[des16]

My car, which has been meticulously cared for and was running great, failed the emissions test and BMW dealer said that I needed to replace the Vanos Selenoids and change the oil. He charged me $800.

The dealer drove the car to my house and picked up his loaner, a nice service. A couple of hours later, I went to drive it and it was really sluggish. I could hardly get up a hill, could not get the car over 30 mph, and I could not get the RPMs in any gear above 3K, and it took about 30 second minute to go from 2K to 3K RPMs.

I called the dealer and he said that the car drove fine when he drove it to my house. But, he said he would take a look at it. He called back and said that there was a bad censor that was causing the problem, and it was related to oil leaking from a gasket in the engine and he would clean it off and we should be fine.

The next day he called back and said that while the car was better, it was still sluggish, although, after driving for a while it picked up and seemed more normal. He indicated that the fix was a replacement of the engine gasket and censor, an $1800 job. I was incredulous.

First, they took my car in for a failed emissions test, although it seemed to be driving perfectly, and when i got it back, it was not drivable.

Second, he said it was just an unfortunate coincidence. That it was nearly a 10 year old car and it just happened to fail while he had procession of it. He also indicated that in fact the oil gasket problem had been noted in an earlier servicing of the car 4 years ago and over time there was an accumulation of oil on the censor. (Note, after he told me about the gasket I did have it repaired 4 years ago, but not by him, but instead a private mechanic that I often use and trust. )

Third, he said it had nothing to do with his replacement of the solenoids or what was done during the oil service. I know lightening strikes and coincidences happen. But, I find it hard to believe that the work done on the car was completely unrelated to the problem that occurred immediately after the service. And furthermore, to put it mildly I am skeptical that replacing a gasket and censor, for $1800, is the answer.

I feel helpless, however. And advice is greatly appreciated.

[fun2drive]

VANOS solenoids can get sluggish at any time given your mileage. The typical repair is to remove the VANOS and clean them or replace them.
These solenoids get gummy up especially if you follow the extend oil change intervals. The actually hydraulic part is what I am talking about. The other part of the VANOS is the electrical soldenoid which can fail.
This is not a difficult repair but if you are not handy don't attempt this.
Can this happen this way? Sure can but most likely just one solenoid sticking not two. It can happen the solenoids themselves fail since they are electrical and they simple work by being on or off as simple solenoids works. I would really check and make sure no electrical connector is compromised.
BMW has used single and now dual VANOS since 1990 so this is not something unknown and does happen...

[des16]

Thank you for your reply. But I want to be clear that there was absolutely no problem with how the car was driving prior to the replacement of the selenoids (other than some codes that showed up during the emissions inspection required by the state). Based on those codes, BMW changed the oil and replaced (not cleaned) the selenoids, which was the original $800 repair. As soon as that was done, the car basically did not accelerate. And they indicated the problem had absolutely nothing to do with the selenoids or any work they performed. Rather, it was just a coincidence that the day they changed the selenoids something else went wrong that resulted in the car no longer being drivable.

[ny325]

Had a similar issue. My solenoid, and a coil was replaced. I have a great Indy shop that only works on BMWs do the repair. My car runs like day one.

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by des16

Second, he said it was just an unfortunate coincidence. That it was nearly a 10 year old car and it just happened to fail while he had procession of it. He also indicated that in fact the oil gasket problem had been noted in an earlier servicing of the car 4 years ago and over time there was an accumulation of oil on the censor. (Note, after he told me about the gasket I did have it repaired 4 years ago, but not by him, but instead a private mechanic that I often use and trust. )

I think dealer is talking about the eccentric shaft sensor and the gasket for it, which requires valve cover being removed and reinstalled, so valve cover gasket also will be replaced.

If you can remove the vanity engine cover yourself and take a look and see oil puddled up on that sensor electrical connection that would be the problem, as the pictures here show:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-25...0-e60-e85.aspx

Looks like they first cleaned the oil from outside, but didn't help.

Not sure this can really be coincidence or not, just trying to give you some more information.

[des16]

Thank you all for your help. I am attaching the service records which show the actual codes and diagnostics.

There are two read-outs, from Feb 15 and Feb 18.

