[teaston]

I had sometimes thought that just maybe a Tesla Model 3 could be a possible car for me, until I saw this! Panel gaps you can fit your thumbs in among other things!

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-tesla-m...source=organic

[JD6]

It does look utterly crap!

I have been to a Tesla showroom 3 times over the last 3 years, driving a Model S on the first of those occasions, and to be fair I have noticed an improvement in build quality over that time. That said, it’s relatively easy to get the build right if you are producing low enough numbers to hand build, or at least hand finish cars.

The Model 3 is all about volume and I’m really not convinced that they can get this right, at the same time as stepping up volume and moving towards profit. They seem to have a choice - let embarrassing heaps of junk like this leave the production line or dial back the volumes significantly. Neither option looks good for a company with huge debts.

[robbiep]

Now now, folks

A certain Tesla fanboy will be along in a while, telling us all how we're all driving ancient technology, and he has the future. Elon Musk's godlike genius will supplant all our old crap, and he'll be lauded like the visionary his true disciples ... erm, I mean customers ... know he is.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Now now, folks

A certain Tesla fanboy will be along in a while, telling us all how we're all driving ancient technology, and he has the future. Elon Musk's godlike genius will supplant all our old crap, and he'll be lauded like the visionary his true disciples ... erm, I mean customers ... know he is.

Who’s the Tesla fanboy?

[teaston]

I still want one though after watching this video, man there are some cool features!!

[NanasBack]

It must be an Xdrive with wheel clearances like that!

[Darth Helmut]

The single large centre screen; what an abortion. You can tell this car has been designed by a bunch of spotty faced techy geeks as opposed to vehicle engineers (or even people who are old enough to have driven cars).

Wiper, wing mirror adjustments, hazard lights and other rudimentary driving controls buried in menus and sub menus. Basic driving controls like that have been button controls for many years for one simple reason; tactile muscle memory. You shouldnt need to look when selecting them. The overall distraction factor will no doubt lead to many prangs. Why not have a HUD as standard?

The quality aspect would concern me a bit but not as much as the almost complete reliance on electrics for doors and escape routes (rear doors). One wonders how the vehicle got any sort of type certification.

By no means a luddite or EV naysayer but the Model 3 does not do it for me.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

The single large centre screen; what an abortion. You can tell this car has been designed by a bunch of spotty faced techy geeks as opposed to vehicle engineers (or even people who are old enough to have driven cars).

Wiper, wing mirror adjustments, hazard lights and other rudimentary driving controls buried in menus and sub menus. Basic driving controls like that have been button controls for many years for one simple reason; tactile muscle memory. You shouldnt need to look when selecting them. The overall distraction factor will no doubt lead to many prangs. Why not have a HUD as standard?

The quality aspect would concern me a bit but not as much as the almost complete reliance on electrics for doors and escape routes (rear doors). One wonders how the vehicle got any sort of type certification.

By no means a luddite or EV naysayer but the Model 3 does not do it for me.

Good points, it looks cool having everything on a big touch screen, but in use it’s not going to be anywhere near as user friendly. You would think they’d have put HUD in it to match the other techyness, especially as it desperately needs a readout in front of the driver!

And how about having voice control for all the car settings, that would surely be a good way to control things without buttons?

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by teaston

Good points, it looks cool having everything on a big touch screen, but in use it’s not going to be anywhere near as user friendly. You would think they’d have put HUD in it to match the other techyness, especially as it desperately needs a readout in front of the driver!

And how about having voice control for all the car settings, that would surely be a good way to control things without buttons?

Yes, Im not sure if it has full voice control. If it has, it may address some of the single input issues.

Trouble is, manufacturers seem to think touch screens are the answer to everything. Obviously it makes production cheaper and easier but it doesn't matter how far in to the future we are, some things are not suited. Just the simple action of locating a control. With a touch screen, you pretty much always have to actually look at the display to action the control. Add to that a wobbly arm and finger as you try to precisely select the correct button. Works great on a smart phone or tablet as they are hand held and dexterity can be precise.

