[PuterPro]

So I just got my PP82DSP and it's installed fine in my 2015 320i. Hope to do some profiling this weekend.

I ran some test with various inputs. I have an iBasso DAC & Headphone amp that I've been using to play from my Samsung Note 4 to the Aux jack.

That lets the iBasso decode my (mostly) FLAC lossless files and gave a noticeable improvement over USB where the car did the decoding. That was before the upgrade. Now it's fabulous!

That said, it's a PITA to deal with. Juggling the phone at stoplights, there's no real good place for it to sit, and the Album art and song info is on the phones screen rather than the dash.

I know I can put my songs on an SSD plugged into the armrest USB. That works fine, but it's processed by the rather lame DAC in the car.

Just for fun, I tried Bluetooth, but it was really bad. Very low levels even with all cranked up on phone and the SQ was pitious at best. Guess I'm spoiled. This is such a slippery slope... for the wallet!

I know the PP82DSP has Burr Brown DAC (at least I seem to remember that...) but couldn't seem to find out WHICH chip it has.
Question #1.

Question 2 is: If I understand this right, the Digital to Analog conversion takes place in the AMP module, so it should have been upgraded, with the PP82DSP, no?

If so, I can just dump the music to SSD and run through the USB port. Problem solved, Art and song info back, iDrive control, etc.

Any of you Tech types, please PLEASE let me know!

Thanks in advance,
PuterPro

[Lancelot]

Hi, the DAC doesn't take place in the amp, it's in the head unit, the pp82dsp takes analog inputs from the car headunit;

Now there is a digital SPDIF optical input, haven't tried to use it, apparently needs the additional remote control accordng to the manual

[constantin_md]

SSD is overkill for USB 2.0 in BMW. USB 2.0 = 30Mbps max speed.
Patriot Rage XT 64gb - $25 on ebay, very nice flash drive, you can run with a car over it and it will still work.
I don't think there is better SQ while listening flac with Ibasso through aux than listening flac through usb because aux is analog(loss of quality) and usb is digital
It is that iBasso that colors the music to your liking with which you are probably used to.

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by constantin_md

SSD is overkill for USB 2.0 in BMW. USB 2.0 = 30Mbps max speed.
Patriot Rage XT 64gb - $25 on ebay, very nice flash drive, you can run with a car over it and it will still work.

Ahhh... Flash drives and SSD's are the same technology, my friend.

That's where SSD's came from, it was an outgrowth of the increased use of flash memory in digital cameras, then cell phones, then the proliferation of tablet and other portable devices that were too harsh an environment and too small an area for hard drives to survive in. There were some early attempts at small hard drives, the original iPod's had 'em, but they didn't take bumping around well and would crash. I had one of the first ones, setup as a Compact Flash size, used it in my Canon DSLR until it died taking out hundreds of irreplaceable pictures. No recovery attempts worked. My Wife has an iPod Gen 5 that went from 80GB HDD, to 120GB HDD, to 160GB HDD then I got tired of crashes and fixing it and put a 256GB SSD in it, She's happy now and refuses to give it up.

Years of intense R&D, and millions of dollars later, the flash memory cell was improved from it's original very delicate, high failure rate, slow speed, and very expensive manufacturing cost to today's fast, safe, downright cheap cells. SSD's are just Flash Drives on steroids, in a form factor that lets them plug into the SATA drive standard port.

Oh yeah - I own a Patriot Rage 64GB, it's in my pocket right this minute. One of the best out there, it's my "daily driver", in my pocket every day for my computer business. Good choice to recommend!

USB bus speed has no bearing on this discussion, BTW - I'm a Tech, I'm aware of USB's transfer rate. What was your point there? (No attack, just curious!!)

Originally Posted by constantin_md

I don't think there is better SQ while listening flac with Ibasso through aux than listening flac through usb because aux is analog(loss of quality) and usb is digital
It is that iBasso that colors the music to your liking with which you are probably used to.

Well... as an Electronics Audio Repair Tech since I was 17 (now 64...), and a Computer Tech for 37 yrs or so, I'd argue a bit with ya. I have spent my whole life evaluating and repairing sound systems, speakers, etc. Not a huge 'spert on car audio, but certainly no novice to audio.

Trust me, the iBasso through the Aux jack is much clearer and better sound stage than the built in DAC. It even gives a bit better SQ in my Home Theater than the DAC in my >$2000 top of the line Yamaha receiver. I was shocked, didn't expect that one at all, so it's sure not some "placebo" effect.

