[Watsey]

Thought I'd share with the Forum. Possibly of more interest to those planning on keeping their cars long-term; those on PCH or company cars may well think "whatever "

BMW's position is that auto transmissions are sealed for life - IMO anything comprising lubricated mechanicals needs more maintenance than that. From what I've read, ZF recommends a transmission fluid change at 62K miles. With mine having done 50K reasonably hard miles, and as I'll be keeping it for the foreseeable future, I elected to have the fluid changed as part of its service today.

From the video which the technician took as he removed the transmission pan plug, and from the service manager's call, the fluid was well used, but not burnt. So in other words, it still had some life in it but it was ageing.

If I do it again I'll probably leave it 75K miles. Will be interesting to see whether the shift quality improves (can baulk when cold).

[Tengocity]

Interesting to hear Ian, especially as I'm at 75k miles. I think I will get it changed at next oil change in 9k miles.

[FarmerD]

Did BMW change it for you? Remember in previous threads that BMW would t do it. Also recall there were a few changes done in the US where it made the transmission worse. Have you noticed any difference?

Finally, sorry what did it cost?

I'm in the 'keeping it' boat too so very relevant. At 71k miles now

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by FarmerD

Did BMW change it for you? Remember in previous threads that BMW would t do it. Also recall there were a few changes done in the US where it made the transmission worse. Have you noticed any difference?

Finally, sorry what did it cost?

I'm in the 'keeping it' boat too so very relevant. At 71k miles now

Yes, transmission fluid change was carried out by the main dealer that I bought the car from (AUC). My extended warranty (now year 4) was paid for by the dealer as a goodwill gesture for the a mount of warranty work that has been required and I'm keen to keep all the accountability in one place. An indy would probably have been cheaper, but that's not my objective.

I can't pick the car up until Friday due to client commitments but will post an update regarding any changes to the gearbox operation - it tends to baulk when cold.

I've watched a few YouTube vids and in theory, and rather perversely, changing the fluid on an auto 'box with worn clutch packs could result in clutch slip - it seems that fluid with suspended metallic particles could actually help worn clutches as it increases friction. I think this is quite an extreme view (don't change the fluid on an auto transmission with knackered clutch packs) and with <50K miles on mine the fluid change is in the interests of extending the life of the gearbox, rather than relying on BMW's position of 'sealed for life'.

Price ? Several hundred £. The car still has a service pack, and I'm happy to spend some extra £ to keep the car in good condition.

[Drisser]

Mind me asking what the extended warranty cost ? Its quite possible I will be keeping mine 5 years so might need the year 4 and 5 and wondered if it varied depending on mileage done by year 3 ..

[planemad]

How much did the oil change set you back?
Also is it a special transmission oil that they ordered in or do most dealers keep it in the stores?

[SDH]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Thought I'd share with the Forum. Possibly of more interest to those planning on keeping their cars long-term; those on PCH or company cars may well think "whatever "

BMW's position is that auto transmissions are sealed for life - IMO anything comprising lubricated mechanicals needs more maintenance than that. From what I've read, ZF recommends a transmission fluid change at 62K miles. With mine having done 50K reasonably hard miles, and as I'll be keeping it for the foreseeable future, I elected to have the fluid changed as part of its service today.

From the video which the technician took as he removed the transmission pan plug, and from the service manager's call, the fluid was well used, but not burnt. So in other words, it still had some life in it but it was ageing.

If I do it again I'll probably leave it 75K miles. Will be interesting to see whether the shift quality improves (can baulk when cold).

What was the source of the ZF recommendation of 62k oil change?

[NISFAN]

Interested to hear your thoughts when you get to try it out.

Mine still feels smooth, but do get a little more torque convertor action when cold than I used to. I think???

Info from ZF ZF8 service

[Twenty2Three]

Its another of those "How do you know they have done it " jobs... unless you watch them doing it.
Call me cynical but after a recent Haldex issue on a TT I would want to watch them change it myself.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Three28iman

Its another of those "How do you know they have done it " jobs... unless you watch them doing it.
Call me cynical but after a recent Haldex issue on a TT I would want to watch them change it myself.

Assuming the filter cartridge is changed too (stupid not to), then you just make a mark on the plastic sump under the gearbox. If the mark is still there, they didn't change the filter cartridge which is built into the sump. Simples.

[Watsey]

According to the Master Tech at the dealer, the ZF 8 speed 'box doesn't have a filter.

Does anyone have any facts to the contrary ?

