthreeoh]

"But that is exactly what BMW is counting on. 'The water pump was designed to fail' says Friedrich FrÃhlich, lead engineering designer at BMW. 'The entire concept is to get BMW owners to scrap their cars and buy a newer model'."

[OTO335i]

People wouldn't get rid of their bmw's if they were built right. They need to stop making shitty parts on expensive cars. I got my bimmer because i thought it was built with quality parts "hence the price tag of these cars" but I was wrong. Why would I want to keep fixing a car that's designed to fail and that parts are overpriced for? Now that people are catching on to their gimmick they're complaining of people not wanting to keep a failing car.... Hhmmm

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by OTO335i

People wouldn't get rid of their bmw's if they were built right. They need to stop making shitty parts on expensive cars. I got my bimmer because i thought it was built with quality parts "hence the price tag of these cars" but I was wrong. Why would I want to keep fixing a car that's designed to fail and that parts are overpriced for? Now that people are catching on to their gimmick they're complaining of people not wanting to keep a failing car.... Hhmmm

Ah, I have to counter these statements a bit. I've owned BMWs 3-series cars for 30 years and have kept all of them well over a decade each and all will reach well over 200,000 miles (two already have). I DIY most all of my repairs and DIY all my maintenance. Also, I've been around BMWs since the early 1980's, so I can say I have a lot experience in ownership at in deep levels. I've been wrenching on cars since the mid 1970's.

In general, automotive engineering throughout the industry has gotten very complex, due in most part to fuel, emissions, and safety regulations. So it is not only BMW that are complicated and over-engineered. I have stated previously that the cooling system in the E90 is complicated and over-engineered and poorly engineered in some respects. The BMW coolant hose connections are just completely ridiculous and can see no purpose for them. I can't see how they same time and expense on the assembly line. The complexity of the quick-connect male and female hose connections makes the hoses expensive to design and manufacture where a simple ribbed hose bib and hose clamp would work just fine. The only justification I can see is to retain proprietary part assemblies to reduce reverse engineering by aftermarket part manufacturers. The parts are of high manufactured quality, just over-complicated. But on the other hand, BMW's standard electrical connector that has a push-down spring to unlock is a very good design.

Computer controlled engines are an industry standard mandated by emission regulations, and with the advent of OBDII, I think this makes diagnosis and repair easier, not harder (as compared to analog engines from 4 decades ago). The diagnostics tools are cheap and plentiful now. I don't think BMWs are any better or worse than other manufacturers.

As far as the E90 goes, I think the front end is designed very smartly. It has a fiber-reinforced plastic core support that gives way in an accident and reduces the transfer of crash energy to the frame, which reduces the damage to the rest of the chassis and lessens the cost of repair. I recently looked closely at the 2-series. There are small tabs between the front fenders and side rails of the frame. Additional pieces and fasteners to replace, yet I'm sure they were added to reduce impact to the frame in case of a fender-bender and to allow better alignment of the body panels during body repair.

I also think the insurance industry has figured out that totaling lightly damaged cars of semi-high mileage and aged a bit is profitable due to the aftermarket for used parts. On the good side, my recent experience with my car being totaled, is my state does not require a salvage title for cars over 5 model-years old and under $10,000 in value. My car was recently repaired after a deer encounter, and I still have a clear title.

[e90yyc]

Looking past the complexity of the engineering, which is necessary to some degree in order to achieve a level of refinement consistent with their reputation, BMW is constantly innovating and improving, never resting on their laurels.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t room for improvement, but when you take a brand like Toyota for example, they have used some engines and transmissions for 10 or even 15 years with only minor changes. That, coupled with the fact these engines were never really cutting edge, means their reliability is frankly hard to beat. They win best engine awards not because their engines are in the same league as N52, 54/55, B58 etc are, but because they’re stupid reliable and are still decent to boot.

Extreme example I know, but I’m not one to buy into conspiracies about our cars being designed to fail.