As I said, tactile muscle memory will not work. We underestimate how important that function is. Just watched another video on the Model 3 and its even three button pushes on the screen to open the fecking glove box!

Touch screens are great to augment the cockpit but there are rules to what you should and shouldnt use them for. Aircraft have had digital displays for some years but very very few have touch screens and most have tactile multi function buttons around the bezel for the reasons I've mentioned. Should be no different in a vehicle.

Just because you can, doesn't mean to say you should....


PS I'm a little disappointed in the overall design. I get that Tesla didnt want to go completely left field in the design so as not to scare the majority off but they could have done something with the front area. It looks like a model car that theyve forgotten to cut out the grill bit from the mould. Even though it doesnt need a radiator, its the 'shop front' for a car to make it recognisable. I recognise the front of the Model 3 due to its blandness.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by teaston

Who’s the Tesla fanboy?

Gangzoom

[gangzoom]

Not a bad review from someone who spends most of their time in supercars. I'm not cancelling my deposit, but the up and coming Electric XJ is also interesting.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ctric-flagship

[ciscopete822]

I prefer touch screen to buttons. New A8 made step in good direction with haptic feedback to on- scree buttons, game changer in my opinion. Look how clusterfook your cockpits are with army of buttons. Thats the problem. UI folks cannot show what they can cause you always have to accomodate for 100 years old buttons in your interface design.

[creepy coupe]

I think the panel gaps are an advantage. they take your eye off its hideous looks.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

Just because you can, doesn't mean to say you should....

Didn't want to quote the whole lot, but I totally agree.

We had an XC90 for a few weeks a while ago, and that has a fuck off great touch screen as well, and both me and the missus hated it for the reasons you have stated.

If you want to turn on the heated rear screen, you don't want to have to go fishing around menus to find it.

I can see how a touchscreen can have its uses, but cars where the centre console is totally button free is just a PITA.

Made me think of when Sony car stereos used to have those little remote, column mounted joysticks - and it was so easy to do whatever you wanted without taking your eyes off the road.

[Grim]

People seem to not realise this car isn't designed to drive. It designed to be driven in. It has the kit for level 5 autonomy when the time comes and has interior cameras to boot.

It's designed to drive you to work, function as an uber/private hire during your work day (or as a taxi for your family if you opt not to share the vehicle, granny would no longer need to bus it to Tesco), charge itself and pick you up after work.

That's why the glove box is controlled via the screen/computer; because it can be locked, along with the frunk, when you are taxing the vehicle.

Yeah it doesn't have independent rear suspension, an LSD or a broom broom exhaust, but it's not supposed to.

[Jeff123]

I agree with the previous post a well.

I reckon that once the mainstream manufacturers catch up with Tesla, which will not take long, they could be consigned to history. It really depends on how long Mr Musk wants to keep bailing them out, although with his resources, it could be quite a while.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Didn't want to quote the whole lot, but I totally agree.

We had an XC90 for a few weeks a while ago, and that has a fuck off great touch screen as well, and both me and the missus hated it for the reasons you have stated.

If you want to turn on the heated rear screen, you don't want to have to go fishing around menus to find it.

I can see how a touchscreen can have its uses, but cars where the centre console is totally button free is just a PITA.

Made me think of when Sony car stereos used to have those little remote, column mounted joysticks - and it was so easy to do whatever you wanted without taking your eyes off the road.

You've hit the nail on the head..

Touchscreens take a little while to get used to. We have a new XC90 and now we are used to it the screen is brilliant. Most things you need day to day are easily accessible and then there's more once you start delving deeper..

And just so you know in future.. there is a button for the heated rear screen!

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Grim

People seem to not realise this car isn't designed to drive. It designed to be driven in. It has the kit for level 5 autonomy when the time comes and has interior cameras to boot.

It's designed to drive you to work, function as an uber/private hire during your work day (or as a taxi for your family if you opt not to share the vehicle, granny would no longer need to bus it to Tesco), charge itself and pick you up after work.

That's why the glove box is controlled via the screen/computer; because it can be locked, along with the frunk, when you are taxing the vehicle.

