[bimmaguy]

i recently sold steering wheel with airbag which sold thought the ebay global shipping programme where u send the item to them in Derby then they ship it on internationally.

buyer paid and so i shipped to the ebay centre but then got a msg saying they cannot ship it due be hazardous (airbag).

so i contacted them on several occasions and was promised a reply direct from from the global shipping team which never happened to give me an update on when i will get my items back so i can make the refund.
so after the fourth call i got a response saying basically they have destroyed the item and i should refund the buyer in full!!

so i asked them to either refund the buyer direct or credit me and i can make the refund as it was not my fault u have destroyed the item!!

this is the to and from responses i got...

EBAY RESPONSE...

Your sale of item BMW M SPORT STEERING WHEEL & AIRBAG 1 3 Series E90 E91 E92 E93 E81 E82 E87 E88, through the Global Shipping Programme couldn't be delivered because the shipment contained items that were found to be restricted from transport. Certain items cannot be transported for legal or health and safety reasons. Failure to comply with these regulations could result in prosecution. The shipper is responsible for checking whether or not an item is prohibited and knowingly Pitney Bowes could not ship forward or return your item.

If an item arrives to our shipping hub and the item is restricted from international carriage, our hub will not proceed with the shipment and will safely dispose of the item. This process is subject to dangerous goods only. In this instance your Steering Wheel was not in compliance with ADR SP289, and not eligible for transport (UN3268)

Airbags are extremely dangerous to ship and can cause serious harm or even result in death if detonated while in transport as they produce an explosive effect.

We recommend that you contact your buyer in order to arrange a refund.

I apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you but wanted to at least let you know why it happened. If there was a way to request that an exception be made, I would gladly do so in this situation, but because a third party is involved, we must abide by their policies and procedures, especially where international trade law is involved. We thank you for all of your eBay business and hope I have been helpful.

Kind Regards,

Naomi

eBay Global S
Shipping Team


MY RESPONSE...

Thank you for the response.

Unfortunately I do not agree with the outcome of this issue.

I believe Ebay has to bear the responsibility of this transaction as it was done through the global shipping programme.

When listing an item on ebay it automatically enrols you on the global shipment and if there is an item that they will not send then just before the item is listed a message appear stating... "You can list this item, but we do not support sending it to the UK Centre".

This msg was NOT illustatrated at the point of listing my item.

I complied with all the ebay rules when listing and once sold was instructed by ebay to send it the shipping centre in Derby which I did and provided tracking.

Then I received an email on 29th October informing me of the issue of shipping a hazardous item and the need to refund the buyer. I then contacted ebay on 4 different occasions (30/10/16 at 12.10pm, 3/11/16 at 10.54am, 04/11/16 at 9.49pm and 08/11/16 at 12.08pm) to discuss this matter and was assured by a member of the global shipping team would contact me to discuss this but it did not happen until i spoke Naomi on 8th November who then replied with the latest email stating my item has been destroyed and i should refund the buyer.

I feel harshly and unfairly treated which has caused me a great financial loss all because i complied with ebay and tried to be a good efficient seller as Ebay always wants their seller to be like.

Therefore I ask Ebay to either refund the buyer themselves or credit me with £359.95 so I can use that to refund the buyer?

I hope you will resolve this matter as a soon as possible and look forward to a reply to avoid further action being taken.

Regards

EBAY FINAL RESPONSE...

Thank you for contacting eBay in relation to -BMW M SPORT STEERING WHEEL & AIRBAG 1 3 Series E90 E91 E92 E93 E81 E82 E87 E88, item #. I'm sorry that you don't agree with the decision that has been made. I have carefully reviewed the situation and we are not going to appeal the decision. I understand the inconvenience this caused. There's not a way around this policy. We are simply complying with the policies of Royal Mail, other carriers and international trade laws. As a third party is involved, we must abide by their policies, especially where international trade law is involved. I understand this may not be a message you are looking for and it's not one that I enjoy giving. Listings may default to use the Global Shipping program, however it is stated that sellers assume all responsibility for the listing which does include this situation. We ask that all sellers review the listing before they post to ensure all information is as the seller wants it. We try to block hazardous items from being sold with the Global Shipping Program, however on occasion due to a number of reasons some listings slip through. Though not all sellers are expected to know international trade and customs policies, we ask that sellers understand and comply with their local carriers policies. Since Royal Mail deems this dangerous to ship our third party will liquidate the item. We ask that you refund your buyer even though we will not compensate you for this situation. I am sorry about this loss for you and if there was a way to change it, we absolutely would.

