[Nobby Clark]

Indy Ref 2.

Go...

[DB118D]

It can go. As far away as humanely possible.

It has zero to do with a "better Scotland" and everything to do with a temper tantrum and smoke and mirrors to stop awkward questions about the SNP's government record

[MashinBenzin]

Go for it Scotland, pick the Union that you think has more chance of long-term success.

If I was Scottish...I'd be voting to leave the UK.

Not because I think the concept of Brexit was absolutely doomed to failure, but because I believe it's happening for the wrong reasons and, therefore, there will be a lack of national will and ability to make it a success once it becomes obvious how wrong those reasons were.

[1966-TR4]

Brexit made the second referendum inevitable, absolute lunacy on Cameron's part. It has been a miserable few months to be a Scot who believes in the UK and Europe. If the last Indref is anything to go by, the logical debate around which market is actually more important to Scotland will barely surface, and will instead be swamped with emotional rhetoric. It wasn't enough last time, but this time around there will be many natural Indy No voters who feel thoroughly disillusioned about what has happened with Europe, and I fear it will be enough to tip the balance.

The whole thing has played straight into Sturgeon's hands.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by 1966-TR4

Brexit made the second referendum inevitable, absolute lunacy on Cameron's part. It has been a miserable few months to be a Scot who believes in the UK and Europe. If the last Indref is anything to go by, the logical debate around which market is actually more important to Scotland will barely surface, and will instead be swamped with emotional rhetoric. It wasn't enough last time, but this time around there will be many natural Indy No voters who feel thoroughly disillusioned about what has happened with Europe, and I fear it will be enough to tip the balance.

The whole thing has played straight into Sturgeon's hands.

^^This

Like lots of Scots, I'd prefer to be part of both the UK and Europe, and I don't subscribe to the ideal of 'independence at any cost'. Whatever you think about Sturgeon & the SNP, they've given a voice to Scotland and Scottish interests in a largely Tory political landscape that doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone north of the Watford Gap, either politically or economically.

Chuck in Labour's surrender-monkey implosion, and you've created the perfect petri-dish in Scotland to incubate nationalism & separatism.

Sturgeon's timing in calling for IndyRef2 is immaculate. May is distracted by the complexity and reality of Brexit, can't afford to antagonise Scottish voters too much by bluntly denying permission for a referendum, but by the same token, won't want to antagonise the EU negotiators who are already making warm noises about welcoming an independent Scotland into an economic arrangement a la Norway etc.

It's a complete clusterfuck from start to finish. Well done Dave, this is all your fault, and guess what - it'll be our kids that have to deal with the consequences.

[DB118D]

The only voice the SNP have given to anyone, is the voice of rabble rousing in the HoC and a voice to an army of Milk & Honey idealists.

As it stands just now, there is no sound economic case for leaving the UK. The SNP bang on about Tory austerity while failing to mention that SNP austerity on an independent Scotland would be far, far worse than anything seen to date.

They'll lie and lie and produce meme's galore to facilitate their lies. Their own elected members lie time and time again.

They don't speak for Scotland and they certainly don't speak for me

[isleaiw1]

i find the whole concept of wanting independence so as to stay in a different political union somewhat ironic.... especially as they are unlikely to meet the criteria to join and will need to join a queue!

rumour is that May will p*ss on her parade by allowing the vote after the exit occurs.

[73henny]

They're muppets the SNP. Every one of them.
Rank hypocrites. Can't count. Delusionally think they can remain in the EU. I could go on, and on, and on.
It's also telling that neither the SNP or any of their brainwashed followers have any idea how to fill the £14.8 billion deficit. Not that they mention that inconvenient truth much. The fact the deficit is twice the level that sent Greece bust won't worry their delusional followers.
Any SNP voters on here care to make their case?

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by 73henny

They're muppets the SNP. Every one of them.
Rank hypocrites. Can't count. Delusionally think they can remain in the EU. I could go on, and on, and on.
It's also telling that neither the SNP or any of their brainwashed followers have any idea how to fill the £14.8 billion deficit. Not that they mention that inconvenient truth much. The fact the deficit is twice the level that sent Greece bust won't worry their delusional followers.
Any SNP voters on here care to make their case?

SNP 2014 - Independence isn't based on oil

SNP 2017 - Independence in 2014 was actually based on oil and we lied. But hey, we're having another vote and we want you to ignore that fact that we lied so massively and vote for us again

Why would anyone vote for an outcome based solely on lies

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by DB118D

The only voice the SNP have given to anyone, is the voice of rabble rousing in the HoC and a voice to an army of Milk & Honey idealists.

As it stands just now, there is no sound economic case for leaving the UK. The SNP bang on about Tory austerity while failing to mention that SNP austerity on an independent Scotland would be far, far worse than anything seen to date.

They'll lie and lie and produce meme's galore to facilitate their lies. Their own elected members lie time and time again.

They don't speak for Scotland and they certainly don't speak for me

+1 well said. Me neither.

Economic reality of independence is terrifying (presently c. £15 bn a year deficit), but will be countered with "milk, honey, unicorns, social justice claims or simple plain lies" delivered in the medium to hit their target audience : memes through twitter.

The vast majority of SNP politcians have shown they haven't the first clue about economics. Or actually any ability to run schools, trains, police forces, hospitals, payment schemes for farmers *, etc., etc.

* The new computer system still not working, over budget by the same total projected costs of independence 178 mn, and costing 4 mn a month - 1 simple system. And we want these clowns to do the same with every other institute in Scotland (tax service, pensions, benefits, car licenses, dog licences............).

So independence will bring an economic wasteland overseen by incompetent clapping seals. Still, we can wave our wee flags.

