[DailyN54]

Im curious to know what people are getting for IAT's when idoling the car. It was 90f today and I saw my IAT's hit 172f! I was waiting on my wife to get our order from Starbucks. I have a Wagner Evo 2 Competition stepped FMIC. It works very well while in motion. However, I was wondering if I should be worried when just hanging out in the car.

[AndyW]

Sitting still in hot weather IAT's can definitely get above 150F. I am not an expert but 172F seems possible given no cooling flow since Oil temp is probably 240F and coolant is 210F. It's an equilibrium system so oil temp (going through turbos) would be the upper limit, theoretically, I suppose.

[RSL]

I have a Dinan FMIC (bar and plate) and on the hottest days here (100-110F), I'll get into the 130Fs sitting in traffic and/or long lights on 25 mile commutes. The only time I've ever seen my IATs even in the 140Fs was idling in the garage for 5-10 minutes faced in after coming back from doing multiple pulls on a 104F day.

Reaching 170s seems a bit excessive to me, but may not be abnormal given how little mass that FMIC has. What you really need to do is get input from others running Wagner comps or other tube/fin cores.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Without any air flowing through the intercooler, IAT will be hot at idle.

Radiator, heat exchangers, intercoolers all need air to flow through them to extract hot air out. How long the vehicle was driven before stopping, what kind of driving was done before that and how long you were stopped for will all factor into the amount of heat soak.

Don't worry about idle temps.

As a side note, the EVO 2 is quick to rise and quick to fall in temps, it's why it's preferred in racing applications where back to back pulls allow it to shed heat quickly.

[DailyN54]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Without any air flowing through the intercooler, IAT will be hot at idle.

Radiator, heat exchangers, intercoolers all need air to flow through them to extract hot air out. How long the vehicle was driven before stopping, what kind of driving was done before that and how long you were stopped for will all factor into the amount of heat soak.

Don't worry about idle temps.

As a side note, the EVO 2 is quick to rise and quick to fall in temps, it's why it's preferred in racing applications where back to back pulls allow it to shed heat quickly.

That makes sense. I was driving for about 20 minutes on a expressway before I stopped. I was sitting there for about 10 minutes. I do notice that the Wagner sheds heat very quickly when I am moving. It is usually no more then 20F higher then ambient even when pushing it on the street. I was just worried about the AITs becoming dangerously high while just hanging out in the car.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by DailyN54

That makes sense. I was driving for about 20 minutes on a expressway before I stopped. I was sitting there for about 10 minutes. I do notice that the Wagner sheds heat very quickly when I am moving. It is usually no more then 20F higher then ambient even when pushing it on the street. I was just worried about the AITs becoming dangerously high while just hanging out in the car.

I've had supercharged vehicles (no intercooler/aftercooler) producing Intake air temps in excess of 200F at wide open throttle revving to 8600 RPM....

So this vehicle, at an idle of 750 RPM with barely any load... it's fine

Keep in mind your coolant was probably 230F and your oil near 250F. That's why the surrounding air was so hot and why the intercooler was getting heat soaked.

Now imagine a stock intercooler in the same conditions!

[135Pats]

Ya'll need to experiment with the latest cooling tables, they help a tremendous amount when idling/sitting in traffic. My coolant hasn't gone over 195 since making some modest tweaks.

A bit of a sidetrack, I know.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Ya'll need to experiment with the latest cooling tables, they help a tremendous amount when idling/sitting in traffic. My coolant hasn't gone over 195 since making some modest tweaks.

A bit of a sidetrack, I know.

Been meaning to do this. 195F would be good, did you change the thermostat? I thought the stock T stat was 206F? Mishimoto has a T stat for 165F.

Just don't have the fans kick on too early, they put a good amount of load on the charging system and battery.

My C6Z has a 160 T stat. Fans start at 185 with about 30% power. In the hot summer with the AC its a bit too early as they are always on even on the highway.

I'm about to change them to kick on at 190 instead. That 5 degree difference is that much better.

My alternator couldn't keep up with the amperage necessary to keep the fans going full bore and still charge the battery so I ran into a lot of dead battery issues, even with new batteries. Even though I was getting 14.5 volts while charging the amperage of the fans was draining too much.

Also the stock radiator is pretty inefficient (on that car). Even in 30 degree ambients I couldn't get the IAT lower then 174. Although I think that's because the coolant temp is read at the inlet but yea now I'm on a tangent.

Anyway, moral of the story, go with 190F as starting temp for fans, it's usually a good starting point, too low may be leaving them on while driving on the highway.

If you are in situations where your fans are on all the time even on the highway, it may be time for either radiator upgrade or raise the fan starting temp.

Hope this helps!

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Been meaning to do this. 195F would be good, did you change the thermostat? I thought the stock T stat was 206F? Mishimoto has a T stat for 165F.

Just don't have the fans kick on too early, they put a good amount of load on the charging system and battery.

My C6Z has a 160 T stat. Fans start at 185 with about 30% power. In the hot summer with the AC its a bit too early as they are always on even on the highway.

I'm about to change them to kick on at 190 instead. That 5 degree difference is that much better.

My alternator couldn't keep up with the amperage necessary to keep the fans going full bore and still charge the battery so I ran into a lot of dead battery issues, even with new batteries. Even though I was getting 14.5 volts while charging the amperage of the fans was draining too much.

