[dxb335d]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7358372.stm


Make your mind up.

Black BM is an M5!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7358372.stm


Make your mind up.

Black BM is an M5!

Interesting find Carlos. Those 2 spins just wouldn't have happened unless the van had been there. You can bet it wasn't parked out on show like it was in the film as well.

That's where they lose my support. If the vans were made very prominent, then it would slow down motorists in the area. If you follow that they are only used where excessive speed is a problem, then this makes sense.

But .. they hide the vans behind bushes etc because they don't want people to slow down. They want to catch and prosecute them. Which does nothing for safety at all.

[F31-340i]

The first spinner is what, a Toyota Avensis Estate, doing 83mph?

I'm a bit surprised that just straight line hard braking caused such loss of control - surely the standard fit ABS should stop this happening? Perhaps something else was wrong with the car, but it seemed new enough to be basically as it left the factory.

The second spinner looks a bit like a E36 coupe but hard to tell - again this car should have ABS, but its not clear how that spin started.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by ///ajd

The first spinner is what, a Toyota Avensis Estate, doing 83mph?

I'm a bit surprised that just straight line hard braking caused such loss of control - surely the standard fit ABS should stop this happening? Perhaps something else was wrong with the car, but it seemed new enough to be basically as it left the factory.

The second spinner looks a bit like a E36 coupe but hard to tell - again this car should have ABS, but its not clear how that spin started.

No mate, the weight has been transferred very quickly, and there is a lsight curve there so the steering wheel would have been at an angle, although not to sharp but enough to make a car become ''unstable'' couple that with a poor driver and the resultant accident happened. Point is it was caused by panic braking by a ''saferty camera van'' which is supposedley there to ''reduce accidents''

[Cafe.Racer]

Wouldn't surprise me if the accidents are added to the stats so that they can keep bringing the van out onto that stretch.

I have to say, though, if you can't brake in a (relatively) straight line from 80mph without losing control, you are an accident waiting to happen - you could argue that they're doing us a service weeding out the muppets.

[beemerbird]

We have a mobile 'speed safety camera tranny van' patrols around Hull and the surrounding area. One particular place they use to lure their victims is a 40 mph zone coming off a dual lane fly-over that also has a progressive tight bend to it. Once the curve has 'straightened out' you are on the straight of the dual carriageway heading out of the City. Obviously a good point at which to 'floor it' except it's still a 40 mph zone for a further 200 yards or so.

Definately easy pickings IMO and I know of two seperate accidents (rear end shunts involving several vehicles) that have occurred at that point because people 'hit the brakes' when they spot the van. So no, in this instance the 'speed safety camera van' is creating more problems than it is supposed to alleviate. But then, revenue is being collected.

[F31-340i]

I know what you're saying Carlos, but when I've braked very hard, even in cars without ABS, I've never had a car swerve like that on a normal surface. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough!

Having flung several ESP equipped AMG Mercs around MIRA on the simulated black ice it is very hard to get modern cars with safety aids to misbehave in such a way. Admittedly maybe the Toyota only had ABS, not a complete ESP system, but even so the car should still have undergone balanced braking forces taking into account tyre grip (hence minimising the influence that would have on inducing yaw, hence a spin). You can watch videos of cars testing ABS with one half of the cars tyres on ice, the other not and its ability to stop a car in a straight line is very impressive (non-ABS cars spin immediately).

The weight shift would as you say imbalance the car, but I'm surprised this proved so difficult to control. Perhaps there was a lot of stuff in his boot! Makes you think though.

(PS agree about the fact that the Police are causing these accidents - ironic that this crash will up the stats and create more speed related crack downs! What you might call a self licking lollipop!)

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by ///ajd

I know what you're saying Carlos, but when I've braked very hard, even in cars without ABS, I've never had a car swerve like that on a normal surface. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough!