I put Dark Side of the Moon on, my Wife who was working in the kitchen, not paying attention, spun around and said "WHAT did you just DO?!? I've NEVER heard it sound so clear and accurate!" LOL! Head blown. She normally won't listen to music for more than an hour or so, and kept getting up and changing the albums, listened all day and into the evening when we normally watch TV.

As far as analog not being as good as the USB digital, ahhh... I wouldn't say that too loudly in some places. You'll be beaten to death while staked naked in the Village Square!

Later!
PuterPro

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Hi, the DAC doesn't take place in the amp, it's in the head unit, the pp82dsp takes analog inputs from the car headunit;

Now there is a digital SPDIF optical input, haven't tried to use it, apparently needs the additional remote control accordng to the manual

Hi Lancelot!

You certain of that? My understanding {AHEM!} was that the OEM amp module had the DSP as well as the amplification. I'm hoping so ...!

I don't have a Service Manual or schematic to confirm, was hoping someone who does could verify for me.

Optical ... yeah, I was eyeing that, pondering how hard it was going to be to get an optical cable up to the armrest ... LOL! I may just have to go that route if the DAC is indeed in the head unit, not the amp.

Guess I could try it out first, while I still have the trunk torn apart. The iBasso DAC / Amp has an optical SPDIF out, I use it hooking to my Yamaha HT receiver. Of course, that solution STILL leaves me with the artwork, "now playing", and song control on the phone, not the iDrive.



Why does everything have to be so hard {he grumbles ...}

Ignore me, I'm just bitchin'. On my first cuppa, brain not fully engaged.

Thanks.
PutePro

[PuterPro]

Others, STILL feel free to weigh in....

@Lancelot - Looking at the training PDF covering "Entertainment & Communication" in the TSB & Service Bulletin Forum http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=858623, it seems you're right.

They show the USB going to the head unit. That said, it doesn't mean the head unit actually does the DAC function, it could be sending to the Amp module for processing... LOL!

Really need a Guru here, hope one jumps in... HINT!

PuterPro

[constantin_md]

I meant that you won't get the full 300mb/s or 600mb/s advantage from an SSD on a USB 2.0 in bmw which caps the speed at 30mb/s and an SSD is usually twice the cost per Gb than a flash drive.
If money is not a concern than of course SSD is a better option since it can hold more Gb than a flash drive and get faster transfer to/from a PC.
About the aux port, i still believe it's a worse means of audio transmission than usb because of interference. SPDIF, Optical or USB are the same in this regard since it transmits audio in 1's and 0's.
About the Ibasso, i'll leave it at that because i didn't really have my hands on one of those.
From my previous experience, with my limited budget and good results wanted, the priority goes to:
Speakers > Amp > Source. Because of my limited budget i'd probably never get my hands a high end Source.

[constantin_md]

I know that the radio does the bmw configured EQ in our cars so it probably does the dac in the radio too. (people that upgrade just the amp without DSP in F30 get EQ'ed sound output )
The connection between the radio and amp is analog also so it's probably dac'ed and EQ'ed before it gets to amp.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by PuterPro

Hi Lancelot!

You certain of that? My understanding {AHEM!} was that the OEM amp module had the DSP as well as the amplification. I'm hoping so ...!

Yes... mounted the Bimmertech amp and wiring all by myself from the head unit to the trunk so I get a pretty good idea of the wiring; no digital output from the head unit.

This is how the harness is wired at the back of the head unit (on the right hand side)


Also check this thread there's a wiring diagram of the entire head unit not just the radio output, nothing of use for you there
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=939410

[evssss1]

In the case of cars with Hi-Fi Option (S676), the Head Unit sends balanced line signal (ANALOG) to the stock amp (or PP82DSP Amp if you retrofit that).

OP is also right that there is Burrbrown chips in PP82DSP as it has to convert signal between Analog and Digital for processing.

If you really want to get rid of the DAC in the HU, you can make use of the optical S/PDIF input of the PP82DSP.

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by constantin_md

I meant that you won't get the full 300mb/s or 600mb/s advantage from an SSD on a USB 2.0 in bmw which caps the speed at 30mb/s and an SSD is usually twice the cost per Gb than a flash drive.

Yeah, USB 2 doesn't transfer very fast for data transfers, but the data speed needed for transferring digital music falls well within the USB 2 threshold, or we wouldn't be able to DO music over it!
We're not running it as a boot device or running an operating system here, music data is pretty low overhead stuff, heck the Audio Pro's do simultaneous multi-channel audio, as well as timing data and other data, all without maxing out USB 2's throughput. Doing it from an iPod, iPhone, Android phone, Flash Drive, Hard Drive, or SSD doesn't matter on speed. Speed is NOT an issue, all will work.