Also the stock radiator is pretty inefficient (on that car). Even in 30 degree ambients I couldn't get the IAT lower then 174. Although I think that's because the coolant temp is read at the inlet but yea now I'm on a tangent.

Anyway, moral of the story, go with 190F as starting temp for fans, it's usually a good starting point, too low may be leaving them on while driving on the highway.

If you are in situations where your fans are on all the time even on the highway, it may be time for either radiator upgrade or raise the fan starting temp.

Hope this helps!

When I get home I can screenshot the various temperature thresholds which correspond to the various cooling modes. Oil sits around 230, coolant around 190-195. Based on what i've seen so far this pretty much eliminates my need/want for a big oil cooler. Hoping that if I relocate the coolant tank to the cold side that'll help a bit more.

I set the ambient/outdoor temp fan threshold to 88F if I recall correctly. Off the top of my head, can't remember what I set as the coolant temp threshold...It was very close to 190.

And good point RE: over-doing it. At first I had the coolant setpoint for 'high' mode at like 175 or something too low. The car was fine but to your point, it puts unnecessary strain on the charging system.

I need to play with it a bit more for sure. Trying to find a happy middle ground between addtl. cooling and not placing too much extra load on the water pump and electrical components. But so far, so good. And on the margins i'd always rather err on the side of a dead battery relative to oil and coolant temps. If my WP dies 5k miles earlier as a result, i'm OK with that tradeoff.

[DailyN54]

So been sitting here for 15 minutes. Baby is asleep don't want to wake the beast. Oil temp is 230, water temp is 203. IAT'S are 155. Ambient temperature is 93f. I notices within 5 min of driving I am back down to about 20 degrees above ambient.

[MHD Tuning]

Stock airbox (without or with Mr5 mod) don't suffer as much as DCI at idle - low speed. Good for traffic light racers

Jeff@TopGearSolutions I think it's not so much a question of Evo vs Evo2 rather than the variant: competition vs performance. The IAT with comp variants indeed raises and falls quicker.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

When I get home I can screenshot the various temperature thresholds which correspond to the various cooling modes. Oil sits around 230, coolant around 190-195. Based on what i've seen so far this pretty much eliminates my need/want for a big oil cooler. Hoping that if I relocate the coolant tank to the cold side that'll help a bit more.

I set the ambient/outdoor temp fan threshold to 88F if I recall correctly. Off the top of my head, can't remember what I set as the coolant temp threshold...It was very close to 190.

And good point RE: over-doing it. At first I had the coolant setpoint for 'high' mode at like 175 or something too low. The car was fine but to your point, it puts unnecessary strain on the charging system.

I need to play with it a bit more for sure. Trying to find a happy middle ground between addtl. cooling and not placing too much extra load on the water pump and electrical components. But so far, so good. And on the margins i'd always rather err on the side of a dead battery relative to oil and coolant temps. If my WP dies 5k miles earlier as a result, i'm OK with that tradeoff.

Yes, the charging system and just abuse on the fans I might add.

I'm still wondering if Mishimoto is wrong on the Stock T Stat being 206 then if you can achieve 195 regularly?

Originally Posted by MHD Tuning

Stock airbox (without or with Mr5 mod) don't suffer as much as DCI at idle - low speed. Good for traffic light racers

Jeff@TopGearSolutions I think it's not so much a question of Evo vs Evo2 rather than the variant: competition vs performance. The IAT with comp variants indeed raises and falls quicker.

Good point on the DCI.

Yes, the Competition will vary more compared to the performance. The competition responds quicker to changes in air flow. As a result it will heat soak a bit faster at idle and low air flow but it makes up for it once you get going so moot otherwise. The Wagner Performance variant can sustain temps better for say a single or two gear pull in some respects but not necessarily ideal for further back to buck runs where it can't extract the heat further as easy as the Competition variant core. Most of this negligible in street applications.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Yes, the charging system and just abuse on the fans I might add.

I'm still wondering if Mishimoto is wrong on the Stock T Stat being 206 then if you can achieve 195 regularly?

I'll screenshot the tables if I can remember tonight and will post 'em here.

[RSL]

I've been hitting those cooling modes for years out here in the summers. 100% stock IS hardware (radiators, oil cooler) run down into the 160s for coolant and 200F for oil on the hottest days (>100F). I keep ECT around 185F and oil stays around 210F. I bumped the fan PMW a few % in one spot, but other than that, just temp set points.

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by RSL

I've been hitting those cooling modes for years out here in the summers. 100% stock IS hardware (radiators, oil cooler) run down into the 160s for coolant and 200F for oil on the hottest days (>100F). I keep ECT around 185F and oil stays around 210F. I bumped the fan PMW a few % in one spot, but other than that, just temp set points.

Where are you making these adjustments; JB, MHD, INPA?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by jwebb335xi

Where are you making these adjustments; JB, MHD, INPA?

MHD. Download the latest XDFs (they are publicly available) and you'll see the new cooling tables exposed.

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

MHD. Download the latest XDFs (they are publicly available) and you'll see the new cooling tables exposed.

Thanks man.. Still on Cobb; guess I'm "old school." Better than manually riching/leaning a carb and moving a distributor for timing.... Half the folks here have probably only read about that stuff.