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      08-01-2017, 09:15 PM   #1
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2018 M5 S63 V8 (vs S65)?

Will have a twin turbo S63 V8. Anybody know how different the S63 is vs. the S65?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-drive-review
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      08-01-2017, 09:33 PM   #2
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Its the same engine as the current F10 M5, just retuned. Lots of info on the engine out there already
  • S63 - 4.4L Twin Turbo V8
  • S65 - 4.0L NA V8
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      08-01-2017, 10:23 PM   #3
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But new M5 will have AWD and be lighter than current M5. Looks great on paper, but will wait for road test, not that I will be buying a $100k car.

Last edited by pbonsalb; 08-02-2017 at 08:34 AM..
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      08-01-2017, 11:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
But new M5 will gave AWD and be lighter than current M5. Looks great on paper, but will wait for road test, not that I will be buying a $100k car.
I don't know man... Having owned 3 535s with the ZF8 and then a 435i M performance with the ZF8 then moving towards an E92 M3 with the DCT, there is no way i'd downgrade back to a auto transmission. No idea what BMW was thinking when it decided to ditch the DCT for the ZF8.
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      08-02-2017, 12:39 AM   #5
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Ive seen many situations where something is good, but the designer/ manufacturer needs something to do, to make it seem as if some "progress" is being made.........

this here seems like one of those things

First off the five series cars has gotten too damn big.
after the E60
the E60 m5 for all is problems had a certain "character" and stance that the F10 and this new one does not seem to have
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      08-02-2017, 12:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
Ive seen many situations where something is good, but the designer/ manufacturer needs something to do, to make it seem as if some "progress" is being made.........

this here seems like one of those things

First off the five series cars has gotten too damn big.
after the E60
the E60 m5 for all is problems had a certain "character" and stance that the F10 and this new one does not seem to have
May be the case.....fuck that if its true...
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      08-02-2017, 12:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
But new M5 will gave AWD and be lighter than current M5. Looks great on paper, but will wait for road test, not that I will be buying a $100k car.
I don't know man... Having owned 3 535s with the ZF8 and then a 435i M performance with the ZF8 then moving towards an E92 M3 with the DCT, there is no way i'd downgrade back to a auto transmission. No idea what BMW was thinking when it decided to ditch the DCT for the ZF8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
But new M5 will gave AWD and be lighter than current M5. Looks great on paper, but will wait for road test, not that I will be buying a $100k car.
I don't know man... Having owned 3 535s with the ZF8 and then a 435i M performance with the ZF8 then moving towards an E92 M3 with the DCT, there is no way i'd downgrade back to a auto transmission. No idea what BMW was thinking when it decided to ditch the DCT for the ZF8.
DCT can't handle the torque or perform as well as the new automatics, so it's no surprise they went to the ZF 8 speeds. I'd put that ZF 8 speed and dump the DCT in my F10 M5 if I could. The new automatics are nothing like what they used to be when DCT was a superior option.
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      08-02-2017, 04:24 AM   #8
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I don't usually love the M5 (as a daily it's a 100% perfect car, but as an "M" car...sorry...), but i'm actually excited about this new M5.

it may look like they jus tuned up the same engine they had, stuck in an old zf 8 speed auto, did some cosmetic surgery on LED lighting and called it a new M5, but it's really not.

The outgoing F10 was known to be a fat pig with big power, so it's good in straight but dynamically it was TERRIBLE.

The new M5 is using the 7 series chassis, lighter, more rigid, even with awd it is known to be a lot more dynamic than the F10. Also, today's automatic will be a lot cheaper, a lot more reliable, AND a lot better performing than now an "old" twin clutch setup.

Can't understand ZF 8 speed because DCT is a lot more superior and feels more responsive?...Having driven DCT, auto, and owning an MT, I think if you wanna talking "dynamics" of driving especially when putting transmission into the equation, just drive the manual car.

Unless you are comparing it to a 2003 MB ML350 step-tronic 5 speed auto, There's 0 difference between today's ZF 8 speed and a dct in terms of driving feel, actually DCT is just a bit more clunkier. All you are doing is jus pressing a button to change a gear, and DCT & ZF-8 up/down shift is almost identical nowadays if that's what you are calling a "dynamic" automatic driving.

After all, we have to get used to today's market. Manufacturers will use 1 chassis for most of their models (look at VW, MB, Audi, BMW) whether it's a sedan or an suv. They will also use one or two engine layout for all their lineups (look at volvo using that one 4 cylinder block for gas+diesel+hybrid actually all of their models). This "tuned" F10's V8 into the new M5 doesn't surprise me, similar things will happen to future M cars.
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      08-02-2017, 07:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
No idea what BMW was thinking when it decided to ditch the DCT for the ZF8.
That decision was all about profits for BMW. There's a long thread where this was discussed at length when BMW came out and said DCT couldn't handle the torque (which of course meant the many years old DCT design they're now using, not DCTs in general as was pointed out by many other examples in that thread).
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      08-02-2017, 07:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
I don't know man... Having owned 3 535s with the ZF8 and then a 435i M performance with the ZF8 then moving towards an E92 M3 with the DCT, there is no way i'd downgrade back to a auto transmission. No idea what BMW was thinking when it decided to ditch the DCT for the ZF8.
They were likely thinking two things

1) Cost cutting. They're using the 8 speed ZF everywhere else and probably get a nice price on it

2) The 8sp ZF spread is much larger than the DCT. This means the difference between 1st and 8th gear is bigger than in the DCT, allowing for lower average rpm for the engine and lowering consumption


Also, remember the guy who leads M division now comes from Audi RS. Yes, the same brand that builds understeering abominations now leads M.

Lots of 'performance' cars use the 8 speed ZF. It's in the Bentleys, Audi RS, etc.


Now BMW has left Porsche as the only manufacturer that uses a DCT in this segment.


I'll reserve final judgement until journalists drive it but it seems impossible that it will be as good. Plenty of other brands are trying to use the ZF for performance applications and whenever it's compared vs the DCT they say it's slower but smoother.

Between this and the God forsaken AWD retardedness (again led by the jackass from Audi RS), this is one M5 I have no interest in buying.
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      08-02-2017, 09:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
But new M5 will have AWD and be lighter than current M5. Looks great on paper, but will wait for road test, not that I will be buying a $100k car.
The new M5 allows the choice between two AWD modes (sport and comfort) and a rear wheel only mode.
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