After the diagnostics on Feb 15, they changed the Vanos Solenoids. Then the problem began or not acceleration, so, the car went back to the shop and they did the diagnostics again, as shown in Feb 18. This is when they said they need to change the eccentric censor.

Please note that there was no acceleration problem before bringing the car to the shop the first time, and second, it looks like several the codes from the first diagnostic were there the second time.

I look forward to hearing from you all

[alexg212]

Originally Posted by des16

My car, which has been meticulously cared for and was running great, failed the emissions test and BMW dealer said that I needed to replace the Vanos Selenoids and change the oil. He charged me $800.

The dealer drove the car to my house and picked up his loaner, a nice service. A couple of hours later, I went to drive it and it was really sluggish. I could hardly get up a hill, could not get the car over 30 mph, and I could not get the RPMs in any gear above 3K, and it took about 30 second minute to go from 2K to 3K RPMs.

I called the dealer and he said that the car drove fine when he drove it to my house. But, he said he would take a look at it. He called back and said that there was a bad censor that was causing the problem, and it was related to oil leaking from a gasket in the engine and he would clean it off and we should be fine.

The next day he called back and said that while the car was better, it was still sluggish, although, after driving for a while it picked up and seemed more normal. He indicated that the fix was a replacement of the engine gasket and censor, an $1800 job. I was incredulous.

First, they took my car in for a failed emissions test, although it seemed to be driving perfectly, and when i got it back, it was not drivable.

Second, he said it was just an unfortunate coincidence. That it was nearly a 10 year old car and it just happened to fail while he had procession of it. He also indicated that in fact the oil gasket problem had been noted in an earlier servicing of the car 4 years ago and over time there was an accumulation of oil on the censor. (Note, after he told me about the gasket I did have it repaired 4 years ago, but not by him, but instead a private mechanic that I often use and trust. )

Third, he said it had nothing to do with his replacement of the solenoids or what was done during the oil service. I know lightening strikes and coincidences happen. But, I find it hard to believe that the work done on the car was completely unrelated to the problem that occurred immediately after the service. And furthermore, to put it mildly I am skeptical that replacing a gasket and censor, for $1800, is the answer.

I feel helpless, however. And advice is greatly appreciated.

$800 for vanos solenoid and oil change..you got raped. Bad. Literally less than an hour of DIY time, and maybe $100-$150 for all parts/oil.

[SHEEDI]

Originally Posted by alexg212

$800 for vanos solenoid and oil change..you got raped. Bad. Literally less than an hour of DIY time, and maybe $100-$150 for all parts/oil.

+1

[Lshaw]

First off, DO NOT let any shop start any repairs without your consent.

Vanos Solenoid- $100-200, depending on brand. Labor for this is easily 30-60 min.
Oil Change-BMW offers full oil change for $79.95....


Point made, I would never go back to whatever dealer you used. You got taken advantage of.

[des16]

All this is very enlightening and very troubling. I just don't know what to do at this point. They have the car, I live in a remote corner of upstate NY. And there are no independent shops I know of. I did call BMW USA who were completely unhelpful, at least so far. The response was that dealers are independent franchises over which they have no responsibility or control. That was really a pretty pathetic response. I asked to speak to a supervisor, but we'll see. Given that I have two other BMWs, and have owned many BMWs over the years, I would have hoped the BMW USA would be a little more forthcoming. I guess I could take the dealer to small claims court, but I'm not sure how that solves the problem is that I have a car that can't be driven.

[El Cheapo Loco]

You have a stealer that has a monopoly in your neck of the woods and they know it. You need to find an honest indy ASAP and have your car towed there, even if it costs you a couple hundred bucks. It will save you a lot more down the road.

I always have my car towed to my indy because the closest dealer wants $120 per ignition coil, part only!

[tlow98]

If you have someone you know and trust, why use anyone else?

Sorry to hear about this, op. Tow it to the person you trust and wash the $200 tow ~$400 dollar over payment on the first repair. Lesson learned.

[des16]

The problem is that I do not know of any independent shop. There is a great Volvo mechanic, but he doesn't work on BMWs.

[Abax335]

Originally Posted by alexg212

$800 for vanos solenoid and oil change..you got raped. Bad. Literally less than an hour of DIY time, and maybe $100-$150 for all parts/oil.