Yeah it doesn't have independent rear suspension, an LSD or a broom broom exhaust, but it's not supposed to.

I think you are missing the big picture. Bringing out a car today which can potentially handle level 5 autonomy is rather like bringing out a very expensive TV which can handle 16K resolution. It's almost entirely pointless.

There are no 16K programmes available today, and by the time there are, there will be far better TVs available for a small fraction of the price.

Even Tesla's level 3 autonomy is rather flaky. Rather than preempting a move to level 5 autonomy, they should concentrate on making level 3 work better. This really is trying to run before you can walk.

[Darth Helmut]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

I prefer touch screen to buttons. New A8 made step in good direction with haptic feedback to on- scree buttons, game changer in my opinion. Look how clusterfook your cockpits are with army of buttons. Thats the problem. UI folks cannot show what they can cause you always have to accomodate for 100 years old buttons in your interface design.

But with haptic feedback, it only gives perception when you touch that part of the screen? You would still need to identify the correct area.

The 'army of buttons' have around 100 years of evolution behind them hence why most cars have common driving controls in the same place. I still stand by my original observations regarding augmenting physic controls with screens. Better voice control/recognition, HUD and multi function steering wheel inputs is the better current evolution.

If its fully autonomous, just make the whole 'car' a pod! But we like driving dont we?

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by Darth Helmut

But with haptic feedback, it only gives perception when you touch that part of the screen? You would still need to identify the correct area.

The 'army of buttons' have around 100 years of evolution behind them hence why most cars have common driving controls in the same place. I still stand by my original observations regarding augmenting physic controls with screens. Better voice control/recognition, HUD and multi function steering wheel inputs is the better current evolution.

If its fully autonomous, just make the whole 'car' a pod! But we like driving dont we?

As you said , buttons had 100 yrs of evolution , touchscreens just started. Technology is developing quickly , 5 years from now buttons will be thing of a past - either we like it or not. Just give it more time. I understand you points , its nice to have 2 full size nobs to control climate control and temp. , it just makes it easy but those 2 nobs must be powered , connected with cables, integrated etc. If you have more buttons then more cables , connectors etc. Media interface is affected as well cause you have to make references to those buttons across all menus / sub menus.

Following this analogy , it would be nice to have 3.5mm jack in your Iphone. It makes it so convenient , its been around for 100 years..... but Apple doesn't give a shit. Its cheaper this way and space taken by wiring etc can be used for battery etc. Same thing will happen to cars. Nowadays its cheaper and easier to put all in one big screen and call it "next generation. Technology is a b1tch!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

If you have more buttons then more cables , connectors etc. Media interface is affected as well cause you have to make references to those buttons across all menus / sub menus......... Nowadays its cheaper and easier to put all in one big screen and call it "next generation. Technology is a b1tch!

You got it in one, the whole ‘designed for autonomy’ strap line is a byproduct of marketing, just like BMW with ‘sDrive’ to hide the introduction of FWD cars.

On the S/X there is whole area of the display which never changes - circled in red. Tesla could have put in hard buttons buts that adds costs and manufacturing complexity compared to a single screen.



The S/X touch screens controls are fine though, the screen is massive, and there is still the dash display for speedo/nav/music function if something else is displayed on the main screen.

On the 3 everything is on the touch screen, not only is it smaller to start off with but they have even removed the ability to change wiper speeds from the stal. So going from slow to fast wipers now takes 3 taps on the screen. Not only does that take a lot more effort but to display the option on the screen will take away screen real estate from anything else been displayed.

Tesla has made a clear compromise on cost savings versus functionality. Am not convinced they have made the right choice.

[Darth Helmut]

gangzoom , as the resident Teslaphile, your comments are useful and interesting. I see with the X they've ensured you still have hard controls but auxiliary stuff is via the touch screen. That's the best compromise.

Unfortunately touch screens in their current form are not a replacement for absolutely everything. But they are cheap, easily configurable and have no moving parts. That is why manufacturers will use them more, regardless of their ergo-pitfalls.