[termigni]

Honda offered standard HID on S2000 back in 1999. C'mon BMW we still get halogen headlights on base 3 series.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by termigni

Honda offered standard HID on S2000 back in 1999. C'mon BMW we still get halogen headlights on base 3 series.

I woudn't consider the S2000 as a "base" model...

[Law]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I woudn't consider the S2000 as a "base" model...

I'm not seeing where he referred to the S2000 as a "base" model.

He makes a good point though...just consider:
In the US Market in 1999, a "plebeian" marque such as Honda (sans Acura), who's most expensive offering at the time was probably the S2000, came equipped with projector-type HID headlamps as standard & had a starting price comparable to that of the cheapest BMW offering at the time, the 3-series, which wasn't so equipped as standard.

Even after several generations & almost two decades, a "premium" brand like BMW, who's bread and butter product continues to be the 3-series, still comes standard with non-HID reflector-type headlamps on the base model.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Law

I'm not seeing where he referred to the S2000 as a "base" model.

He makes a good point though...just consider:
In the US Market in 1999, a "plebeian" marque such as Honda (sans Acura), who's most expensive offering at the time was probably the S2000, came equipped with projector-type HID headlamps as standard & had a starting price comparable to that of the cheapest BMW offering at the time, the 3-series, which wasn't so equipped as standard.

Even after several generations & almost two decades, a "premium" brand like BMW, who's bread and butter product continues to be the 3-series, still comes standard with non-HID reflector-type headlamps on the base model.

My first M3 came standard with HID in 2001 even if the "base" 3-series came with halogens. The S2000 was the Honda hall mark in those days and Accords sure didn't come with HID. It is just a pointless comparison IMO.

[Law]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My first M3 came standard with HID in 2001 even if the "base" 3-series came with halogens. The S2000 was the Honda hall mark in those days and Accords sure didn't come with HID. It is just a pointless comparison IMO.

Your M3 was almost double the cost of an S2000 of the same period.
That's a pointless comparison.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by termigni

Honda offered standard HID on S2000 back in 1999. C'mon BMW we still get halogen headlights on base 3 series.

What a unique and topical thread.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Law

Your M3 was almost double the cost of an S2000 of the same period.
That's a pointless comparison.

My posts were made in response to the OP when it was part of the M4 LCI thread. My point is that I could not care less of what headlights BMW offers on their base model and what Honda offered on thei top model 15+ years ago when discussing the upcoming M4 LCI changes. Hence the mention of "pointless comparison".

Now that the posts were rooted out of the original thread to create their own thread in the F30 forum, my posts will seem quite OT.

[turboawd]

halogens are just horrible.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by termigni

Honda offered standard HID on S2000 back in 1999. C'mon BMW we still get halogen headlights on base 3 series.

Well, no one said you have to check the XENON or LED box. If you want it standard, prepare to have the standard price reflect it with an increase. It's a base model, which the S2000 is not. The S2000 is the M3/4 of Hondas, and the BMW M3/4 comes standard with XENONs. This is to keep the base price down and attract buyers on a lower budget to get an entry level luxury sports sedan. BMW has price it competitively against others in this class: the MB C class and the Audi A4. BTW last I checked (which was awhile ago) the Audi A4 still has non-hid/led standard lights.

I do think, however, that the LED lights should be cheaper than halogens. Isn't that the point of them? Or is the housing more expensive because they attach all this adaptive tech into it? The next 3 series should come LED standard with the adaptive aspects of it as additional cost options.

[Billfitz]

I rode in a rental 2017 Corolla last week. Yes, it has LED, but for the low beams only. They had a great pattern, but were no brighter and only slightly whiter than my halogens.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I rode in a rental 2017 Corolla last week. Yes, it has LED, but for the low beams only. They had a great pattern, but were no brighter and only slightly whiter than my halogens.

LEDs generally produce less lumens because of the cooler nature of the light color.

[5ilver-5amurai]

I made the mistake of not upgrading to HID's on my 2010 TSX...never again. Aside from sheer aesthetics, HID's really do make a big difference when it comes to providing a clear and visible path in low lightning conditions.