An oil change is 150$ at most dealers across the country, most dealers also charge labor to diagnose the car (we understand you can read codes but we also understand most people out there are idiots so our diagnostics is required) so you are at 300$ for dia and oil. Two vanos solenoids are about another 150-200ea depending on mark up, you also shoukd of had the filter cup replaced since there is a service bulletin for this. So you are at 700ish before taxes. So around 800 with tax is probably normal.

Granted this is an easy job a dealer or a reputable shop charges time and a half of warranty time.

That being said it sounds more like they misdiagnosed the code to me. The eccentric shaft can throw alot of different faults, one being what I think they saw was for the intake cam timing. The eccentric shaft sensor is a 500$ sensor and generally looking at 5hrs labor.

Without having the faults it's to difficult to say who's at fault. The dealer should be helping, I know if I messed up at the dealer I'd be responsible for rediagnosing the car and doing the labor for free while the dealer eats the parts. I'd keep calling BMW they will come down on the dealer or try going higher up at the dealer itself

Where in NY are you ?

[Lshaw]

Originally Posted by des16

All this is very enlightening and very troubling. I just don't know what to do at this point. They have the car, I live in a remote corner of upstate NY. And there are no independent shops I know of. I did call BMW USA who were completely unhelpful, at least so far. The response was that dealers are independent franchises over which they have no responsibility or control. That was really a pretty pathetic response. I asked to speak to a supervisor, but we'll see. Given that I have two other BMWs, and have owned many BMWs over the years, I would have hoped the BMW USA would be a little more forthcoming. I guess I could take the dealer to small claims court, but I'm not sure how that solves the problem is that I have a car that can't be driven.

Sorry OP but at this point, I would just take this as a learning lesson. We all go through them.

Call the dealership and tell them to not repair anything unless you authorize it. Once they give you a diagnosis, then decide.

Unfortunately, BMW NA is correct, each dealership is independent and doesn't care about your feelings. Bottom line is $$ to some. The supervisor will consult you with some BS, best you can do is show that you are unhappy and will not give them business anymore.

This board is a great resource for situations like this. Find out what is the issue on here, find a good independent mechanic/dealer and move on.

[des16]

Originally Posted by Abax335

An oil change is 150$ at most dealers across the country, most dealers also charge labor to diagnose the car (we understand you can read codes but we also understand most people out there are idiots so our diagnostics is required) so you are at 300$ for dia and oil. Two vanos solenoids are about another 150-200ea depending on mark up, you also shoukd of had the filter cup replaced since there is a service bulletin for this. So you are at 700ish before taxes. So around 800 with tax is probably normal.

Granted this is an easy job a dealer or a reputable shop charges time and a half of warranty time.

That being said it sounds more like they misdiagnosed the code to me. The eccentric shaft can throw alot of different faults, one being what I think they saw was for the intake cam timing. The eccentric shaft sensor is a 500$ sensor and generally looking at 5hrs labor.

Without having the faults it's to difficult to say who's at fault. The dealer should be helping, I know if I messed up at the dealer I'd be responsible for rediagnosing the car and doing the labor for free while the dealer eats the parts. I'd keep calling BMW they will come down on the dealer or try going higher up at the dealer itself

Where in NY are you ?

I am in Ithaca NY. The dealer is in Vestal, around 1 hour drive. the next closest dealer is Syracuse, around 1.5 hours. Please to I posted the faults in one of my earlier posts above.

[des16]

I just don't understand how the dealer can look at the codes and claim that he fixed the original problem with replacing the solonoids, and a new unrelated problem arose after that was done, and this time it is the eccentric sensor that needs to be replaced

Codes before replacement of solonoids: C998, E18C, E18D, A379, 2A98, 2A99, 2A82



Codes after the solonoids: C998, E18C, E18D, A379, 2A3F, 2A38

Note 4 of the codes in the first diagnostic are still there after the replacement of the solonoids. And 2 new codes.

Is there a place get information on what these codes, or combinations of, mean?

[kkasson]

Those four codes are not engine-related. One of them is for the Bluetooth module, etc.

The codes from the 15th are related to the VANOS solenoids and crankshaft/camshaft correlation. The codes from the 18th are eccentric shaft sensor reference and Valvetronic power supply.


I haven't found a complete list of codes in a single place, but if you Google "BMW 2a99" or whatever you can usually find most of them.