[mburg]

I was in Italy last week and saw a 2 series M-Sport with front fog lights - which is different from US configuration where M Sport trim does not include front fogs. Assuming that the wiring harness is there and it is only a matter of the front cowl 'panel' and light housing, etc, does anyone have a way for ordering european parts?

[AUSf22]

I believe all the 2ers outside of the U.S and Canada that aren't the M235i will have fog lights as standard with the M-Sport kit. You can find the fog lights on eBay but you will need to search for the mesh surround

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

I believe all the 2ers outside of the U.S and Canada that aren't the M235i will have fog lights as standard with the M-Sport kit. You can find the fog lights on eBay but you will need to search for the mesh surround

The 228i also loses the fogs in M Sport guise (in the US, the market referenced).

[mfourn20]

Are the fog lights useless like most these days?

Just curious. Most seem the be purely cosmetic.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by mfourn20

Are the fog lights useless like most these days?

Just curious. Most seem the be purely cosmetic.

If you do not already have the lighting package they are very useful. They double the amount of light on the road in front of you. The amount of light the Halogens toss off without them on is not very bright.

[AUSf22]

I do use the foglights here in Australia when I'm driving at night during winter, especially if I'm doing a trip away from the city areas, there can be a bit of fog and it's always good to see whats on the road in front of you.

I really like the foglights on the 2er, here's mine next to 2 m235is

[mfourn20]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

If you do not already have the lighting package they are very useful. They double the amount of light on the road in front of you. The amount of light the Halogens toss off without them on is not very bright.

Nice to know they're truly functioning fogs. So many cars today just have them for looks.

I've got the halogens on my m-sport 228i. I think they're pretty good for halogens.

[B.a.f]

Fog lights are also used for "corner lights" I think ...

[Cyberdemon]

Fog lights really shouldn't be used to offset low output from the headlights because they point outward and will be very bright to oncoming drivers.

Keep in mind the M235 receives aux radiators in each of the side vents. So on an M235 retrofitting the fog lights will be cutting off airflow. On a 228, you would need to purchase the external parts as well as the internal switch and likely the wiring harness. I can not imagine BMW leaving the wiring in for something they've removed.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Fog lights really shouldn't be used to offset low output from the headlights because they point outward and will be very bright to oncoming drivers.

Keep in mind the M235 receives aux radiators in each of the side vents. So on an M235 retrofitting the fog lights will be cutting off airflow. On a 228, you would need to purchase the external parts as well as the internal switch and likely the wiring harness. I can not imagine BMW leaving the wiring in for something they've removed.

Graf 1: Exactly. Fog lights are meant to illuminate directly ahead of a car brightly for about 50 feet, so that form can be seen through densely particulated air (fog, mist, smoke, etc.) -- they are not meant to have near the 'throw' of regular headlights. Those that do throw more like headlights are commonly called "driving lights", not "fog lights". In previous cars with fogs, I always changed the bulb from white to yellow; 'warmer' light temps have been proven to cut through reflective particulates bettern than 'cooler' light temps.

Graf 2: If you look at the U.S.-spec 228i M Sport's lower side grilles closely, you'll note that the actual pass-through area of the intake only takes up about half the surface area of the grille. Same goes for the M235. There's plenty of room for fogs, as the AUS-spec M Sport in the pic shows.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Fog lights really shouldn't be used to offset low output from the headlights because they point outward and will be very bright to oncoming drivers.

Keep in mind the M235 receives aux radiators in each of the side vents. So on an M235 retrofitting the fog lights will be cutting off airflow. On a 228, you would need to purchase the external parts as well as the internal switch and likely the wiring harness. I can not imagine BMW leaving the wiring in for something they've removed.

Maybe, but they help me see in the dark..so I use them. If they are messing with oncoming drivers they will usually flash you. I have never had anybody flash me with them on in my 2er. I have had folks flash me in the past when I have had them on in a truck. Of course you are higher off the road which brings the light right into a standard car drivers eye line.

[scrape1]

Never saw the point of fog lights. I was always taught to look as far up the road as practical, not a few feet in front of the car where the fog lights shine their light. Simply put, they don't put the light where I am looking.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by scrape1

Never saw the point of fog lights. I was always taught to look as far up the road as practical, not a few feet in front of the car where the fog lights shine their light. Simply put, they don't put the light where I am looking.

They just add to the light from your Halogens. Very noticeable difference in the brightest of the light in front you. You can't look further than your regular lamp beams anyway. Having Fog Lights just makes them brighter, does not add to the distance of your regular beam.

[B.a.f]

Fog lights are designed to be used ... in fog condition !
This is why they are placed as closed to the ground as possible to light the road below the fog. Normaly with fog ligths on, one shuts the regular lights down because they only light the fog, like a wall in front of the driver

[sstarrx3]

I don't give a rats azz what they are designed for...they make it easier for me to see at night...so they get used!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

I don't give a rats azz what they are designed for...they make it easier for me to see at night...so they get used!

Well, you should, sstarr; see my post above. What you desire are driving lights; what the 2-series has are fog lights. There are major differences in light throw, reflector design, beam aim, and other things between the two. And believe me; most drivers who live in mountainous or coastal regions where temperature inversions occur often (read: Alps, western and southwestern Germany, northern European coast, northwestern U.S. coast, etc.) GREATLY appreciate the difference.

Check out the websites of PIAA, Cibie or Hella for a primer.

[sstarrx3]

http://m.cartalk.com/content/whos-right-about-fog-lights

[Spydeputy]

Originally Posted by scrape1

Never saw the point of fog lights. I was always taught to look as far up the road as practical, not a few feet in front of the car where the fog lights shine their light. Simply put, they don't put the light where I am looking.

If you are driving in the fog you will wish you had them.
BTW, fog lights are yellow BC that color (about 25K) cuts thru better than white.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

I don't give a rats azz what they are designed for...they make it easier for me to see at night...so they get used!

The trouble is, they don't. By lighting up the area immediately in front of the car more brightly, they make your distance vision worse. Fog lights should only be used in inclement weather, when you can't see down the road anyway.

Read this for the technical explanation:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...fog_lamps.html

[Sportstick]

I am surprised at the general mis-understanding of fog lamps. They are not intended to be used with, or to supplement headlamps. They are placed low to get under the fog, as fog generally starts a foot or two off the ground. Normal headlamp illumination will bounce off fog, back at the driver, and deteriorate vision for drivers in fog. The fog lamp illumination goes as far as possible under the fog to provide as much light as possible for the roadway, and driving speeds should be adjusted accordingly. They are not intended to enhance design, appearance, or look cool. In some states, it is illegal to illuminate them simultaneously with headlamps, and some vehicles are wired to prevent using both together.

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

The trouble is, they don't. By lighting up the area immediately in front of the car more brightly, they make your distance vision worse. Fog lights should only be used in inclement weather, when you can't see down the road anyway.

Read this for the technical explanation:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...fog_lamps.html

Always a great source