The way I see it—knock on wood—the only thing that would separate me from my car is a complete and total loss. Everything else is repairable or replaceable to me.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

"But that is exactly what BMW is counting on. 'The water pump was designed to fail' says Friedrich FrÃhlich, lead engineering designer at BMW. 'The entire concept is to get BMW owners to scrap their cars and buy a newer model'."

Right? Googling that I find nothing.


What is the sources of OP's quote lol?

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah, I have to counter these statements a bit. I've owned BMWs 3-series cars for 30 years and have kept all of them well over a decade each and all will reach well over 200,000 miles (two already have). I DIY most all of my repairs and DIY all my maintenance. Also, I've been around BMWs since the early 1980's, so I can say I have a lot experience in ownership at in deep levels. I've been wrenching on cars since the mid 1970's.

In general, automotive engineering throughout the industry has gotten very complex, due in most part to fuel, emissions, and safety regulations. So it is not only BMW that are complicated and over-engineered. I have stated previously that the cooling system in the E90 is complicated and over-engineered and poorly engineered in some respects. The BMW coolant hose connections are just completely ridiculous and can see no purpose for them. I can't see how they same time and expense on the assembly line. The complexity of the quick-connect male and female hose connections makes the hoses expensive to design and manufacture where a simple ribbed hose bib and hose clamp would work just fine. The only justification I can see is to retain proprietary part assemblies to reduce reverse engineering by aftermarket part manufacturers. The parts are of high manufactured quality, just over-complicated. But on the other hand, BMW's standard electrical connector that has a push-down spring to unlock is a very good design.

Computer controlled engines are an industry standard mandated by emission regulations, and with the advent of OBDII, I think this makes diagnosis and repair easier, not harder (as compared to analog engines from 4 decades ago). The diagnostics tools are cheap and plentiful now. I don't think BMWs are any better or worse than other manufacturers.

As far as the E90 goes, I think the front end is designed very smartly. It has a fiber-reinforced plastic core support that gives way in an accident and reduces the transfer of crash energy to the frame, which reduces the damage to the rest of the chassis and lessens the cost of repair. I recently looked closely at the 2-series. There are small tabs between the front fenders and side rails of the frame. Additional pieces and fasteners to replace, yet I'm sure they were added to reduce impact to the frame in case of a fender-bender and to allow better alignment of the body panels during body repair.

I also think the insurance industry has figured out that totaling lightly damaged cars of semi-high mileage and aged a bit is profitable due to the aftermarket for used parts. On the good side, my recent experience with my car being totaled, is my state does not require a salvage title for cars over 5 model-years old and under $10,000 in value. My car was recently repaired after a deer encounter, and I still have a clear title.

Completely agree. Any modern car is complicated due to all the systems they have, and most have the plastic throwaway parts. I looked under a 6.7L Diesel Ford F350 the other day, a truck that cost close to $80k the way it was optioned when new, and it had a plastic oil pan. With BMW, at least there is aftermarket support for a lot of things including software diagnostics and coding. My dad owns a 2013 Grand Cherokee that killed it's electric rear differential lock motor and module recently. The module can only be coded by the dealer.


Also, if the electronic water pumps were designed to fail, they'd be failing at around the same mileage for every single car. Some kill the pumps at 40k miles, others go 180k on the same pump. It is related to the complexity of the design and environmental factors such as heat.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

Looking past the complexity of the engineering, which is necessary to some degree in order to achieve a level of refinement consistent with their reputation, BMW is constantly innovating and improving, never resting on their laurels.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t room for improvement, but when you take a brand like Toyota for example, they have used some engines and transmissions for 10 or even 15 years with only minor changes. That, coupled with the fact these engines were never really cutting edge, means their reliability is frankly hard to beat. They win best engine awards not because their engines are in the same league as N52, 54/55, B58 etc are, but because they’re stupid reliable and are still decent to boot.