Many thanks,

Holly

eBay Customer Service


So do i have any chance of making some sort of challenge to this outcome as i need to refund buyer £350 and got nothing to show for it?!

[imy]

That is absolute bullshit. What right did they have to destroy the item? They should have returned it to you.

[Kerr]

That's a tough one.

Airbags are classed as explosives and aren't to be posted unless in cages bigger than the exploded airbag and with the correct documentation.

Couriers do state they have a right to destroy or dispose of dangerous goods. That's standard terms and conditions.

You say that ebay automatically enrolled you in the Global Shipping Program, had you offered the wheel cash on collection basis only before, or had you always intended just to post it?

If you had no intention to post it I could maybe see a slight argument, but it's still your responsibility to make sure what you post is safe.

If you always planned to post it without the correct safety barriers this was always the risk you ran. You'd only get away with it if the courier didn't know what was inside.

[JJ0063]

Unfortunately you posted an explosive which is prohibited not only in the eBay GSP but also by all couriers unless as Kerr has mentioned, it's done in the proper way and even then only a very small minority of couriers will touch them.

The onus is on you to read the T's & C's of the Global Shipping Program, everyone received an email advising they would be automatically enrolled unless they opted out so in the eyes of eBay/the law you had the opportunity to read the T's & C's and opt out if you didn't agree with them.

I'd be massively pissed off if I were you but it's one of those things you could never successfully argue and you certainly won't make the same mistake again!

Sorry to hear it's happened, just forget about it & move on is the best advice unfortunately!

[imy]

hang on was the whole steering wheel destroyed or just the airbag?

[JJ0063]

Originally Posted by imy

hang on was the whole steering wheel destroyed or just the airbag?

They more than likely will have destroyed the whole parcel. They would class it as a complete item not two parts I imagine.

[tadaska]

I would not be surprised if it comes up for sale on eBay again one day. Personally, I would just withdraw the cash and cancel direct debit and cards ebay has on file.

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by tadaska

I would not be surprised if it comes up for sale on eBay again one day. Personally, I would just withdraw the cash and cancel direct debit and cards ebay has on file.

I imagine that would be classed as fraud.

[tadaska]

Originally Posted by IanS100

I imagine that would be classed as fraud.

Class it as you will but that's what I would do and there is not a damn thing eBay can do about it.

[djgandy]

T'is a bit cheeky because they enroll you into it by default. Every single item I list I unclick that button. International buyers are a pain in the ass, but I feel for you as this is eBay making it even worse.

[Kerr]

Originally Posted by tadaska

I would not be surprised if it comes up for sale on eBay again one day. Personally, I would just withdraw the cash and cancel direct debit and cards ebay has on file.

Ebay are well known for aggressive debt collection. I'm not sure I'd be willing to ruin my credit rating over this.

[tadaska]

Originally Posted by Kerr

Ebay are well known for aggressive debt collection. I'm not sure I'd be willing to ruin my credit rating over this.

That's news to me. I guess I'm out of the loop... Haven't sold anything on eBay in ages. Most stuff I sell is £100-300 so I use FB or forum classified pages and Gumtree. If eBay can ruin your credit history then it ain't worth it.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by djgandy

T'is a bit cheeky because they enroll you into it by default. Every single item I list I unclick that button. International buyers are a pain in the ass, but I feel for you as this is eBay making it even worse.

Yeah, on the phone app it's always checked by default - every time i've sold anything by mistake with that checked, the transaction has been a ballache with someone or other trying it on.

[Kerr]

Originally Posted by tadaska

That's news to me. I guess I'm out of the loop... Haven't sold anything on eBay in ages. Most stuff I sell is £100-300 so I use FB or forum classified pages and Gumtree. If eBay can ruin your credit history then it ain't worth it.

