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      06-29-2017, 04:37 AM   #1
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What camber and alignment setup is a good balance for road/track?

Hi peeps. I've read through a few threads on the m235i/240i to try and gather some info prior to asking but there's so much and still not sure. Hoping some people can help out with the below questions.
I plan do to circuit 6-8 track days a year and 1-2 motorkhana events. Have done a few track days over the years but nothing in the m240i as yet as I just ordered one. I'm going to put some camber plates in to get some better camber up front. I've used vorshlag camber plates on a previous mini so thinking to use these again unless someone can recommend something else which is better for some reason.

Does anyone know what the standard alignment specs are on the m240i/m235i?

What is a good balance in camber so it's still comfortable on the road and works well on track. Would -1.5 up front be enough or -2 be a little better? I hear these cars are prone to understreering a lot. Trying to dial that out.

Is there any camber adjustability at the back suspension in standard form?

Can you please recommend a suspension alignment that will work well as a road/occasional track car?

Cheers
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      06-29-2017, 09:40 AM   #2
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I'm running -3f/-2r

I would prefer -2.5f though.

I run with a small toe in in the back. 0 toe up front.

Make sure you read up on camber plates. Lots of people have had various noise issues with them. I'm not sure what the latest review is on the newest versions though.

I run the KW plates that come with the KW clubsport coilovers. No issues.

Last edited by Anthony235; 07-05-2017 at 11:10 AM..
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      06-29-2017, 11:53 AM   #3
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I run -2.5 front and -2.25 rear. It's a good balance for road/track. I have a little toe in the front and a little in the rear. I don't track nearly as much as Anthony does -- if you do, go with 0 toe in front.
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      06-29-2017, 01:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
I run -2.5 front and -2.25 rear. It's a good balance for road/track. I have a little toe in the front and a little in the rear. I don't track nearly as much as Anthony does -- if you do, go with 0 toe in front.
Did you get -2.25 in the rear from the standard suspension set up? If not what did you use to achieve that camber? Cheers
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      06-29-2017, 01:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Did you get -2.25 in the rear from the standard suspension set up? If not what did you use to achieve that camber? Cheers
Yeah, standard suspension setup. I don't know what it maxes out at, but I got at least 2.25 on stock rear suspension.
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      06-29-2017, 02:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
Yeah, standard suspension setup. I don't know what it maxes out at, but I got at least 2.25 on stock rear suspension.
Well that's awesome thanks. Would you happen to have an alignment sheet from your last shop set up that you could post if possible? Appreciated if so
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      06-29-2017, 02:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Well that's awesome thanks. Would you happen to have an alignment sheet from your last shop set up that you could post if possible? Appreciated if so
I don't -- sorry. My shop (West Coast Alignment in Gardena, CA) does everything by hand and they don't write down the specs unless you ask for them. I think my spec is the following (based on what they told me):

Camber: -2.5 front, -2.25 rear

Toe: 1/16 in front, 3/32 in rear.

Again, if you are tracking a lot like Anthony235 you should do zero toe in front.
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      06-29-2017, 02:41 PM   #8
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Thanks for that. With the rear lsd and camber plates and the suggested alignments above, does it elimate the understeer that I keep reading about?
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      06-29-2017, 02:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Thanks for that. With the rear lsd and camber plates and the suggested alignments above, does it elimate the understeer that I keep reading about?
I have a custom LSD from Diffsonline -- with that setup (LSD of some sort, proper alignment, tires), you should have little to no understeer. Maybe on a scale of -10 (1970s Porsche Turbo widowmaker snap oversteer into a tree) to 10 (Prius understeer) this would be maybe a 1 at best.
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      06-29-2017, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
I have a custom LSD from Diffsonline -- with that setup (LSD of some sort, proper alignment, tires), you should have little to no understeer. Maybe on a scale of -10 (1970s Porsche Turbo widowmaker snap oversteer into a tree) to 10 (Prius understeer) this would be maybe a 1 at best.
Excellent. So tyres and rims...will get a second set for track days. What do most guys recommend in wheel/tyre sizes?
Keeping in mind the camber plates and not changing any other suspension. I hear square set ups(this terminology was new to me).
I can get advans or else to fit in standard rim and tyre sizes. What would you recommend
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      06-29-2017, 03:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Excellent. So tyres and rims...will get a second set for track days. What do most guys recommend in wheel/tyre sizes?
Keeping in mind the camber plates and not changing any other suspension. I hear square set ups(this terminology was new to me).
I can get advans or else to fit in standard rim and tyre sizes. What would you recommend
Depends on what you're interested in. Anthony235 runs a pretty aggressive setup with 18x9.5 x 4 (I do not remember the offset), I think. Still, it's a 18 255/35 tire at all corners. My car is on 18x8.5 APEX ARC-8 wheels with 255/35 tires at all corners (pilot super sports -- I don't do much track work these days, so they make more sense).

Not many (read: no one) have been able to fit more than a 255 wide tire in the front (I think some race shop did it on a 228, but it was an actual race car, not a street car). If you want track tires, advans are ok, but you might want to look at Bridgeston RE-71Rs or Hankook RS4 or Dunlop Direzza II Star Specs. They're all pretty sticky.
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      06-29-2017, 04:39 PM   #12
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i'm -2.0 all around. Anymore than that and your tires will prematurely wear.
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      06-29-2017, 05:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
Depends on what you're interested in. Anthony235 runs a pretty aggressive setup with 18x9.5 x 4 (I do not remember the offset), I think. Still, it's a 18 255/35 tire at all corners. My car is on 18x8.5 APEX ARC-8 wheels with 255/35 tires at all corners (pilot super sports -- I don't do much track work these days, so they make more sense).