I hate how BMW doesn't put them as standard....they're actually becoming quite common on non-luxury cars as someone mentioned above. It's so odd seeing a brand new BMW with halogens and a new Corolla next to it with blinding white headlights.

[Law]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My posts were made in response to the OP when it was part of the M4 LCI thread. My point is that I could not care less of what headlights BMW offers on their base model and what Honda offered on thei top model 15+ years ago when discussing the upcoming M4 LCI changes. Hence the mention of "pointless comparison".

Now that the posts were rooted out of the original thread to create their own thread in the F30 forum, my posts will seem quite OT.

Your response was unfair no matter what thread it is in. A car that costs close to double the MSRP of another has little to merit to argue with.
The [now] OP and my point is perhaps pointless, but fair nonetheless.
A 15+ year old Honda equipped (as standard) with lighting technology that has more or less, since that time, become the norm across a wide range of modern vehicles, yet notably absent on a car branded & marketed as a "premium" & "luxury" vehicle is quite an ironic situation indeed.

My point is to point out irony. Pointless, maybe, but a fair testament to the irony nonetheless.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by 5ilver-5amurai

I made the mistake of not upgrading to HID's on my 2010 TSX...never again. Aside from sheer aesthetics, HID's really do make a big difference when it comes to providing a clear and visible path in low lightning conditions.

I hate how BMW doesn't put them as standard....they're actually becoming quite common on non-luxury cars as someone mentioned above. It's so odd seeing a brand new BMW with halogens and a new Corolla next to it with blinding white headlights.

That sux. In the US, every TSX had HIDs standard.

[anotheran]

Originally Posted by 5ilver-5amurai

I made the mistake of not upgrading to HID's on my 2010 TSX...never again. Aside from sheer aesthetics, HID's really do make a big difference when it comes to providing a clear and visible path in low lightning conditions.

I hate how BMW doesn't put them as standard....they're actually becoming quite common on non-luxury cars as someone mentioned above. It's so odd seeing a brand new BMW with halogens and a new Corolla next to it with blinding white headlights.

It's the aim to hit the lower price bracket and attract buyers to the showroom then pile on the high priced packages. Heck, Apple Carplay is standard on new KIAs but an option on BMWs.

If you want a BMW, you gotta pay or go used

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by jmg

LEDs generally produce less lumens because of the cooler nature of the light color.

An LED will produce as many lumens as it's engineered to produce. In the case of what's in the Corolla I drove it's not enough. That's not to say that LED can't give a better result than halogen, but just because the lamp is LED doesn't guarantee that it will give a better result. Sure, the Corolla has LED low beams as standard. That's nothing to brag on, because they're not very good LED low beams. No doubt Toyota uses them not because they're better, because they're not, but because they draw far less current, allowing a smaller battery and alternator, for higher CAFE.

[odus]

Originally Posted by tex2670

That sux. In the US, every TSX had HIDs standard.

was same in Canada were he's from not sure what car he had?

[5ilver-5amurai]

Originally Posted by tex2670

That sux. In the US, every TSX had HIDs standard.

It was painful seeing a beautiful pearl white TSX with these super low quality halogen lights. By the end of my lease, one of my bulbs went out and it became a one yellow-eyed monster.

[5ilver-5amurai]

Originally Posted by odus

was same in Canada were he's from not sure what car he had?

They actually weren't standard in Canada - I'm based out of the GTA. You had to order the premium package to get HID's, leather, etc. I was a grad student with a small budget at the time, saving 40 dollars a month is a lot of food :P

[joz]

BMW lights are ok. Nothing special. I expected more given how BMW is always touting how they are cutting edge.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by joz

BMW lights are ok. Nothing special. I expected more given how BMW is always touting how they are cutting edge.

The anti-dazzle is something to behold if you are outside of the US or have them coded back in. The IS DOT light laws don't allow for them for some reason. Funny enough, it's listed on your window sticker and says something like "anti-dazzle decode".

[mrkwinning]

BMW does this on purpose to make money. I mean, how else would they continue to charge you for things that should be standard?

I agree that it's pretty ridiculous. At least give us projectors for crying out loud!