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Watsey

According to the Master Tech at the dealer, the ZF 8 speed 'box doesn't have a filter.

Does anyone have any facts to the contrary ?

Yep, click the link in post #8

It's built into the plastic sump that you see on the outside.

This is what you get to service a Land Rover ZF8, I'm sure it is exactly the same as the BMW version, but could be wrong.

[Watsey]

Looks like the Master Tech is right (but I'm also checking with the Service Manager). No transmission fluid filter listed on realoem for the ZF unit in my car :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...BMW-330d&mg=24

Maybe the magnetic plate on the pan is strong enough to take any metallic particulates out of circulation.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Looks like the Master Tech is right (but I'm also checking with the Service Manager). No transmission fluid filter listed on realoem for the ZF unit in my car :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...BMW-330d&mg=24

Maybe the magnetic plate on the pan is strong enough to take any metallic particulates out of circulation.

I would think it is just REALOEM not showing the filter specifically? ZF's own site seems to suggest the filter is built into the plastic pan.

[gtthree]

Hi

The filter in built into the oil pan, I started a similar thread on the F10 5 series forum.

The cheapest purchase price for the pan and ZF Oil bottled oil is Germany.
The Oil is probably manufactured Shell who used to be the only other source the specific oil required.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1228391

[Ross_T_Boss]

I had a friend who looked into a Land Rover ZF8 rebuild with a transmissions specialist who advised to only do it if there were issues - apparently his experience was the ZF8s are never the same afterwards.

Hopefully your guy knows something he doesn't, so would be interested to know how you get on with it.

Mine is mostly fine at 55k now but I don't think as smooth in 1st as it used to be, especially when cold.

[Watsey]

Picked the car up from the dealer this morning as I've been away at a client site all week. The ZF is back to being super smooth, blurring the shifts in Comfort better than it was before the fluid change, plus nice and snappy in Sport/+ (actually no discernible change); zero problems across all of the modes.

The fluid change process is : drain all the fluid and re-fill. Drive the car to ensure the fluid is dispersed through the system. Drain the fluid a second time and re-fill a second time. This flushes as much of the old fluid from the system as is reasonably possible - it's not possible to physically drain the torque converter unless the 'box is stripped-down. That explains the reason for a fluid change being a £500+ elective cost.

I asked the service manager about the gearbox filter (for the third time but this time looking into the whites of his eyes), and he is insistent that the modern ZF 'boxes don't have a filter, just a drain. Apparently although push-connector filters (inside the 'box, just above the pan) were the norm in the older 'boxes, they're no longer required.

Anyway, fluid changed before it aged too much and no apparent signs of mechanical wear. Next change at ~100K I guess.

[FarmerD]

Good to hear. Might think of mine in a while... Let us know if you have any problems but sounds like a good result.

Did you have any issues getting the dealer to do the work? Had they done a zf8 before?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by FarmerD

Good to hear. Might think of mine in a while... Let us know if you have any problems but sounds like a good result.

Did you have any issues getting the dealer to do the work? Had they done a zf8 before?

No problems at all, apart from them advising me of the cost (i.e. "are you sure ?). My dealership now sends Health Check videos when they are working on the car, and I made sure they sent me a vid of the fluid being drained. It was reasonably dark, but not black, so wasn't too far gone. Next time I'd maybe go to 60-70K miles, but not much further.

Apparently 5.5L of fluid was drained from the 'box. Given how easy it is to do, it's a DIY job as long as you've got access to ramps (the car does need to be level in order to get the fill volume correct. If you've watched the BavAuto videos it talks you through a specific process of topping-up, then running the 'box through the gears while the car is up on the ramps, then topping-up to the bottom of the fill plug. Definitely a job that an Indy could do - just insist on them using quality fluid.

[Tengocity]

Hmmm, so you really notice an significant difference? I don't think my gearbox is as smooth as it was so I might have to consider this. Where did you get it done?

[Ross_T_Boss]

It suggests to me that it's worth getting it done at a dealer - fluid is probably a key element, and some attention to detail too. I changed my RS6 fluid on the drive and it wasn't fun, cost about £250 in parts and fluids, and took a lot of clean up. Running 150mph on axle stands isn't fun either. I'd gladly pay £500 for a main stealer to do it.

On 55k miles so will look into this! Thanks for taking the plunge!

[NISFAN]

Thanks for pioneering this Ian. There have been some horror stories floating about, which causes doubt against on what is otherwise a logical requirement. Looks like I too will be doing mine soon.