Not many (read: no one) have been able to fit more than a 255 wide tire in the front (I think some race shop did it on a 228, but it was an actual race car, not a street car). If you want track tires, advans are ok, but you might want to look at Bridgeston RE-71Rs or Hankook RS4 or Dunlop Direzza II Star Specs. They're all pretty sticky.

Would running a set of original wheels and r spec tyres in the same specs as 225 fronts, 245 rears work well with the alignment/camber plates?
Or original rear 8inch rims all round with 245 tyres do the job nicely?
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      06-29-2017, 05:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Would running a set of original wheels and r spec tyres in the same specs as 225 fronts, 245 rears work well with the alignment/camber plates?
Or original rear 8inch rims all round with 245 tyres do the job nicely?
Yeah, either or should be fine. But those stock wheels are pretty heavy and you could do with more rubber in the front -- helps with understeer. 225 is a pretty small front section width.
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      06-29-2017, 07:51 PM   #15
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I'm -2.9 up front and -2 in the rear. Zero toe up front and some in the rear. It feels neutral but is still easily rotated.

I'm running 245s, and now that I have a stiffer suspension set up (KW Clubsports like Anthony), I wish I had more rubber.
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Last edited by m3cmm; 06-29-2017 at 08:07 PM..
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      06-30-2017, 02:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
Yeah, either or should be fine. But those stock wheels are pretty heavy and you could do with more rubber in the front -- helps with understeer. 225 is a pretty small front section width.
Do you or anybody else run 255 tyres all round on the street as well? Any rubbing or issues doing so?
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      06-30-2017, 08:43 AM   #17
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If you're going to run all that tire and want the camber, I would invest in coil overs.

The stock suspension is really not up to the job. You have to look at camber, suspension, springs, sways, and tires all as one as changing one thing affects the traits of another. I would start with the shocks and springs.
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      06-30-2017, 02:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Do you or anybody else run 255 tyres all round on the street as well? Any rubbing or issues doing so?
I run that setup all the time.

Addressing Pparana 's comment, he's right -- it is a hollistic system that requires attention to all of the suspension to get it perfect.

The optimal setup is to run the car (with that much camber) with different dampers/shocks and springs, etc. However, it does work with stock hardware (save for the camber plates). I've had it this way for a few years -- it is fine, if not optimal (note -- I do have H&R swaybars, but my dampers/springs are stock). Just budget in when your suspension bits need replacing, go for some decent upgrades (whether that be a good shock/spring combo or some coils).
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      07-05-2017, 10:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
I run -2.5 front and -2.25 rear. It's a good balance for road/track. I have a little toe in the front and a little in the rear. I don't track nearly as much as Anthony does -- if you do, go with 0 toe in front.
Liquid, refresh my memory. What wheel/tire setup are you running up front?

I'm thinking about trying -2.5 up front as well. Not sure it will clear with my setup though.

Never mind, just saw you posted your specs.

Last edited by Anthony235; 07-05-2017 at 11:13 AM..
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      07-05-2017, 11:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidpaper View Post
Depends on what you're interested in. Anthony235 runs a pretty aggressive setup with 18x9.5 x 4 (I do not remember the offset), I think. Still, it's a 18 255/35 tire at all corners. My car is on 18x8.5 APEX ARC-8 wheels with 255/35 tires at all corners (pilot super sports -- I don't do much track work these days, so they make more sense).

Not many (read: no one) have been able to fit more than a 255 wide tire in the front (I think some race shop did it on a 228, but it was an actual race car, not a street car). If you want track tires, advans are ok, but you might want to look at Bridgeston RE-71Rs or Hankook RS4 or Dunlop Direzza II Star Specs. They're all pretty sticky.
Correct, my offsets are +45. But I run a 20mm spacer up front so it's effectively a +25 upfront.

I can probably run a 265 up front without issue now. 265 in the back is the issue for me. Think it would rub the outside fender.

If you wanted to run 265 all around I think it would go something like this:
18x9.5 +25 front
18x9.5 +50 rear

If you want to rotate the wheels then a +50 all around with a 25mm spacer up front would probably do it. Would require some custom wheel studs or bolts up front though. Don't think anyone makes any that support a 25mm spacer.

The other option is my +45 setup, but with an aggressive rear fender pull. I don't want to do that to the car though
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      07-05-2017, 11:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycaptain View Post
Do you or anybody else run 255 tyres all round on the street as well? Any rubbing or issues doing so?
I do. No rubbing issues. If it doesn't rub on the track it shouldn't rub on the street.
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      07-05-2017, 11:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
If you're going to run all that tire and want the camber, I would invest in coil overs.

The stock suspension is really not up to the job. You have to look at camber, suspension, springs, sways, and tires all as one as changing one thing affects the traits of another. I would start with the shocks and springs.
This.

It's all one system, but you don't have to spend big bucks to have a great feeling car and enjoy some track days. Some good brake pads and brake fluid is all you truly need to have a fun track day experience.

The problem (for me ) is when you start hunting laptimes. Then you start spending money on the entire setup. I really need to get that LSD now....

Last edited by Anthony235; 07-05-2017 at 11:54 AM..
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