Extreme example I know, but I’m not one to buy into conspiracies about our cars being designed to fail.

The way I see it—knock on wood—the only thing that would separate me from my car is a complete and total loss. Everything else is repairable or replaceable to me.

Toyota is definitely resting on their laurels. My friend just paid 20 grand for a used Tacoma, and while it is a nice truck, most of it looks like 1990s technology including the interior.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Right? Googling that I find nothing.


What is the sources of OP's quote lol?

It's bullbird my good man.

Not sure whether the actual "movement" is real, but that quote sure as hell ain't.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

Toyota is definitely resting on their laurels. My friend just paid 20 grand for a used Tacoma, and while it is a nice truck, most of it looks like 1990s technology including the interior.

Totally. And to take it even further, there's plenty of 1990's technology under the hood and elsewhere in the vehicle too

I feel this is something that's often overlooked when I hear arguments or debates that pit BMW (or Benz or whoever) against the "reliable" brands.

Japanese lux will never be equal to German lux in my books. Every time I drive an Acura or a Lexus or an Infiniti, I'm reminded of this. I get this feeling they aren't quite finished, if that makes any sense... In the case of Acura, fearing that I was judging them on their lesser offerings, I even drove the RLX just to see what their flagship is like. Absolute rubbish. And I honestly wanted to like it.

When it comes to Lexus, there are blanks in the switch banks, controls that came straight from their lesser-branded siblings, embarrassing MMI systems, etc. I also get the impression the steering wheel isn't actually connected to anything.

Even the interiors of the $80k plus Lexi feel was too Toyota-esque for me.

[OTO335i]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah, I have to counter these statements a bit. I've owned BMWs 3-series cars for 30 years and have kept all of them well over a decade each and all will reach well over 200,000 miles (two already have). I DIY most all of my repairs and DIY all my maintenance. Also, I've been around BMWs since the early 1980's, so I can say I have a lot experience in ownership at in deep levels. I've been wrenching on cars since the mid 1970's.

In general, automotive engineering throughout the industry has gotten very complex, due in most part to fuel, emissions, and safety regulations. So it is not only BMW that are complicated and over-engineered. I have stated previously that the cooling system in the E90 is complicated and over-engineered and poorly engineered in some respects. The BMW coolant hose connections are just completely ridiculous and can see no purpose for them. I can't see how they same time and expense on the assembly line. The complexity of the quick-connect male and female hose connections makes the hoses expensive to design and manufacture where a simple ribbed hose bib and hose clamp would work just fine. The only justification I can see is to retain proprietary part assemblies to reduce reverse engineering by aftermarket part manufacturers. The parts are of high manufactured quality, just over-complicated. But on the other hand, BMW's standard electrical connector that has a push-down spring to unlock is a very good design.

Computer controlled engines are an industry standard mandated by emission regulations, and with the advent of OBDII, I think this makes diagnosis and repair easier, not harder (as compared to analog engines from 4 decades ago). The diagnostics tools are cheap and plentiful now. I don't think BMWs are any better or worse than other manufacturers.

As far as the E90 goes, I think the front end is designed very smartly. It has a fiber-reinforced plastic core support that gives way in an accident and reduces the transfer of crash energy to the frame, which reduces the damage to the rest of the chassis and lessens the cost of repair. I recently looked closely at the 2-series. There are small tabs between the front fenders and side rails of the frame. Additional pieces and fasteners to replace, yet I'm sure they were added to reduce impact to the frame in case of a fender-bender and to allow better alignment of the body panels during body repair.

I also think the insurance industry has figured out that totaling lightly damaged cars of semi-high mileage and aged a bit is profitable due to the aftermarket for used parts. On the good side, my recent experience with my car being totaled, is my state does not require a salvage title for cars over 5 model-years old and under $10,000 in value. My car was recently repaired after a deer encounter, and I still have a clear title.

