[DuncanEJOnes]

Hi All,
I apologize in advance if this topic has been completely dealt with on another thread, but I have not found it. I have found numerous threads that have covered this topic, but none, or even in total, have left me comfortable with a decision one way or the other.

It is my understanding that there is a danger that draining the fluid (i'm not even considering a flush) and replacing it with new fluid raises the possibility that the detergent properties of the new fluid could dissolve the residue, sludge, in a relatively short period of time, and as a result release large amounts of metallic detritus that had been trapped in that sludge. The danger is that some of this metal will cause damage to parts in the transmission before the metal can be sequestered by the magnets and filter in the pan.
Had I been changing the fluid on a more timely basis, then there would not be any sludge buildup to retain the inevitable metalic shavings, or whatever the appropriate word is, and all the shavings would be filtered or attached to the magnets, having caused no damage.
So the problem seems to be the the large amount of metallic shavings being released in a short period of time.

Ok, thanks for bearing with me.

So, based on that understanding, does it make sense to only change the pan and filter initially, and reuse most of the original transmission fluid and a small amount of new. Pulling this out of thin air, say 90% old and 10 % new.
Would that not mean that, due to the smaller percentage of detergent properties of the new fluid, the sludge would be dissolved much more slowly, releasing a small amount of the problematic metal shavings. Released at a rate that is not antagonistic the transmission.
After a time, and i have no idea what that might be, the fluid could be drained again, no need for a new pan/filter yet, and it would be replaced again with another 90% old / 10% new. Do this process numerous times over many months. And maybe the sludge is removed and the metal filtered out.

Any validity to this process?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Duncan

[MysticRob]

Whoever told you all that, or posted any of that "information", needs to have his head examined. Sounds like something a despicable shop owner would say in an effort to bilk more money out of some poor unknowing soul.

Just get the proper transmission fluid and filter (built into the pan) from any of a dozen places and change it.
I used this kit:
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43

I just did my 134k mile tranny (first time according to service history) and had zero problems. Shifts like new again.

EDIT: I wouldn't use my email address as a user name either. Good way for spammers to add you to their list. Unless you're actually looking for Russian brides, cheap Viagra, etc.

[DuncanEJOnes]

Ok, thanks. No, i dreamed that up on my own. I am heartened to know that you did not have any problems. I will go ahead with the change.

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by duncan_e_jones@yahoo.com

Ok, thanks. No, i dreamed that up on my own. I am heartened to know that you did not have any problems. I will go ahead with the change.

Hell of an imagination you have then, Duncan.

Unless you hear weird noises, grinding, etc, (at that point you'd be wasting money on a fluid and filter change, and would need a tear-down and inspection) you can do a simple fluid and filter change and be fine.

If yours is simply shifting a bit odd like my recently purchased E90 was (delayed shifts like tranny was holding onto gears too long, slightly peaky between gears, etc) with so many miles, just change it using that kit or a similar one (that was the cheapest and bestest I could find a couple weeks ago). And of course change the fluid and filter regularly if you keep it. I plan on 50k change intervals in the future.

[F30-3'ER]

How many miles did you change your fluid at? I have 131k miles, and thinking about doing a drain and fill

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by LOVE4THEEE92COUPE

How many miles did you change your fluid at? I have 131k miles, and thinking about doing a drain and fill

I wrote in the last post above that it was at 134k miles. Dealership and carfax history didn't show it having ever been done so figured it went the full 134k without one unless some indy shop did it at some point. I doubt it though. Fluid was definitely needing changed based on the odd shifting issues being resolved almost immediately after the change. Old fluid was a very dark brown, almost black, color. New fluid is yellowish and clear. Lifetime fluid my arse.

[DuncanEJOnes]

Thanks again MysticRob. I appreciate the details. I have not heard any strange sounds or observed any odd behavior, so I think I am in good shape. I am acquiring the parts and will be using BMWs fluid. As expensive as it is, I'm sure that I will need a fluid replacement before my 335 does.

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by DuncanEJOnes

Thanks again MysticRob. I appreciate the details. I have not heard any strange sounds or observed any odd behavior, so I think I am in good shape. I am acquiring the parts and will be using BMWs fluid. As expensive as it is, I'm sure that I will need a fluid replacement before my 335 does.