Having flung several ESP equipped AMG Mercs around MIRA on the simulated black ice it is very hard to get modern cars with safety aids to misbehave in such a way. Admittedly maybe the Toyota only had ABS, not a complete ESP system, but even so the car should still have undergone balanced braking forces taking into account tyre grip (hence minimising the influence that would have on inducing yaw, hence a spin). You can watch videos of cars testing ABS with one half of the cars tyres on ice, the other not and its ability to stop a car in a straight line is very impressive (non-ABS cars spin immediately).

The weight shift would as you say imbalance the car, but I'm surprised this proved so difficult to control. Perhaps there was a lot of stuff in his boot! Makes you think though.

(PS agree about the fact that the Police are causing these accidents - ironic that this crash will up the stats and create more speed related crack downs! What you might call a self licking lollipop!)

No matter what aids the car has, piling on the brakes and with some lock will de-stabalise a car. Maybe he was coming down from 160? lol

These tests you mention i doubt were conducted at over 50-60mph though. No doubt the guy was probably a muppet but in theory it could happen to anyone when caught unawares.

[mjh93sa]

Some of the extra footage comes from a video that Norfolk Safety(?) Scamera Partnership have released. Available here:

http://media.edp24.co.uk/Video/08/sh...fetyCamera.wmv

It has caused a bit of a furore amongst bikers regarding the "137mph" bike.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/conte...2014:13:50:993

As a few people have pointed out, who normally go around in high vis jackets and plain white helmets? Also, if the bike is doing that speed, just how fast is the Shogun going?

[dxb335d]

I thought vans got every car coming towards them, it seems the operator zooms in on one particular vehicle. So if two people were speeding together it would get the first one and not the 2nd.

Also WHy did he get the biker at 137 and 110 whats the point of that? or was it to help the biker out to do him at the lesser speed?

[Bumps]

Was half expecting Alan Partridge to pop up in that video

Speed cameras are all shit, cynical and insulting. I'd love to see some (independent) stats of the percentage of them actually sited at accident blackspots, including mobile ones, and their actual impact upon accidents. For instance, there have been 2 fatalities and numerous serious accidents at 2 successive junctions within 3/4 mile on the A32 near me in the last 3 years. Speed cameras? Not one, and I wouldn't mind if they were there. One of the victims was a 17 year old girl, but apparently these junctions aren't at a blackspot......

I've said it before (and no doubt will again) but cameras are yet another example of governments and their subordinate authorities taxing under the name of something far more 'friendly' or palatable (eg VED etc as environmental and cameras as road safety). Cameras will never take the place of improved driver training, but that's probably filed in the "too difficult" or "too expensive" box. Australia has proved that draconian speed limit enforcement reduces driving standards, as once you start to lose a generation that grew into it, as it were, the generation that has only known the new system thinks that safe driving is doing the speed limit, and switch off, and the accident rate starts to creep up. And other people just become brainwashed into that state of mind, and the situation is further compounded by watching the speedo like a hawk, rather than the road and your mirrors, rather than doing the latter and judging your speed accordingly. This latter driving style is what I was taught to do, and it often results in driving below the limit when the conditions dictate, rather than assuming that the posted limit is safe.

[Gibbo]

On my way back from the Rolling Road day on Saturday there were speed cameras out in Guildford. The road is a 30 limit between Slyfield where Vines BMW is and the town centre. It really should be a 40 limit as it's an open single lane road but the cameras were out on top of tripods one pointing in each direction and 3 police cars hidden behind a hedge on another parallel road. Luckly my mate was ahead of me and called me on the phone to warn me they were there. Don't you love bluetooth!

Anyhow this is really poor no high visability van and cameras that look like they could be used for surveying rather than speeding. I looked at the surrey saftey camera website last night. It shows the fixed ones on a map and says we can have mobile units at any place at anytime. I thought they had to say where the sites would be but I guess I am wrong.

So Saturday I am sure they got plenty of sensible people doing 40 ish who are in the wrong but no big deal. All it will do is hack these people off with points and a fine and achieve nothing for road saftey. What a shame our roads have come to this.

