[....,,,,..,,..]

It's getting common these days to read about HGV and LGV drivers causing the deaths of other drivers, either by falling asleep or other distractions that mean they fail to watch the road ahead.

Then we have criminal logistics companies installing cheat devices, when caught there is a huge £300 fine if the device is not removed.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...-cheat-devices

Then you have huge numbers of companies on safety Red risk, flouting safety and ignoring laws.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39181441


It's about time the focus was shifted more from the driver and on to the logistic / haulage companies and fines made more realistic.

A lot of the driver fatigue is down to these companies pushing drivers to hard and idiots employed as schedulers etc that decided what the drivers need to be doing.

It seems that logistics / haulage employess comboys and criminals.

(Recently carried out 2nd / 3rd party audits on a couple companies.. nightmare)

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

The cheat device with a £300 fine mentioned is for emissions, I would suggest that is not directly related to falling asleep at the wheel.

The penalties for safety related non compliance can result in a significant prison sentence if someone is hurt or killed. All o-licence holders and company directors know this and I know it has the desired affect and focuses my own mind on safety.

From my experience of working for 25 years in logistics, most large 3PL's do absolutely everything they can to comply and make they are safe.

The worst offenders for drivers hours have always been the Irish drivers who don't like to stop ever. Their rates are super tight and it is hard for them to earn any money if they comply, so half the time they don't.

Other regular offenders are often in-house operations of manufacturers where transport is not a core interest and they often don't know what they are doing. I have recently won a piece of business with a large company operating a hundred lorries of their own and they didn't even check agency drivers ID and licence before a shift, then would send them out with no induction.

Of all the countries in Europe, we follow the European regulations laid out on driving hours etc much better than most. Still, when we leave the EU maybe those laws will just disappear.

Not sure who you think the "idiots" are that are employed as schedulers? Is this something you have first hand experience of, or just a sweeping assumption?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Alex440

The cheat device with a £300 fine mentioned is for emissions, I would suggest that is not directly related to falling asleep at the wheel.

The penalties for safety related non compliance can result in a significant prison sentence if someone is hurt or killed. All o-licence holders and company directors know this and I know it has the desired affect and focuses my own mind on safety.

From my experience of working for 25 years in logistics, most large 3PL's do absolutely everything they can to comply and make they are safe.

The worst offenders for drivers hours have always been the Irish drivers who don't like to stop ever. Their rates are super tight and it is hard for them to earn any money if they comply, so half the time they don't.

Other regular offenders are often in-house operations of manufacturers where transport is not a core interest and they often don't know what they are doing. I have recently won a piece of business with a large company operating a hundred lorries of their own and they didn't even check agency drivers ID and licence before a shift, then would send them out with no induction.

Of all the countries in Europe, we follow the European regulations laid out on driving hours etc much better than most. Still, when we leave the EU maybe those laws will just disappear.

Not sure who you think the "idiots" are that are employed as schedulers? Is this something you have first hand experience of, or just a sweeping assumption?

First hand experience with.

£300 is an utter joke and should be dramatically increased and aimed solely at the main company with no option of 10 days to remove.

It's crazy that they are saying, look in the next 10 days remove it and we will not fine you for doing something illegal.

Agreed not linked to falling asleep, however it's all linked with piss poor companies getting away with murder (literally at times).

We have just dumped 2 x companies we dealt with due to cutting corners, lack of control,

Unless it's something like the Bath skip lorry, where the company had not lorry to road legal standards and it was owner and mechanic jailed, invariably it's the driver that gets it in the neck, even though in a lot of cases the company is known to be guilty but unable to be touched.

Where it's Irish or foreign drivers and companies then personally bans would be far more effective.

[Danny Fireblade]

I was travelling home the other day after work when my mate and I both saw a HGV driver using his phone, held to his ear. This was on a busy M3.

I called the company on the truck, and had them email me the drivers details. I then posted him off a little something the next day.

I am happy if my actions stop him using his phone again in the future, as I wouldn't want to be the car he crushes when he is distracted by his phone call. Cars may be safer nowadays, but not when a 40 tonne truck is travelling at 50mph and plows right through it.

I do not care what anyone says, there is no reason to use a phone while driving if it is being used as handheld.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Danny Fireblade

I was travelling home the other day after work when my mate and I both saw a HGV driver using his phone, held to his ear. This was on a busy M3.

I called the company on the truck, and had them email me the drivers details. I then posted him off a little something the next day.

I am happy if my actions stop him using his phone again in the future, as I wouldn't want to be the car he crushes when he is distracted by his phone call. Cars may be safer nowadays, but not when a 40 tonne truck is travelling at 50mph and plows right through it.

I do not care what anyone says, there is no reason to use a phone while driving if it is being used as handheld.

Well done.

I believe our drivers now lose their company car if caught.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Well done.

I believe our drivers now lose their company car if caught.

Job would be better - provide them with means to use legally, and a policy which says don't use illegally or its gross misconduct - job done.

[TouringPleb]

I'd have thought in these days of corporate responsibility and corporate manslaughter that the big companies do everything by the book.

Without being xenophobic, I know when we've run operations with Highways Agency, it tends to be East European and Irish drivers who stop their tacographs, have vehicle defects and their drivers run for days on Red Bull (often something stronger!) and cigarettes. I once had to take a Bulgarian driver to custody who amongst other offences, had driven for about 54 hrs straight at that time! His cab was littered with empty cans of the Bulgarian equivalent of Monster. I think they also found he was using 4 or 5 different tacographs to get around the hours.