My pleasure. Good news then. The ZF Lifeguard 6 fluid is apparently the same stuff as the BMW labeled fluid from what I've seen, and both meet the Shell 1374.5 spec. Supposedly Ford's Mercon SP is the exact same stuff, and is cheaper, but I haven't verified that. And some people use Pentosin, as well as some others, as they supposedly meet that spec too.

Figured I'd use the ZF fluid for a ZF transmission though, not wanting to risk screwing something up in case the interwebs are wrong.

[F30-3'ER]

Thanks MysticRob!

There is no way I can tell if it was done. Was just a little reluctant to do it at this amount of miles based on what some have said. Thanks for sharing your experience!.

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by LOVE4THEEE92COUPE

Thanks MysticRob!

There is no way I can tell if it was done. Was just a little reluctant to do it at this amount of miles based on what some have said. Thanks for sharing your experience!.

The idea that a fluid and filter change could do more harm than good may be a holdover from times long past when transmissions had different internals, weren't electronically controlled, etc... Or maybe if a tranny had other problems that a fluid and filter change somehow exacerbated...

My thinking is that maybe if the clutches got worn badly enough and enough clutch material got suspended in the old fluid, that the fluid itself would begin to act as clutch material. And then if that nasty, dirty, old fluid was then replaced, maybe the clean new fluid just wouldn't provide enough friction between the worn clutches... thinking out of my arse there though.

I've honestly never come across any 1st person account of anyone having problems post-change.

[IllSic_Design]

I did an oil and oil pan/filter change/flush at 120k and no problems, now at 139k.

Edit: I used Febi tranny fluid which according to another thread was the same as lifeguard 6(part numbers matched).

[STR8-6IX]

yes.. you are supposed to change every 60k meaning you are long overdue. get it done as soon as possible.

[335e92tx]

I did it at 60 and again at 120. Mechatronics are also prone to leaking (if you let it sit for any length of time) on early models around then so you can just do 2 birds.

downshift into first approaching stops is a little rough but not worth the 500$+ solenoids run.

[DuncanEJOnes]

Thanks MysticRob and all. I will sleep well at night now after doing this change!

[BKBMW335I]

Originally Posted by MysticRob

Whoever told you all that, or posted any of that "information", needs to have his head examined. Sounds like something a despicable shop owner would say in an effort to bilk more money out of some poor unknowing soul.

Just get the proper transmission fluid and filter (built into the pan) from any of a dozen places and change it.
I used this kit:
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43

I just did my 134k mile tranny (first time according to service history) and had zero problems. Shifts like new again.

EDIT: I wouldn't use my email address as a user name either. Good way for spammers to add you to their list. Unless you're actually looking for Russian brides, cheap Viagra, etc.

Awesome info and funny comedy at the end. I don't intend to threadjack in any kind of way but I was on the fence regarding doing this too but I wanted to ask a couple of questions:

1. How hard is this to do?

2. How long should it take?

3. If I took it somewhere to get it done (ASSuming I'm incapable), how much/what would be a decent price range I should expect to pay for it??

Sorry to OP, but I really need to know and didn't want to open another thread just to get these type of answers.

I appreciate your responses.

Thanks

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by BKBMW335I

Awesome info and funny comedy at the end. I don't intend to threadjack in any kind of way but I was on the fence regarding doing this too but I wanted to ask a couple of questions:

1. How hard is this to do?

2. How long should it take?

3. If I took it somewhere to get it done (ASSuming I'm incapable), how much/what would be a decent price range I should expect to pay for it??

Sorry to OP, but I really need to know and didn't want to open another thread just to get these type of answers.

I appreciate your responses.

Thanks

1. Not difficult at all. Drop pan. Put new pan on. Fill fluid. Really nothing complicated.

2. 30 min at a leisurely pace.

3. Roughly 4-500$

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by BKBMW335I

Awesome info and funny comedy at the end. I don't intend to threadjack in any kind of way but I was on the fence regarding doing this too but I wanted to ask a couple of questions:

1. How hard is this to do?

2. How long should it take?

3. If I took it somewhere to get it done (ASSuming I'm incapable), how much/what would be a decent price range I should expect to pay for it??