[mjh93sa]

That sounds more like ANPR work to me Gibbo, having the cars waiting to go after them.

Saw the unmarked 330d here again today, fortunately having already given someone a tug.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by mjh93sa

That sounds more like ANPR work to me Gibbo, having the cars waiting to go after them.

Saw the unmarked 330d here again today, fortunately having already given someone a tug.

They had 2 bikes at each end and a couple of cars parked up in the petrol station just down the road. So they had atleast 5 cars and 4 bikes on the job.

[Hotcoupe]

Gibbo Quote:
Originally Posted by mjh93sa
That sounds more like ANPR work to me Gibbo, having the cars waiting to go after them.

Saw the unmarked 330d here again today, fortunately having already given someone a tug.


They had 2 bikes at each end and a couple of cars parked up in the petrol station just down the road. So they had atleast 5 cars and 4 bikes on the job.

To be fair Gibbo, the plod in Guildford rarely have anything better to do during the day time and it must get quite boring for them.Can you imagine how they struggle to keep the figures coming in, it's a no brainer to go for the easy targets.

[networkguy]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I thought vans got every car coming towards them, it seems the operator zooms in on one particular vehicle. So if two people were speeding together it would get the first one and not the 2nd.

Correct (and google will give you lots on this).

The camera has to be operated by a real person and here is the best bit.

By law, the operative can't just pull the trigger at random. He must have "reasonable grounds to suspect the vehicle is speeding" BEFORE he activates the device!!!

My own view base on this is that most of these tickets are therefore not legal but it would be your word against the operative so I think the chances of getting away with this are slim (although some people have contested on these grounds and won).

[NFS]

There was a little snippit in Top Gear this month about 4 lads in Canberra who supposedly stole the number plate of a camera van while it was parked.

They then fixed it to their own vehicle and drove past the van at high speed 17 times during the day.

The automated billing system did not detect this and issued 17 tickets to the speed camera operators.

I wish this was true:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/snaptrap.asp

[PhilR]

I think it depends when and what speed camera's are used for. I have no issues with speed camera outside schools and other built up areas where there are pedestrians.

On the other hand I cannot tolerate speed cameras on other roads with faster moving traffic and in particular on roads with the National Speed Limit. IMO the average motorist diverts too much attention looking out for speed cameras which is both distracting and presents it's own dangers.

I have just driven to Windsor and back at the weekend and was amazed by the number of average speed cameras on the M40, M1, A1 etc. In most cases they were completely unecessary and far too restrictive.

IMO the motorist is an easy target, for the government with road tax hikes, congestion charges, fuel tax etc etc. not to mention the vast sums of money generated from speeding fines.

Interesting that there are proposals to reduce the points endorsed on our licenses for speeding just a little bit. Less points = More Fines ££££££££

The car is a large part of the British culture and the Goverment is bleeding the motorist dry wrapped up as 'Save the Planet' and in 'the interests of safety'. If we all left our cars at home for ONE day and used public transport to commute to work Britan would grind to a halt. Transport Minister would probably resign due to gross embarrasment. The Goverment would loose millions in tax revenues not to mention the losses attributable directlty to the already fragile economy as most of us would never get to work.

Lets be pragmatic about this, the Government doesn't want you and I to use public transport unless it's a profitable viable soultion. In most areas of Britain public transport is crap and anyway who wants to travel to work on a bus or a train sitting next to "that sweaty man"

Motorists are up in arms over the recent change in road tax banding etc. If the goverment doubled the charges overnight how many of us would still pay it.......? Exactly......They have the majority of us over a barrell..... Verbatim

PhilR

[beemerbird]

Phil - excellent write up. Wise words mate.

[PhilR]

I needed a hot cup of tea and 2 sugars to calm down after writing that............I was almost on a mission but feel much better for getting it off my chest, so to speak

[beemerbird]

Always best to vent love, last thing you want is a build up of resentment. Causes no end of emotional trauma.

[PhilR]

Cannot vent enough - it's feels great.......that's how Hitler started you know and look what mess he got into.