I also think the self employed delivery drivers, the guys who hire a van and then deliver for Next, Amazon etc are a problem. Doesn't seem to be any regulation there as to how many hours, how many deliveries they make. I remember listening to the radio before Christmas when they were talking about it and some were expected to make 200-220 deliveries a day!!!!

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I'd have thought in these days of corporate responsibility and corporate manslaughter that the big companies do everything by the book.

Without being xenophobic, I know when we've run operations with Highways Agency, it tends to be East European and Irish drivers who stop their tacographs, have vehicle defects and their drivers run for days on Red Bull (often something stronger!) and cigarettes. I once had to take a Bulgarian driver to custody who amongst other offences, had driven for about 54 hrs straight at that time! His cab was littered with empty cans of the Bulgarian equivalent of Monster. I think they also found he was using 4 or 5 different tacographs to get around the hours.

I also think the self employed delivery drivers, the guys who hire a van and then deliver for Next, Amazon etc are a problem. Doesn't seem to be any regulation there as to how many hours, how many deliveries they make. I remember listening to the radio before Christmas when they were talking about it and some were expected to make 200-220 deliveries a day!!!!

It's not just the self employed ones working for big companies such as Next, Amazon, their own contracted drivers fall in to the mix as well.

The entire haulage / logistics industry seems to have an ostrich mentality.

For example these companies that use AdBlue cheat devices, the finance department know how much they spend on the stuff, so one month its say £10k and the next months it's £100 and nothing is done.

Same with this Next and Amazon deliveries, the main company knows what the delivery schedule is but do bugger all.

While yes Eastern European and Irish drivers are likely highest proportion, our own drivers and companies are loot much better and in some cases probably worse.

Other sectors within the EU are pretty good at self regulating or pushing forward EU wide legislation. No chance of that with the criminals and combines that make up EU wide logistic / haulage companies.

[Soul_Glo]

There was a case five years ago of a non European trucker who caused a death in London by dangerous driving then went to work in Scotland. After crashing there and losing his job he fled back to London and continued working as a LGV driver until eventually being caught out by an illegal immigration sting operation. Four years. One death. Continued working under the radar. No right to remain.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Most of this thread is Daily Mail style sensationalism.

I've worked in logistics for 25 years and for several large companies. I currently work for the largest operator of HGV's in Europe. This industry is heavily regulated and monitored and most companies do work very very hard to be compliant.

The fact that these exceptions are known about is because the sector is monitored well! Brigand has obviously had a few bad experiences, but that doesn't mean that it is widespread across the industry.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Alex440

Most of this thread is Daily Mail style sensationalism.

I've worked in logistics for 25 years and for several large companies. I currently work for the largest operator of HGV's in Europe. This industry is heavily regulated and monitored and most companies do work very very hard to be compliant.

The fact that these exceptions are known about is because the sector is monitored well! Brigand has obviously had a few bad experiences, but that doesn't mean that it is widespread across the industry.

But it is though, check out any of the various motorway patrol twitters or web updates.

Even the logistics own bodies state they are unable to recruit people with right skills, that's not the drivers but the people at backend.

We now ask as standard what a company is doing for GDPR and just get blank looks.

A number where hit to a various extent by Not Petya, with TNT (part of FedEx) losing almost all their systems with some critical ones not recoverable.

We had two fail a basic security assessment, basic personnel checks are not in place, hence bit above about drivers causing death by dangerous driving being allowed to get another job.

It's not sensationalism it's just basic facts about a part of the Transport Sector.

Even just looking at wagons stopped on M6, there are a high number of drivers over the limit, remember this is a person who drives for a living.

At least rail and bus companies have regulation and do take action, logistics and haulage are a joke.

It's all about saving money and getting deliveries on time, companies just turn a blind eye to the known cowboy and criminal activities going on.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

All I know is that the large companies I have worked for do not do that.

As I said before, I work for the largest HGV operator in Europe, and we do not put service before safety. (Sometimes at our customers annoyance, who don't care, they just want their own customer happy).

One example is agency drivers. If we have sickness or unexpected absence we will not put in a driver who has not had a full induction, which includes a minimum 4 hour accompanied driving assesment, amongst others things. If trained drivers aren't available the load doesn't go.

And like it or not, Brexit is likely to keep affecting this. Eastern European drivers make up a lot of our skilled workforce, they are usually our safest and definitely our most reliable staff. (This isn't the same as Eastern European drivers bringing their own trucks into country chasing every penny). The numbers that are arriving to actually work here are slowing as our own workforce retires and isn't replaced. This isn't because wages have been driven down by immigration, an HGV driver generally still earns a decent living, it's just not high tech enough for the younger generation right now.

Pretty much all large companies will have had accidents, even fatalities. It is a dangerous industry, delivery and depot yards are much more dangerous places than the public highways though. It is about working to minimise this, which a lot of companies do do.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Ps. Bus regulation is exactly the same as trucks. It is the same body that enforces it, often with the same people. And only minor differences in law and consequences to reflect the slight differences in the industries.

There are plenty of shoddy bus companies, running an awful lot of old, dirty (emissions), vehicles, that are struggling to get by.