There's lots of examples where debt has been handed over to debt recovery agencies and even ending up with people with CCJs against them.


Any update OP?

[tadaska]

Originally Posted by Kerr

There's lots of examples there debt has been handed over to debt recovery agencies and even ending up with people with CCJs against them.


Any update OP?

Debt collection agencies can be ignored but if eBay/Paypal can make an entry in your credit history (which I'm pretty sure they couldn't when they first started years ago) then it's best to avoid that. I can't imagine them taking someone to courts for a few hundred quid but then you never know, they are probably loaded with money and to them making an example might be more important than making a small (for them) loss.

[imy]

If you don't pay then what about the buyer? Do ebay guarantee refunds in these circumstances?

On a side note I sold on ebay for the first time in a while and nearly fell off my chair when I saw the % they take.

[bimmaguy]

Originally Posted by Kerr

There's lots of examples there debt has been handed over to debt recovery agencies and even ending up with people with CCJs against them.


Any update OP?

Just mulling over if it's worth challenging Ebay but looks as though I'll be a few hundred quid of pocket!!

[The0pportunist]

Surely ebay knew the airbag was being sent, surely they could have advised you when you put the item for sale if it cannot be shipped internationally.

I know the terms might state they have the right to destroy your property but what i have learned over the years is these terms mean jack shit. It's like selling a car 'sold as seen' - theres no legal standing to this nor is it their 'right' to destroy your property. I would take this further if i was you....

Anyway, thanks for sharing this and making us aware.

[bimmaguy]

Little UPDATE....

Just got a follow up msg but this time Ebay is claiming the item arrived damaged??? And that I should look to get compensation with courier I originally used to post to them?!!

I smell a cover up...??

What You guys think..?

MSG FROM EBAY:

I'm responding to your recent inquiry to our support team regarding an item which was sold through our Global Shipping Program. This is regarding the BMW M Sport Steering Wheel and Airbag you sold, item . I understand you had some concerns about the automated message received regarding the shipment. My name is Tiffany, I'm a Global Shipping Specialist and I am happy to review the details with you.

Thank you also for the patience you have shown while we responded to your email. We have had a recent influx of emails, and since each one is answered personally it has taken us some time to reply to everyone.

I may repeat information you are privy to, but I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I looked into this and I found that we could not forward your item on to you because of a restriction at our Global Shipping hub. Our shipper has an agreement with the sellers that if the items arrive to our shipping center and cannot be forwarded on, they will not continue the shipment. In this instance, the product arrived to our Global Shipping hub damaged and were marked as hazardous due to the air bag, which could be unsafe during transport. Since this is the case, we recommend looking into insurance coverage with the domestic shipper. We also recommend refunding your customer. I know the situation is not ideal but I am glad I was able to provide the reasons behind the restriction for these kinds of items. For more detail about restrictions to our hub, please refer to the following link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/ship...tml#prohibited

Please let us know if there is anything more we can do for you and we will be happy to help.

Sincerely,

Tiffany G.
eBay Customer Service

[djgandy]

Where are the pictures of the damage?
Make sure you save all your messages.

I'd be looking at legal action against eBay, especially since they have now changed their story.

[RajB]

TBH you don't have a case as I believe all couriers etc state airbags are on their prohibitive lists (or at least all the ones I have seen). So if you are trying to claim for an item you shouldn't have been shipping (even within the UK) then they have the right to use that as their get out clause and could potentially counter argue that you knowingly tried to ship (what is classed as an explosive device) through them.

They haven't totally changed what they have stated either as they have added the 'damaged' bit, which could then be used as the way to try and claim through the couriers insurance (could also be interpreted as trying to help you out).

Personally take it as a learn as you were in the wrong to start with shipping an airbag (even without the global shipping malarkey).

[Kerr]

Ebay are useless as dealing with complaints. I've had a few issues and sadly crossed wires and people not reading the email chain leads to irrelevant and incorrect responses.

The airbag was dangerous in the eyes of the courier even if it was in perfect condition.

As soon as you make a claim for an airbag the courier will throw your claim out anyway.