I understand what you're saying and I do agree with your information, you got to enjoy these cars before all these computers and plastic parts were introduced.

Although we have access to all these diagnosing tools I still find that finding an issue on today's cars is still at times a chase down the rabbit hole because of all the extra parts and sensors that these cars now have.

I do enjoy my 335 M-sport and love the look of it even though it's completely stock, luckily I haven't had that many issues with it since I've owned it except the water pump and I'm at 172,000 km's. I just keep worrying about what can possibly go wrong and I know how much these common failures cost in parts alone, I also DIY all my repairs but I still find parts for these are really steep for what they are...

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by OTO335i

I understand what you're saying and I do agree with your information, you got to enjoy these cars before all these computers and plastic parts were introduced.

Although we have access to all these diagnosing tools I still find that finding an issue on today's cars is still at times a chase down the rabbit hole because of all the extra parts and sensors that these cars now have.

I do enjoy my 335 M-sport and love the look of it even though it's completely stock, luckily I haven't had that many issues with it since I've owned it except the water pump and I'm at 172,000 km's. I just keep worrying about what can possibly go wrong and I know how much these common failures cost in parts alone, I also DIY all my repairs but I still find parts for these are really steep for what they are...

But it's not that bad though right? If you put 2k or 2.5k$ on the side you should be able to fix all major issues.

[OTO335i]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

But it's not that bad though right? If you put 2k or 2.5k$ on the side you should be able to fix all major issues.

You're right, it's not terrible but the issue is putting that money aside lol with a new to me mortgage payment, bills, trips...ect plus the fact I'm not receiving my pay increments at work due to an amazing pay system... but if something goes I will find the funds to address the issue right away.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by OTO335i

You're right, it's not terrible but the issue is putting that money aside lol with a new to me mortgage payment, bills, trips...ect plus the fact I'm not receiving my pay increments at work due to an amazing pay system... but if something goes I will find the funds to address the issue right away.

Ah okok yeah I understand. I was in that way when I had my 04 330ci. Saved up some from the start now for my 335is.

Hey I see you're in Ottawa Canada next to me, by "amazing pay system" you're not talking about Phoenix are you?

[OTO335i]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Ah okok yeah I understand. I was in that way when I had my 04 330ci. Saved up some from the start now for my 335is.

Hey I see you're in Ottawa Canada next to me, by "amazing pay system" you're not talking about Phoenix are you?

Yeah at the time I purchased the 335 I was only paying rent so I didn't have as many expenses but oh well I manage.

hahah I sure am talking about Phoenix, the funny thing is I was at a meeting this morning regarding Phoenix and it was quite depressing lol

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by OTO335i

Yeah at the time I purchased the 335 I was only paying rent so I didn't have as many expenses but oh well I manage.

hahah I sure am talking about Phoenix, the funny thing is I was at a meeting this morning regarding Phoenix and it was quite depressing lol

Hahaha lmao I knew it. Thankfully Phoenix has not been to bad to me but I have only started the past year.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by OTO335i

I understand what you're saying and I do agree with your information, you got to enjoy these cars before all these computers and plastic parts were introduced.

Although we have access to all these diagnosing tools I still find that finding an issue on today's cars is still at times a chase down the rabbit hole because of all the extra parts and sensors that these cars now have.

I do enjoy my 335 M-sport and love the look of it even though it's completely stock, luckily I haven't had that many issues with it since I've owned it except the water pump and I'm at 172,000 km's. I just keep worrying about what can possibly go wrong and I know how much these common failures cost in parts alone, I also DIY all my repairs but I still find parts for these are really steep for what they are...

BMW plastic has gotten waaaaayyyyy better since the 1970s/80s. And the radios actually last longer than 5 years.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW plastic has gotten waaaaayyyyy better since the 1970s/80s. And the radios actually last longer than 5 years.

Agreed. The 90s stuff was even quite awful.