The purpose of using an SSD or Hard drive is storage space. Speed doesn't come into it at all.

Most peoples iPhones are not that large on storage space, some Androids can't be upgrade, although most can (my Note 4 has a 200GB External MicroSD).

That said, my iDrive won't read my phone's music through the USB port, a compatibility issue between my phone and the iDrive software (even after flashing the latest BMW software). I haven't tested, but I think it's hanging on reading the External SD, I seem to recall it worked OK before that upgrade.

So, if you have a large music library, you need a large storage device. Brings us full circle to Hard Drive vs SSD. Hard drive's a bit cheaper (unless your library is GYNORMOUS, LOL!), but SSD is more rugged, a perfect match for the car environment. Someone mentioned heat as an issue, but that's absurd. You'd pass out long before your drive broke a sweat, and no, it isn't an issue parked in the hot sun without tinting, not even CLOSE to it's heat rating, not by over 100°F.

Originally Posted by constantin_md

If money is not a concern than of course SSD is a better option since it can hold more Gb than a flash drive and get faster transfer to/from a PC.

Yep, EXACTLY. I got a drive box for $9 US, and a 256GB SSD for about $75.
But keep in mind, transfer rate only comes into play when you're transferring the music from the PC, (as you said), but not during playback, and that's not something you do daily. {Whew, THAT was a long sentence! )

Originally Posted by constantin_md

About the aux port, i still believe it's a worse means of audio transmission than usb because of interference. SPDIF, Optical or USB are the same in this regard since it transmits audio in 1's and 0's.

Not a hard core Vinyl / Tube Amp guy, eh?
OK, I think you're overstating any interference that occurs in the analog system, it's well shielded. But, we agree to disagree here. K?

Originally Posted by constantin_md

About the Ibasso, i'll leave it at that because i didn't really have my hands on one of those.

Same reply, it's a pretty cool device for the money. I did a lot, no a LOT of research before I bought it. Head-Fi.org has a lot about it. If you've got some nice headphones or IEM's, or a rocking desktop set of speakers, you might check it out. Warning, this route is almost as expensive as playing with your car! You've been warned!

Originally Posted by constantin_md

From my previous experience, with my limited budget and good results wanted, the priority goes to:
Speakers > Amp > Source. Because of my limited budget i'd probably never get my hands a high end Source.

BINGO! ME TOO! In fact, that's where this discussion started! Beer Time!

Normally, that would be the order. I jumped on the Amp first after reading numerous posts from some obviously knowledgeable people stating that even with the OEM speakers the increased power, clarity, and Damping Factor, as well as higher quality parts and a better, controllable DSP made the car sound much better.

Speakers would require much more work than 1 plug and one 10mm nut! (Well, after you pull the side panel off in the trunk ... but who's counting. LOL!)

I intended to do speakers next, but my Wife is voting for Rear View Camera.
Since unlimited funds aren't in the mix ... and she does get a vote ... went for the amp.

Very happy so far but do hope to do speakers before too long.

Later!
PuterPro

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Yes... mounted the Bimmertech amp and wiring all by myself from the head unit to the trunk so I get a pretty good idea of the wiring; no digital output from the head unit. ... {EDITED FOR SIZE}

Hi Lancelot!
Thanks for the info!! That is very helpful. I might need the pinouts at some point for other things as well, very appreciated.

Ah, I was hoping... Well, now visions of fiber optics are dancing in my head. "Is that you Santa?"

Guess a new head unit... {BANG} {OK Dear! I was just joking! PLEASE put down the gun! I was JOKING!}

Hmmm. I'll have to ponder all this. Love a good tech puzzle, I have a thought or two.

Thanks again for the data.

PuterPro

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by evssss1

In the case of cars with Hi-Fi Option (S676), the Head Unit sends balanced line signal (ANALOG) to the stock amp (or PP82DSP Amp if you retrofit that).

OP is also right that there is Burrbrown chips in PP82DSP as it has to convert signal between Analog and Digital for processing.

If you really want to get rid of the DAC in the HU, you can make use of the optical S/PDIF input of the PP82DSP.

Yep, tallies with out Friend's Lancelot's data, thanks for weighing in, I may go down the optical route, but that has a few challenges as well.

Any idea which Burr Brown it has? (Perhaps I'm ask BimmerTech) Just curious.

All this is simply trying to get to where I have the whole system mapped in my head (with no schematic...!) so I know which way I want to jump to get the best sound for the least money spent. Sometime simple solutions produce incredible results, eh?

