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      07-09-2015, 08:50 PM   #1
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Good idea to share a car at a HPDE with son?

I will be attending the August 1st and 2nd BMW CCA GGC HPDE at Thunderhill raceway and was wondering if it is too much for my 2014 BMW 335i m-sport to share it with two novice HPDE drivers? I would like to take my 18year old. He is an excellent driver and has modified his Mazda 3 so I am not worried about him but if the car can take it.
Thanks,
Chris
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      07-10-2015, 07:57 AM   #2
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They will move one of you guys to the intermediate run group. The obvious concern is that the car will get little to no downtime between the intermediate and novice run groups, which are pretty much always back to back.

If it was me I would go out of my way to flush fresh brake fluid (preferably proper track fluid like Motul RBF600 or Castrol SRF), and make sure the brake pads are in excellent shape.

What you want to be absolutely sure of is the intermediate group driver is taking the cool down lap, thus giving the car ample time to at least cool the brakes and oil. Then maybe be sure the novice group driver is taking a lap or two easy to start, just to make sure temps are in check.

Lastly, you want to be extremely diligent about monitoring tire temps. Running something like 34 psi cold to make sure you stay around 40 psi hot is the ticket to prevent obscene tire wear. Try to keep both of you from overdriving the car, being a good driver is all about being smooth and avoiding destroying your consumables.

I think you'll be fine sharing the car, all of my above advice is on the extreme conservative side. I'm sure you will both have a blast. I would consider getting HPDE insurance to be safe.
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      07-10-2015, 02:04 PM   #3
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stock RFT and stock brake pads?

Would be good to bring his Mazda also in case the 335 can't handle it

On my F80 the PSS get greasy after 3 laps and it is easy to heat the brake pads hot enough to start smearing them on the rotors

If doing this in an F80, I'd go with Pagid pads and better tire, so I'd expect the to have to do the same for a 335

I did track my 335 and the stock summer RFT (contisportcontact 5SP) were a joke. They had very little grip. If you have these tires, I would change them out and not bother tracking them. the S001 seem better but I have no track experience with those
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      07-10-2015, 09:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
They will move one of you guys to the intermediate run group. The obvious concern is that the car will get little to no downtime between the intermediate and novice run groups, which are pretty much always back to back.

If it was me I would go out of my way to flush fresh brake fluid (preferably proper track fluid like Motul RBF600 or Castrol SRF), and make sure the brake pads are in excellent shape.

What you want to be absolutely sure of is the intermediate group driver is taking the cool down lap, thus giving the car ample time to at least cool the brakes and oil. Then maybe be sure the novice group driver is taking a lap or two easy to start, just to make sure temps are in check.

Lastly, you want to be extremely diligent about monitoring tire temps. Running something like 34 psi cold to make sure you stay around 40 psi hot is the ticket to prevent obscene tire wear. Try to keep both of you from overdriving the car, being a good driver is all about being smooth and avoiding destroying your consumables.

I think you'll be fine sharing the car, all of my above advice is on the extreme conservative side. I'm sure you will both have a blast. I would consider getting HPDE insurance to be safe.

What he said.
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      07-13-2015, 05:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driggett View Post
I will be attending the August 1st and 2nd BMW CCA GGC HPDE at Thunderhill raceway and was wondering if it is too much for my 2014 BMW 335i m-sport to share it with two novice HPDE drivers? I would like to take my 18year old. He is an excellent driver and has modified his Mazda 3 so I am not worried about him but if the car can take it.
Thanks,
Chris
Two novices? It won't be an issue with the car. Because of the way BMW CCA schools are structured, one of you will be bumped up to C to accommodate sharing of the car. That creates a huge logistical issue since C class speeds are significantly higher than D and one of you will be spending the majority of your time trying to exercise your left arm.

Have him bring his Mazda. Makes no sense for the rest of the C class to have to deal with a novice that got bumped up when the speed difference between the Mazda 3 and the 335i will be negligible for novices on track.
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      07-19-2015, 02:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driggett View Post
I will be attending the August 1st and 2nd BMW CCA GGC HPDE at Thunderhill raceway and was wondering if it is too much for my 2014 BMW 335i m-sport to share it with two novice HPDE drivers? I would like to take my 18year old. He is an excellent driver and has modified his Mazda 3 so I am not worried about him but if the car can take it.
Thanks,
Chris
The car can take it but since you'll both be in the novice group you'll be short a car. Likely they'll bump one of you to intermediate but that won't be a lot of fun. A novice in the intermediate group will constantly be waving cars by. If you can get two cars get two cars. If you're first timers the novice group is the best place to start.

As novices the car's current setup is likely fine. If you haven't done a brake fluid flush in more than 12 months, I'd do that. Check pads and tire tread depth to ensure you have enough. You'll need that for a tech check anyway. If you return a couple if times your skill will likely start to really punish the conti run flats i.e you'll start to kill them but they'll strike back and eventually try to kill you. If you get a bit of the track bug tires will likely be the first thing you change but won't be the last
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      10-22-2015, 03:17 AM   #7
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Your son will have the time of his life whether he is driving your f30 or his Mazda. I promise that. I would recommend you take both cars as well and maybe switch cars for a session to change things up.

My first ever track day was at sonoma raceway and I did the full day in aa bone stock 101bhp fiat 500. Till this day, it is still one of my most memorable and most fun times ever on a track. There's something to be said about being able to take a car to its absolute limits!

The kicker, the fiat 500 was my rental car while visiting San Francisco hahaha
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      10-22-2015, 03:40 PM   #8
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What these guys said.

I run in intermediate now, and brought my dad this year to his first hpde, and we shared my 165,000 mile 330i. If I was still in novice, it wouldn't have worked but since we were in different run groups it was fine. More importantly my father had a blast, totally hooked. His instructor was really pleased with him, and he earned quite a few point bys!

He has a 2009 Z51/6 speed Vette, he wants to get out there in that car but agrees it is a bit more logical to use my car for at lease a couple more events- its more forgiving and a lot less valuable (at least $$ wise ) and still a hell of a lot of fun out there.

If you were in different run groups, I don't know why your 335i wouldn't handle it, just bring some extra pads just in case if you don't already. I like to bring spares for a few different items, almost to the point of overkill- but another participant was thankful I did and was able to use a set of half used EBC yellows I had on hand after their pads bit the (brake) dust.
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      10-22-2015, 03:48 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!
As it worked out I went alone and had a blast.
The 2014 335i handled it with a yawn and a what else do you have! I must go again and really try to push this car.
I went around curves and one particular instance the instructor was yelling brake!brake!brake! And I thought to myself either I can go into the dirt or do a 80 degree turn at 90. Well I opted to do the turn and the car did it perfectly and my instructor was somewhat amazed and said that he had gone into the dirt 2 times yesterday
on that turn.

What a great little car.
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