[Nobby Clark]

Can any of the cops please help settle a pub discussion?

While I think we’d all agree, undertaking carries risk and presents a danger, can anyone confirm if the following situation is legal or not?

Undertaking at a normal driving pace in a bus lane when it is out of the hours of use. Some say because a bus lane is separated from the next (outer) lane by a solid white line that you can, and the line should not be crossed by traffic in either lane. Others suggest the line is irrelevant, and the ndertake would be illegal.

TouringPleb ?

[NotGotABimmer23]

Undertaking isnt illegal per se but in some circumstances it could be considered driving without due care.

I think it depends on the situation, if you are doing 30 in a 30 sat in an out of hours bus lane minding your own business and happen to be passing someone inexplicably doing 20mph to your right then i cant really see an issue. If you are stuck behind someone, pull into the bus lane, undertake agressively then pull back in front then this is more likely to be an issue.

[Wills2]

As far as I'm aware you're allowed to maintain lane discipline which may involve passing a car on the left.

[....,,,,..,,..]

The solid white line is only marking the bus lane and not the same as the ones near dodgy bends etc where you should not cross in to other lane etc.

The bus lane then just becomes another lane of traffic when it's not active as a bus lane.

So same thing if it was say a 40mph two lane road / dual carriageway.

That's my take on it.

As for undertaking, I have to it every day on A449, as muppets sit in outside lane at 35mph and limit is 40mph, with traffic in morning etc you just end up undertaking.

[4WDriver]

Undertaking? Sorry to be the Grammar police but undertakers deal in stiffs , not passing cars.

Are we talking about overtaking on the inside? In which case you can't unless the traffic is moving in a queue and then not past the first car. So if it's the only car it's the first and you could get done.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by 4WDriver

Undertaking? Sorry to be the Grammar police but undertakers deal in stiffs , not passing cars.

Are we talking about overtaking on the inside? In which case you can't unless the traffic is moving in a queue and then not past the first car. So if it's the only car it's the first and you could get done.

Yeah bloody grammar it's a nightmare these days.

Could you drop the people that do that Highway Code book thing an email and tell to stop using the word undertaking, bloody terrible ain't it

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploa...k-en-12-04.pdf

[mikeoz]

I think the HW code says you can undertake if there is queuing traffic. Did not define speed of traffic ...?

[Nobby Clark]

Just to clarify, in the scenario presented, we are not suggesting an erratic undertake from right to left and back. Simply a brisk pace maintaining lane discipline undertaking someone who doesn’t understand the keep to the left rule.

We are aware of the allowance for slow moving lane undertaking in queuing traffic. This is a different situation .

Thanks for inputs so far folks.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Just to clarify, in the scenario presented, we are not suggesting an erratic undertake from right to left and back. Simply a brisk pace maintaining lane discipline undertaking someone who doesn’t understand the keep to the left rule.

We are aware of the allowance for slow moving lane undertaking in queuing traffic. This is a different situation .

Thanks for inputs so far folks.

I seriously cannot see anything hugely wrong with it, the alternative is sitting behind someone and flashing lights at them.

As mentioned I do this daily as fuckwits drive under the limit in outside lane.

The type that drive for 3 miles in outside lane until they eventually reach roundabout they turn right at.

[4WDriver]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Yeah bloody grammar it's a nightmare these days.

Could you drop the people that do that Highway Code book thing an email and tell to stop using the word undertaking, bloody terrible ain't it

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploa...k-en-12-04.pdf

Or this:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...ish/undertaker

Yep, just as HSBC say PIN Number on their website and ATM machine. These snowflakes are still wrong.

[4WDriver]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Yeah bloody grammar it's a nightmare these days.

Could you drop the people that do that Highway Code book thing an email and tell to stop using the word undertaking, bloody terrible ain't it

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploa...k-en-12-04.pdf

In the bible you refer to, psalm 268
268.
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested
conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-
hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these
conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing
traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by 4WDriver

Or this:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...ish/undertaker

Yep, just as HSBC say PIN Number on their website and ATM machine. These snowflakes are still wrong.

Bah Cambridge what do a bunch of fen mongs know.

Oxford has far better grasp of these things

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...on/undertaking

[4WDriver]

I found it! Psalm 92:

The police have the power to require a driver to undertake an eyesight test.

My search found only the one match. BS & crabs! Ain't what they used to be in my day

[teaston]

I really try not to undertake, but sometimes there are people who sit in the outside lane of a dual carriageway doing 65mph with nobody in front of them and they just will not move over no matter what you do, so in those cases, and if it’s safe to do so, I will undertake them (overtake on the inside lane).

In the USA it is a million times worse though, everyone just randomly picks a lane no matter how fast or slow they’re going, so you have to constantly weave if you want to stay at the speed limit!!

[Watsey]

The driver(s) which are in the outer lane, who are not overtaking other vehicles and are therefore obstructing traffic are not driving in compliance with the first rule of the road in the UK : KEEP LEFT. They are therefore at fault.

The speed limit is determined for any given road and is the same for all lanes. Driving at a faster speed in an inner lane, compared to a slower driver in an outer lane, is not illegal.

Undertaking. Every single day.

[kzg1969]

Originally Posted by 4WDriver

In the bible you refer to, psalm 268
268.
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested
conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-
hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these
conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing
traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

this is also what i defer to.

Does anyone actually know what the law says? I've always assumed its illegal.

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by Watsey

The driver(s) which are in the outer lane, who are not overtaking other vehicles and are therefore obstructing traffic are not driving in compliance with the first rule of the road in the UK : KEEP LEFT. They are therefore at fault.

The speed limit is determined for any given road and is the same for all lanes. Driving at a faster speed in an inner lane, compared to a slower driver in an outer lane, is not illegal.

Undertaking. Every single day.

Couldn't agree more. The amount of times I see cars in the 4th or 5th lane of the M25 (eg outside lane but 1 on wide sections) that are just sitting there not passing anything when the rest of the lanes are clear is stupid. Just like middle lane hogs, all it does is create a bottleneck of only 1 overtaking lane remaining, so they absolutely get undertaken!

[davyk31]

Have we actually had a Police view on this yet? Would be interesting as my understanding is that passing someone in the left lane in a controlled and sensible manner is just fine.

[Junebug85]

Originally Posted by teaston

In the USA it is a million times worse though, everyone just randomly picks a lane no matter how fast or slow they’re going, so you have to constantly weave if you want to stay at the speed limit!!

+1 on my recent trip to Atlanta, it seems like a free for all on the I85! Sometimes you have to weave if you want to stay alive

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Have we actually had a Police view on this yet? Would be interesting as my understanding is that passing someone in the left lane in a controlled and sensible manner is just fine.

Calling TouringPleb

[pensioned off]

Very wary of 'undertaking' as I reckon if the car in the outside lane is not moving over for whatever reason ie. not paying attention etc then they are just as likely to pull over on me as i'm going past.

[Dr Forinor]

Originally Posted by teaston

I really try not to undertake, but sometimes there are people who sit in the outside lane of a dual carriageway doing 65mph with nobody in front of them and they just will not move over no matter what you do, so in those cases, and if it’s safe to do so, I will undertake them (overtake on the inside lane).

Exactly what I do. If I do it a lot, it means there is a pleb in the outside lane (incorrectly) a lot.