Thanks again,
PuterPro

[constantin_md]

I'm very happy with the bimmertech amp/dsp too. Worth every penny. Easy to to connect/disconnect(when selling the car) and flattens out the Radio's EQ. power is good enough.
The stock speakers suck though, too boomy, tweeters are pretty harsh also.
I had my eyes on a rear view camera too, but i have just spent about $1300 on audio upgrades and have to give it some time.
So far:
Bimmertech amp/dsp
2x SWS-8XI underseat subs
Morel Hybrid 402 for front doors (arriving in a week)

Good luck!

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by constantin_md

I'm very happy with the bimmertech amp/dsp too. Worth every penny. Easy to to connect/disconnect(when selling the car) and flattens out the Radio's EQ. power is good enough.
The stock speakers suck though, too boomy, tweeters are pretty harsh also.
I had my eyes on a rear view camera too, but i have just spent about $1300 on audio upgrades and have to give it some time.
So far:
Bimmertech amp/dsp
2x SWS-8XI underseat subs
Morel Hybrid 402 for front doors (arriving in a week)

Good luck!

Thanks, my Friend. Yeah, time and money ...

I expect the SWS-8XI's will be my next audio step. I agree the other speakers need to go, just gotta do it as I can.

Camera appears to be a bit pricey too, unless you go knockoff. I need to do some more research on that.

Later!
PuterPro

[beanbaguk]

Here's an interesting option avoiding the SPDIF method.

I know Audiotech Fischer offer an AptX Bluetooth module for their version of the PP82DSP.

Can you retrofit this to the Bimmertech revision of the amp? It's basically just a PnP module so I'm fairly sure if the sockets still exist on the Bimmertech amp, it should slot right in.

AptX is about as good as you are going to get in terms of quality and this way, you will by-pass the HU altogether and therefore the built-in BMW DAC.

Just an idea!

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Here's an interesting option avoiding the SPDIF method.

I know Audiotech Fischer offer an AptX Bluetooth module for their version of the PP82DSP.

Can you retrofit this to the Bimmertech revision of the amp? It's basically just a PnP module so I'm fairly sure if the sockets still exist on the Bimmertech amp, it should slot right in.

AptX is about as good as you are going to get in terms of quality and this way, you will by-pass the HU altogether and therefore the built-in BMW DAC.

Just an idea!

I checked their website and only see this extension for the PP62DSP, not the PP82DSP? Did i miss something? I would love that for the bimmertech.

[Lancelot]

Starting to look at bose bluetooth audio afapter or auris BluMe... Bluetooth input, toslink output.

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Here's an interesting option avoiding the SPDIF method.

I know Audiotech Fischer offer an AptX Bluetooth module for their version of the PP82DSP. ... EDITED FOR SPACE

Yeah, just looked at this in another thread, I was drooling instantly!

Hope Nelson weighs in on if this will work on the PP82DSP, but I'm doubting it.

Thanks, hadn't pondered AptX yet. Interesting thought.

PuterPro

[PuterPro]

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Starting to look at bose bluetooth audio afapter or auris BluMe... Bluetooth input, toslink output.

This is a really interesting chain of thought!! Need to do some research on this, thanks for the recommendations.

Although I have to admit a real prejudice against Bose. Always told people who asked me for purchase advice that it stands for:
Better Off Something Else!

High end BT to the trunk would sure be a nice setup for me.

BTW - When I first read BluMe I double took it for something else! LMAO!!

Gotta wonder what the meeting was like when someone suggested that name, musta been hilarious! Either that or they're Chinese and it's a typical "well they blew that translation"! {Literally, don't miss the pun...!}

There's a Chinese (Taiwanese) company that makes drive recovery and backup software called "EaseUS" (say it out loud a couple times).

"Ahh! We make Americans like our company with friendly name, show how easy software is!"

Actually, they make very good software, been using it for years, but always chuckle at the name.

PuterPro

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by PuterPro

BTW - When I first read BluMe I double took it for something else! LMAO!!

Haha same here

I rounded a couple of options that have
- TOSLINK and
- AptX bluetooth
- USB power input (so I can use the cigarette lighter to plug a power adapter with USB)

There are also some cheap options that still get good ratings, e.g.:
HomeSpot : $35 looks good value for money
http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-Wirel.../dp/B00QV77YIC

Kinivo BTR200 $25
http://www.amazon.com/Kinivo-BTR200-.../dp/B013KZICME

[Lancelot]

Food for other thoughts:
Also looking at AirEnabler for AirPlay instead of Bluetooth + a 3rd party Behringer UCA202 DAC to convert USB out to TosLink
http://airenabler.qnology.com/compat...o-adapters-dac