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      03-07-2017, 04:07 PM   #1
paul e
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Dinan Stage 1 vs MPPSK

I'm a bit confused, please straighten me out…new to BMW as well…

Dinan Stage 1 costs $1399, gives 412 HP / 430 lb-ft of torque and has a warranty that matches the BMW warranty.

The MPPSK is 355 HP / 355 lb-ft, costs $2820 plus muffler tips, at least +$500 more, and also comes with the warranty.

So what's up here, what am I missing?

Thanks.
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      03-07-2017, 04:38 PM   #2
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Not much.

I went with the Dinan S1.
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      03-07-2017, 04:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
I'm a bit confused, please straighten me outÂ…new to BMW as wellÂ…

Dinan Stage 1 costs $1399, gives 412 HP / 430 lb-ft of torque and has a warranty that matches the BMW warranty.

The MPPSK is 355 HP / 355 lb-ft, costs $2820 plus muffler tips, at least +$500 more, and also comes with the warranty.

So what's up here, what am I missing?

Thanks.
Keep in mind that Dinan's way of measuring HP and TRQ is a little different (you can find more info on that from the Dinan rep in the B58 Technical Forum in the Dinan Stage 1 release thread - I would link it but not sure how, sorry).

With that said:

Dinan advertises 412hp and 438trq. These are at the crank not the wheel.

Dinan also measures the car's stock hp and trq prior to the tune and gets 381hp and 386trq, versus 320hp and 330trq BMW advertises. I'm not sure if someone has dyno'd their stock B58 but roughly the difference in the numbers accounts for about a 15% drivetrain loss. I'm being conservative however as the loss on new cars probably isn't as bad as 15%, maybe in the range of 11-13%...I digress...in any case BMW slightly underrates their cars.

With that in mind if you compare Dinan's 412/438 to MPPSK 355/379, it is likely that using Dinan's method to measure an MPPSK car you'll get numbers much higher than what BMW says (let's estimate +15% which means 408/436).

EDIT PS: I have MPPSK but am looking to get MPPSK compatible stage 1 when it is released I don't think you can go wrong either way but also you won't get much of a exhaust/sound benefit unless you upgrade that too with Dinan.
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      03-07-2017, 07:04 PM   #4
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Both tunes will produce roughly the same hp at the wheels. BMW forces you to buy the exhaust with it
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      03-07-2017, 07:11 PM   #5
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I'm trying to decide which one to go with too, or both if that's an option.

Does the Dinan warranty change if I choose to install the stage 1 myself? Nearest Dinan installer is 200 miles away, installation instructions looked pretty simple.

Gitte, have you thought about the Dinan Sport Performance tuner with your MPPSK?
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      03-07-2017, 07:56 PM   #6
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I don't know a lot about the Dinan tune, but BMW's hp is always underrated. I think the previous PPK puts down close to 350-370 at the crank, so I'm sure the B58's is even higher.
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      03-07-2017, 08:01 PM   #7
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MPPSK claims 35 HP and 39 TRQ increase, Dyno's I've seen say that's maybe a bit low but about right. Dinan Elite claims max of 47 HP 60 TRQ increase but chart they offered shows a 31 HP and 52 TRQ increase. If an MPPSK approved version of the Dinan Elite will give me an additional +30 HP and +50 TRQ then sign me up. I'm talking a bit above my pay grade here but at some point the infamous fuel cap will come into play and I'm not sure anyone knows exactly when that will become an issue, I've read somewhere it's around 415 WHP which I think MPPSK and Dinan Elite would be close to.

edit: I think I'm all goofed up on the fuel cap, anyone got a handle on it?
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Last edited by Beek; 03-07-2017 at 08:10 PM..
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      03-07-2017, 08:14 PM   #8
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What is the "fuel cap"?
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      03-07-2017, 08:30 PM   #9
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are we saying BMW is using a fuel limiter?

also the Dinan Elite route will eventually generate even more gains once you add an intake and catback but in the end itll also cost more than the MPPSK

and I believe the weak chain is still the ZF unit
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      03-07-2017, 10:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Flier View Post
I'm trying to decide which one to go with too, or both if that's an option.

Does the Dinan warranty change if I choose to install the stage 1 myself? Nearest Dinan installer is 200 miles away, installation instructions looked pretty simple.

Gitte, have you thought about the Dinan Sport Performance tuner with your MPPSK?
I believe you can install stage 1 yourself with warranty intact as long the cause of problem isn't an incorrect install.

I have not considered dinan sport for two reasons (1) no warranty and (2) sport has not been designed and tested to stack on MPPSK and therefore not sure whether it would add to hp/trq or override existing software or some other outcome.

