[goodbyalfa]

And the results are pretty damming for 4 wheel drive..

[Chas325]

But the Kuga isn’t 4wd. It’s AWD - they say it in the video - fwd till they spin hen power at the rear. A proper 4wd is better in the snow than FWD (i have a proper torsen Quattro) but stopping is no better. I use winters and torsen Quattro but on its own it’s definately better

[....,,,,..,,..]

Rather old news really.

Now winters with xdrive v 2wd with winters no contest.

The 2wd comes over as rather poor.

So the best car to get is XDrive WITH winters.


However there is a huge amount of panic with people, we had about a foot of snow and -9c here and my car with summers managed no problem.

I even had a play in our large rear carpark that was fully untreated.

Personally one of the biggest problems is traffic density with people unable to drive in snow of a couple mm, you see that in the south nearly every time there is a dusting of snow, load of fails.

Yes winters need to be used in certain parts of UK, should we make them mandatory, no.

[goodbyalfa]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Rather old news really.

Now winters with xdrive v 2wd with winters no contest.

The 2wd comes over as rather poor.

So the best car to get is XDrive WITH winters.


However there is a huge amount of panic with people, we had about a foot of snow and -9c here and my car with summers managed no problem.

I even had a play in our large rear carpark that was fully untreated.

Personally one of the biggest problems is traffic density with people unable to drive in snow of a couple mm, you see that in the south nearly every time there is a dusting of snow, load of fails.

Yes winters need to be used in certain parts of UK, should we make them mandatory, no.

Don't disagree that x drive with winter's would be the best for cold weather. The point that was most interesting for me was winters 2wd vs summers 4wd... Clear winner on snow driving on an incline. Much more traction, which you would also see in improved stopping distances.

[willjames]

I wonder how a RWD would have faired on winter tyres. I wonder if it would have reached the top?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by goodbyalfa

Don't disagree that x drive with winter's would be the best for cold weather. The point that was most interesting for me was winters 2wd vs summers 4wd... Clear winner on snow driving on an incline. Much more traction, which you would also see in improved stopping distances.

Hence my conclusion, (years back), that driving RWD and having a winter wheel set is about the best compromise for all year use. The benefits of RWD dynamics, (let the rear wheels provide traction, the front wheels steer), throughout the year. No need to carry the xDrive compromises around for most of the year. The extra weight, particularly on the front, extra fuel consumption, added purchase costs, (you still need winter tyres if you want to control and stop the vehicle in the safest way).

Obviously xDrive and winter/cold weather tyres are the best option for severe weather driving. But unless you are prepared to run a set winter tyres, (or the further compromise of all-season tyres), why bother at all, for our typical 'on road' UK use.

[XAlp]

For winter:

Xd + w >
Fwd + w >
Rwd + w >
Xd + s >
Fwd + s >
Rwd + s

Correct?

Where do “allseasons” fit?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Hence my conclusion, (years back), that driving RWD and having a winter wheel set is about the best compromise for all year use. The benefits of RWD dynamics, (let the rear wheels provide traction, the front wheels steer), throughout the year. No need to carry the xDrive compromises around for most of the year. The extra weight, particularly on the front, extra fuel consumption, added purchase costs, (you still need winter tyres if you want to control and stop the vehicle in the safest way).

Obviously xDrive and winter/cold weather tyres are the best option for severe weather driving. But unless you are prepared to run a set winter tyres, (or the further compromise of all-season tyres), why bother at all, for our typical 'on road' UK use.

Agree completely .. but .. most people on the road in the UK don't bother with winter tyres and for these drivers xdrive is the best choice to keep them moving in all Conditions on their summer tyres.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Agree completely .. but .. most people on the road in the UK don't bother with winter tyres and for these drivers xdrive is the best choice to keep them moving in all Conditions on their summer tyres.

Most folks I know who get an AWD vehicle believe it is a safer means of transport in winter. Based on a flawed understanding, often fed by the motoring press and misleading marketing.

They don't realise there is a flawed logic. Car control and braking left out of the equation, just getting moving, the fear of "not getting stuck" takes priority.

I stand by the statement I often make, "better not to get moving, if you can't stop".

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by XAlp

For winter:

Xd + w >
Fwd + w >
Rwd + w >
Xd + s >
Fwd + s >
Rwd + s

Correct?

Where do “allseasons” fit?

FWD vs. RWD is not so black and white, IMO. Tyre aspect ratio & width, vehicle weight, axle weight (front vs. rear) can change the dynamics of traction and grip.

All-seasons, a compromise for those who only fit one set of wheels/tyres. Cross-Climate tyres may change the view of an 'all-year' tyre.

xDrive, as provided to the US/Canadian market, typically are fitted with All-season 'tires'. This has been the norm for years. The whole purpose of xDrive for many users had been to give an 'all year round' use vehicle. Obviously those in the snow belt and Canada, fit dedicated winter 'snow' tyres.

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Most folks I know who get an AWD vehicle believe it is a safer means of transport in winter. Based on a flawed understanding, often fed by the motoring press and misleading marketing.

They don't realise there is a flawed logic. Car control and braking left out of the equation, just getting moving, the fear of "not getting stuck" takes priority.

I stand by the statement I often make, "better not to get moving, if you can't stop".

That's good advice. However, my experience is, when there is snow, generally the main roads are gritted and clear. The problem is the minor roads and estates to get to the main roads aren't. All I really need to do is get out the street and it doesn't take much snow to stop you doing that completely in RWD. where as it's manageable in xD.

[XAlp]

Any experience of cross climates on here?

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by XAlp

Any experience of cross climates on here?

Yep, I've got them on my RWD 3 series and they performed very well in the recent snow we had. I purposely took my car onto the 6 inch deep of undisturbed snow part of the gym carpark to test them, and they had absolutely no problem with traction.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Yep, I've got them on my RWD 3 series and they performed very well in the recent snow we had. I purposely took my car onto the 6 inch deep of undisturbed snow part of the gym carpark to test them, and they had absolutely no problem with traction.

Deep snow isn't usually the biggest problem. What were they like on slush and wet snow?

[moonshine]

my pal has cross climates on his Alfa 147 GTA.
he reckons the CC are a big improvement on his ex-summer tyres in the winter and on snow, but definitely not as capable as proper winter tyres - but as a one set of do-it-all tyre, an acceptable compromise.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Deep snow isn't usually the biggest problem. What were they like on slush and wet snow?

Very good .. most of the side streets were slushy wet snow during the daytime, which is why I wanted to see if they handle deeper snow too. My own experience seems to match some of the reviews I've read, they're almost as good as decent full winter tyres in the snow but not as good as winter tyres on ice. Still they're better than summer tyres on ice so still a lot safer in those conditions too.

After using them for a couple of years the Main points I found for the cross climates being the best option for most of the UK if you leave the same tyres on all year round are..

*No real noticeable performance loss compared to summer tyres in dry warmer weather.
*almost as good as decent full winter tyres in the snow
*better/safer than using summer tyres in cold weather/ice
*good wet performance (better than the continental premium contact 2 rft tyres I had on before).