I was denied the vote last time as I live abroad. Scots born and bred. Own my house in Scotland. Pay taxes. But, no, denied while 16 yr olds were gifted a vote. Denied a say in my own country.

I will do everything I can this time to FUCK the SNP and this vote. And that is from someone who is normally politically apathetic.

D.

[MashinBenzin]

Fascinating to read all the opinions from you guys in Scotland. Completely different to how I thought I would feel if I was Scottish, but reading them makes me think that in reality my opinion would be the opposite of what I stated earlier in the thread. If that makes any sense whatsoever. What I should say is, persuasively argued chaps!

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Fascinating to read all the opinions from you guys in Scotland. Completely different to how I thought I would feel if I was Scottish, but reading them makes me think that in reality my opinion would be the opposite of what I stated earlier in the thread. If that makes any sense whatsoever. What I should say is, persuasively argued chaps!

The SNP and their band of cultish clone droid followers will claim that they are great for Scotland.

The reality is our NHS is in the shitter, our Police service is massively over budget, our education standards are slipping* and they have no clue when it comes to the economy

*FFS, a school in the Education Secretary's own constituency is begging for parents to come forward to help teach maths because of SNP imposed teacher shortages!!!

[Eddieo]

Wee Nicola would be better just concentrating on her Day job

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by Eddieo

Wee Nicola would be better just concentrating on her Day job

But that would bring about far too many probing questions as to why she and her party are failing Scotland

[JD6]

Several of the 27 EU states don't want Scotland to join the EU by itself, as that would fan the flames of their own separatist movements. Given that all 27 have a veto, it simply isn't realistic for Scotland to expect a deal with the EU in the months between an indyref and Brexit.

They could apply once outside, but that would involve them accepting the Euro, and it would take a decade.

Looks like an easy choice for May - offer a post-Brexit indyref. If common sense prevails and they Remain, Sturgeon is fired and SNP wither. If they are dumb enough to vote for independence, leave them to it, but it won't be pretty.

[Torque of the Devil]

Originally Posted by Eddieo

Wee Nicola would be better just concentrating on her Day job

They're not filming any Lord of the Rings films at the moment though

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Indy Ref 2.

Go...

Sorry guys, caught short.

I meant to say, Go f*** yer sel Nicola, ya slimy venomous reptile.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by DB118D

SNP 2014 - Independence isn't based on oil

SNP 2017 - Independence in 2014 was actually based on oil and we lied. But hey, we're having another vote and we want you to ignore that fact that we lied so massively and vote for us again

Why would anyone vote for an outcome based solely on lies?

Dunno, maybe ask the 62.9 million who voted for Trump? Or the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit. Or even the 1.7 million who voted Yes based on SNP porkies, or the 2.0 million who voted No based on Tory/Labour 'alternative facts' and Campaign Fear as it was dubbed by the media.

At the end of the day, people make a judgement based on what they read & hear in mainstream and social media, and in the end vote for what they 'feel' is right.

Whether or not you like or dislike the SNP, they are no better or worse than any other political party, and will tell voters exactly what they think they want to hear.

The rest is up to you....

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

+1 well said. Me neither.

Economic reality of independence is terrifying (presently c. £15 bn a year deficit), but will be countered with "milk, honey, unicorns, social justice claims or simple plain lies" delivered in the medium to hit their target audience : memes through twitter.

The vast majority of SNP politcians have shown they haven't the first clue about economics. Or actually any ability to run schools, trains, police forces, hospitals, payment schemes for farmers *, etc., etc.

* The new computer system still not working, over budget by the same total projected costs of independence 178 mn, and costing 4 mn a month - 1 simple system. And we want these clowns to do the same with every other institute in Scotland (tax service, pensions, benefits, car licenses, dog licences............).

So independence will bring an economic wasteland overseen by incompetent clapping seals. Still, we can wave our wee flags.

I was denied the vote last time as I live abroad. Scots born and bred. Own my house in Scotland. Pay taxes. But, no, denied while 16 yr olds were gifted a vote. Denied a say in my own country.

I will do everything I can this time to FUCK the SNP and this vote. And that is from someone who is normally politically apathetic.

D.

In no way defending the SNP, but what's the alternative? Labour make clapping seals sound like a really safe idea. Tories? "Lol". And don't get me started on the Lib-Dems...

Labour at a national and local level couldn't be trusted to run a piss-up in a brewery, and unless or until they're able to ditch that clunge-bucket Corbyn and his antediluvian left-wing attitudes they haven't a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected, here or anywhere else. That twat Kezia Dugdale will say whatever she thinks will make her look good to Scottish voters until Big Jezza deigns to travel north to his Lost Kingdom then she changes her tune quicktime.

Oddly, I actually quite rate Ruth Davidson as a politician, even if she does represent the Axis of Evil. If the Tories ever manage to get their head out of the Home Counties' ass they might just find a bit more sympathy in the North......

[AndyEssex330d]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

Indy Ref 2.

Go...

They can fucking leave bunch of tax sucking bastards

That's the SNP...not Scottish people, they don't represent the majority in anyway.

Really boils my blood the stupidity of some of them.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by AndyEssex330d

They can fucking leave bunch of tax sucking bastards

That's the SNP...not Scottish people, they don't represent the majority in anyway.

Really boils my blood the stupidity of some of them.

I blame the English*

If it wasn't for you lot and your 'fuck Johnny Foreigner' attitude to the EU we wouldn't be talking about IndyRef2 and Ms Sturgeon wouldn't have the wind in her sails....

* And the Welsh, but most of all the Three Stooges: Farage, Johnston & Gove. The antithesis of three wise men. Lying, self-serving scumbags... don't see any of those three cunts suffering financially from any of this.

[Rbrown]

Not for me.

Happy in the UK.