Definitely interested in the elite stage 1 for MPPSK once it is released.
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      03-08-2017, 12:32 AM   #11
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Others are better qualified to explain this I suspect but my understanding is that there is a DME fueling hard cap at around 400 WHP and so far the only way to exceed that cap is with a Meth/Water injection system.
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      03-08-2017, 08:49 AM   #12
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elite stage 1 doesnt look to really yield alot of power either
theres some more torque over the sport at higher rpms
none of the tunes at this point yield enuf power for me to pull the trigger
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      03-08-2017, 12:28 PM   #13
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Don't forget that the MPPSK includes an M-Performance exhaust system, which is roughly $1300. You don't get an exhaust system with the Dinan Stage 1 or any of their other tunes. So, more of an apples-to-apples comparison (tune only), it would be more like $1400 vs. $1500. Advantage with the Dinan is that you can go to S2 or S3, etc., by paying only the difference between your S1, and you can pick your own exhaust system.
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      03-08-2017, 08:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
I'm a bit confused, please straighten me out…new to BMW as well…

Dinan Stage 1 costs $1399, gives 412 HP / 430 lb-ft of torque and has a warranty that matches the BMW warranty.

The MPPSK is 355 HP / 355 lb-ft, costs $2820 plus muffler tips, at least +$500 more, and also comes with the warranty.

So what's up here, what am I missing?

Thanks.
BMW is a flash tune, Dinan is a piggyback ... That being said power is not factor in pricing (brand name is) ... JB4 makes more power than both and costs less than half
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      03-09-2017, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
BMW is a flash tune, Dinan is a piggyback ... That being said power is not factor in pricing (brand name is) ... JB4 makes more power than both and costs less than half
With no warranty at all, not allowed in California, racing vehicles only.
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      03-09-2017, 10:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
With no warranty at all, not allowed in California, racing vehicles only.
I said power is not a factor in determining price and i gave an example of a tune that offers more power but costs less.

You replied by proving my point that power is not a factor in price
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      03-09-2017, 10:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Don't forget that the MPPSK includes an M-Performance exhaust system, which is roughly $1300. You don't get an exhaust system with the Dinan Stage 1 or any of their other tunes. So, more of an apples-to-apples comparison (tune only), it would be more like $1400 vs. $1500. Advantage with the Dinan is that you can go to S2 or S3, etc., by paying only the difference between your S1, and you can pick your own exhaust system.
The "lack" of the exhaust is actually a bonus, at least for me. Not at all interested in a nice drone at highway speeds or any other "feature" of the exhaust.

Also it seems odd that Dinan can get the power without having to open up the exhaust, as the MPPSK does.
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      03-09-2017, 10:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I said power is not a factor in determining price and i gave an example of a tune that offers more power but costs less.

You replied by proving my point that power is not a factor in price
Yes, just illustrating that further. No offense intended.
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      03-09-2017, 10:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
Yes, just illustrating that further. No offense intended.
None taken
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      03-09-2017, 12:27 PM   #20
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From my understanding (and please correct me if I am mistaken), the warranties also work differently. The Dinan tune will actually void your BMW warranty, however Dinan will match/cover if anything goes wrong. The MPPSK is directly from BMW and does not alter your factory warranty whatsoever.

In reality, there may be no functional differences. I do not have any experience and perhaps those that have worked with Dinan in the past can comment.
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      03-09-2017, 12:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul e View Post
The "lack" of the exhaust is actually a bonus, at least for me. Not at all interested in a nice drone at highway speeds or any other "feature" of the exhaust.

Also it seems odd that Dinan can get the power without having to open up the exhaust, as the MPPSK does.
Nope, not correct. The MPE does not "drone". I've got one on my car (installed at port) and it's fine. It is not required to get the additional power, it's just part of a package. You can't buy just the power kit any more like I did for my 2013 335i - it now is bundled with the exhaust for the B58-engined cars. The exhaust makes very little difference in power, as it's only an axle-back muffler.
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      03-09-2017, 01:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleruckus View Post
From my understanding (and please correct me if I am mistaken), the warranties also work differently. The Dinan tune will actually void your BMW warranty, however Dinan will match/cover if anything goes wrong. The MPPSK is directly from BMW and does not alter your factory warranty whatsoever.

In reality, there may be no functional differences. I do not have any experience and perhaps those that have worked with Dinan in the past can comment.
No, absolutely incorrect. Dinan does not and has never "voided" your BMW warranty. The Dinan parallel warranty is for situations where repairs are denied under the BMW warranty, and Dinan then picks up the tab. It has been this way for years and has not changed.

The other factor is that the M-Performance tune has 1 level only, whereas the Dinan has stages 1-4, with 4 being extreme and including a higher-output turbocharger in addition to the software.

I have the MPPK and MPE and am fine with the modest power increase and other items that the MPPK provides (like the exhaust burble, etc.).
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