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03-13-2008, 02:45 PM | #1 | |
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Nissan GT-R might not be as under-rated as we all had suspected:
Nissan GT-R and Porsche 911 Turbo dyno results:
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Last edited by gbb357; 03-13-2008 at 03:38 PM.. |
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03-13-2008, 08:30 PM | #4 |
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There is no evidence here really of anything except certain dyno numbers on one car. The contention here always has been that the performance numbers are a bit too good for the stated power output. Please post back when someone can take THIS PARTICULAR CAR and post similar performance figures as the ones we have seen notably for 0-60, 1/4 mi trap and N'Ring time.
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03-13-2008, 09:15 PM | #5 | |
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03-13-2008, 09:52 PM | #6 | |
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03-14-2008, 12:00 AM | #8 | |
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Swamp, you of all people should take heart from the performance of this car. With a fairly significant power to weight disadvantage, it runs pretty much even with a Tiptronic Turbo in a drag race, and the Tip is quite a bit quicker than the stick Porsche because of static boost. You've been raving about how good these new gearboxes are (with no argument from me), and when proof shows up you call it a power advantage. Sheesh. Bruce Edit: PS - "Drag race" - meaning from a dead stop. From a roll, every single data point we have is that the Porsche walks on the Nissan, just as it should. |
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03-14-2008, 03:01 AM | #10 |
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Bruce (and others), you are still missing my points. What a surprise...
gbb: I read the article. I am not dismissing anything, I am simply saying that dynos alone do not make for PROOF. I also don't buy their conclusion that they know either of the cars drivetrain losses accurately enough to calculate crank figures from wheel figures. Did they use the exact same drivetrain losses? More for the GT-R, less? This is very important to BACK calculate the crank figures. If you are off even 1% here and 1% somewhere else that is 10 hp. Lastly on this point, from it's extra driveshafts, the GT-R should have a bit higher drivetrain losses than the Porsche all else being equal. A dyno result is interesting and generally valid when run with great care back to back with another vehicle. This does count as evidence toward the GT-R not being under-rated but you simply can not deny that a A-B dyno comparison is NOT evidence by itself for an under or over rating. What if this car pulled a 4.1 0-60 and 12.2 quarter mile (just for example)? That is the CRUCIAL question here. As I stated, and will state again, I'd LOVE to see real performance numbers for that exact car (both cars actually!). I wonder why these CRUCIAL pieces of information are missing. It sure is not some grand conspiricy but it is odd, they had the cars, why not make some acceleration runs? Also what is up with the peak torque figures coming up almost the same? That does not really jive. Hmmm what's next? Last I checked (straight from the article...) 997TT specs vs. GT-R the TT has a 23 ft-lb advantage and carries about 200 lb less weight. Sure the DCT may be good for about that effective amount 20 ft lb or so (IF NISSAN is totally off about their .2 second shift time, which I think they are, it simply has to be better). I know I should not need to, and no matter how many times I say it, it seems to fall on deaf ears. The GT-R is a fantastic car, it is full of great technology and innovation and I really like the car. The existing tests have all shown a pretty blistering fast car. I am simply a skeptic and still believe there is much evidence for an under-rating. Any of you who have read all or most of my posts know that when I am wrong I freely admit it with very little drama. If I turn out to be wrong here it won't be too big of a deal as I will never change my view that there is and was evidence for an under-rating. Cheers. |
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03-14-2008, 07:13 AM | #11 | |
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03-14-2008, 07:22 AM | #12 | |
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03-14-2008, 07:41 AM | #13 |
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After further thought, I do not see why it may be hard for one to believe that the GT-R is not underrated. As we discussed during almost any in-gear acceleration test the 911 will clearly walk the GT-R. The benefit on the track is, in a great part, simply due to Nissan tailoring this car to be more track focused. Porsche softened their turbo to market more of the Mercedes (Grandpa crowd).
Any benefits from a drag/dig race are also simply due to launch control and quicker shifts. I mean, let's face it, the GT-R is not spanking the 911 in any drag runs, it just edges it out. If it did not have DSG it would simply lose. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't SA conduct their own test of the GT-R where it ran a 7:50 compared to a similar run by the 911? Nissan, like every manufacturer, has created their marketing hype using controlled circumstances to achieve their intended goals. In the real world (street) the GT-R is not going to stand up to the 911tt (even, in softer form) as well, imo. |
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03-14-2008, 09:26 AM | #14 | |
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Every review I have seen has shown that the GT-R is easily faster than the 911 turbo. Also, how can you criticism the GTR, saying that without its gearbox it would be slower? The gearbox took a ton of R&D to develop and is an integral part of any car. I only credit Nissan for putting in some an awesome transmission for a likewise awesome car. To me, the Nissan edges out the Porsche (remember, I have a 997 S so I'm not trying to be biased) because Nissan just looks at the details a bit closer, under a bigger microscope. They refined and toiled over everything until they were absolutely sure the GT-R would basically beat the 911TT under any conditions in any place.
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03-14-2008, 09:37 AM | #15 |
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Beer anyone?
Best regards, south
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03-14-2008, 09:40 AM | #16 | |
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03-14-2008, 10:16 AM | #17 |
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Swamp
Just a little bit off topic. On the M3 vs Vette thread, you posted that the reason why the M3 is as quick if not quicker than the Vette to 60mph or even the 1/4mile even though it's about 500lbs heavier, 20hp less, and at least 100lbs-ft of torque less than the Vette, is because it can put the power better on the ground than the Vette. My point is, this logic can and should apply to the GTR as well. This could explain why it matches the 997TT on acceleration times if not better as well as the other performance figures including The Ring time.
P.S. And remember that the 0-60 times that are being compared for the M3 vs Vette are done with regular 6spd manual tranny not with the M3's DCT with launch control, so the argument of the M3 having a better launch does not apply. It's all a matter of driver skills. |
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03-14-2008, 10:20 AM | #18 | |
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And, your last statement is absolutely false. The GT-R will not beat the 997tt in every discipline. The most important every day performance benchmark on the street is roll on/in gear acceleration. The GT-R will simply get spanked there everytime by the 911. 3495 lbs. and more torque Porsche vs. 3873 +/- lbs. GT-R. |
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03-14-2008, 10:23 AM | #19 |
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03-14-2008, 11:02 AM | #20 | |
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03-14-2008, 11:07 AM | #21 |
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Here's the original post from Edmunds Insideline with video.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...opanel..1.*#34 |
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