Sorry to OP, but I really need to know and didn't want to open another thread just to get these type of answers.

I appreciate your responses.

Thanks

1-2. If everything goes well maybe a couple hours if it's your first rodeo. Since I was on my garage floor with a jack and stands and had some complications, it took a little longer. First I had to remove the under-tray panels to get to the tranny. That's 15min just unscrewing bolts and removing trays. Another 10min to drain. Another 10-15min to remove old pan with integrated filter. Another 20min to install new pan and torque all 5,000 (LOL) tranny bolts in proper sequence. Another 30-45min to fill, bring fluid up to temp, and top off fluid.

The plastic drain plug on my pan was completely stripped, like someone had attempted it before and given up when he/she screwed it up, so I had to loosen all the bolts and drop the rear of the pan a bit more till I got most of it poured over the rear of the pan. And my cheapo transfer pump (effectively a very large syringe from local parts store) leaked horribly and made a nice mess. Next time I might use a very long clear hose and a funnel with someone standing up and pouring the fluid down into the tranny from above...

3. The DIY kit itself with the correct ZF fluid and filter was almost $300 shipped to the door. Likely more if you purchase from an indy shop or dealership. Maybe less if you can source the correct fluid (again Mercon SP MIGHT be the same stuff, and much cheaper) and parts. Plus labor might be another $200-400. Might want or need to do the mechatronic sleeve too, so maybe another 30min of labor there. Multiply everything by 1.5 or 2 if taking to a dealership, so anywhere between $500-800 depending on how badly they're trying to gouge you. It is a snooty BMW remember.

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

I did an oil and oil pan/filter change/flush at 120k and no problems, now at 139k.

Edit: I used Febi tranny fluid which according to another thread was the same as lifeguard 6(part numbers matched).

Was that job a giant mess? I was thinking about using a transfer pump and draining and filling twice..

[AlisoBob]

To do the job correctly, it goes like this.
1. Drain fluid, drop pan, replace filter, refill, and run for 10 minutes.
2. Drain Fluid again, just from the drain plug. Leave pan on.
3. Refill again, warm fluid, and top off to proper level.

Why? There is allot of fluid in the valve body and T/C that you cannot drain. Using the "Double Dump" method on a neglected transmission replaced over 90% of the fluid to get all the nasty stuff out, and the good stuff in.

If you are good on regular maintenance after this, just a single dump and refill will probably suffice...

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by AlisoBob

To do the job correctly, it goes like this.
1. Drain fluid, drop pan, replace filter, refill, and run for 10 minutes.
2. Drain Fluid again, just from the drain plug. Leave pan on.
3. Refill again, warm fluid, and top off to proper level.

Why? There is allot of fluid in the valve body and T/C that you cannot drain. Using the "Double Dump" method on a neglected transmission replaced over 90% of the fluid to get all the nasty stuff out, and the good stuff in.

If you are good on regular maintenance after this, just a single dump and refill will probably suffice...

Mine was double dumped at about 60k mikes, but I'm at 96 now. Seems I should get the darn pan and do it right

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by AlisoBob

To do the job correctly, it goes like this.
1. Drain fluid, drop pan, replace filter, refill, and run for 10 minutes.
2. Drain Fluid again, just from the drain plug. Leave pan on.
3. Refill again, warm fluid, and top off to proper level.

Why? There is allot of fluid in the valve body and T/C that you cannot drain. Using the "Double Dump" method on a neglected transmission replaced over 90% of the fluid to get all the nasty stuff out, and the good stuff in.

If you are good on regular maintenance after this, just a single dump and refill will probably suffice...

This is exactly how I did my change or rather semi-flush. Wanted to try to get as much of the old oil out as possible.

It wasn't a HUGE ordeal(did it in driveway on jack stands) but it did make a little mess. Took me probably 2 or so hours as I took my time on a weekend.

[whyzee125]

Drain and fill with confidence. Just be sure to use OEM ZF lifeguard 6 fluid. Flushing a transmission can cause issues as some methods cause fluid to flow backwards but a drain and fill will just leave you with cleaner fluid. Do it!