[itrocks4u]

After reading numerous threads about RWD versus X-drive, it seems like majority agree that X-drive really takes away the 'BMW feel' from the car. Although there is an option of X-drive with DHP (i.e. adaptive suspension), it seems like most on this forum still go the route of H&R, Dinan, Eibach or ACS springs, if not full coilovers. X-drive torque split tends to be 60:40 to the rear, which is supposed to give it a rear wheel drive feel, so how is it possible that BMW engineers dropped the ball on the x-drive to make it a concern for majority of the enthusiasts on the forum?

PS. This is all assuming xdrive is preferred in snow belt area and this is not supposed to turn in another RWD+snow is better than xdrive etc etc.

[Portimao Blues]

From what I've read here and on Bimmerfest, if you are in the market for a vehicle with xDrive and prefer a more sporty ride and handling, you need to get either DHP or go the Dinan route. I don't have DHP or any Dinan mods. I keep my car in Sport+ mode a lot and I am fine with the ride and steering on my xDrive. However, for my next BMW I will definitely look for a car with DHP when my lease is up.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by itrocks4u

After reading numerous threads about RWD versus X-drive, it seems like majority agree that X-drive really takes away the 'BMW feel' from the car. ... so how is it possible that BMW engineers dropped the ball on the x-drive to make it a concern for majority of the enthusiasts on the forum?

The current xDrive, and the systems dating back to 2001 in the E46, fit in with BMW's sales philosophy of selling what sells. People want AWD, BMW needed to compete with Audi Quattro, BMW didn't want to spend a ton of money on development and build a system that was expensive to build and repair like the E30's 325iX system; as simple as that.

BMW isn't building the xDrive system cars to compete with high-performance alternatives, or for enthusiasts; it's building them to sell more cars. Enthusiasts buy a 335is, or a 320i sport package, or (now) a 228i track package or m235i.

[auf Deutsch]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

A nice little writeup comparing the two

[KGB_123_99]

I find it still feels like a proper BMW. This is not my first BMW but is my first xDrive. I can still go around corners sideways if I want too, which is what really matters if you're going after RWD.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The current xDrive, and the systems dating back to 2001 in the E46, fit in with BMW's sales philosophy of selling what sells. People want AWD, BMW needed to compete with Audi Quattro, BMW didn't want to spend a ton of money on development and build a system that was expensive to build and repair like the E30's 325iX system; as simple as that.

BMW isn't building the xDrive system cars to compete with high-performance alternatives, or for enthusiasts; it's building them to sell more cars. Enthusiasts buy a 335is, or a 320i sport package, or (now) a 228i track package or m235i.

XDrive = Xpensive drive. A technology used to skim between $700 and $5000 out of your wallet for the same system, which somehow changes price depending on model of car. The more the car cost, the less XDrive costs, unless you buy a 428, then you get the most screwed over paying the biggest delta between X and RWD.

Is the current and past xi system the same? I thought it was different (except for the money skim, that's the same). They used to call it 'xi'. I guess the name got upgraded to X-Drive but not it's technology. I can see why most enthusiast steer clear and most mechanics hate the current X-Drive just as much as they hated the old one, perhaps even more depending on experience. The last complaint i heard was there was no drain plug for the XDrive transfer case. Let me guess? Eternal Unicorn Diff oil sprinkled with fairy dust to last until the end of the Enchanted Kingdom, eternity, or 40,000km, whichever comes first.

I agree that BMW is jumping on the AWD drive bandwagon to sell more cars and couldn't give a flying fling whether their system was the first or 15th best (where but in the car world can you have 15th best?). But my feelings are more of sympathy rather than frustration. When last at the dealer, I got 'Aubry' to spec out a 320 XDrive with sport auto (which requires the performance package), sport line, nav, and xeons, then spec out a 328 RWD with sport auto and sportline only. MSRP: 51k vs. 48K.

So for $3000 extra I get 60 less horsepower and 60 less ft-lb of torque and a lower model car. I guess I'd consider myself an enthusiast because I sure am enthusiast about buying a better car for $3000 less.

Extra kick in the financial gonads: If you order a 320i BMW doesn't force the Performance Package on you to get sport transmission. Want XDrive and sport transmission? $1500 for the performance package + $1800 for auto sport tranny. Nice. Real nice.

* - all figures are from BMW Canada's web site and are in Canadian dollars, which are either worth a lot or on par with Kyrgyzstan rubble.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

A nice little writeup comparing the two

An M235xi is attractive to me; but I like a 4-door.

Rant:
One thing regarding C&D, and some posters here: it continues to annoy me that everyone thinks that 50/50 weight distribution is the be-all and end-all for handling. It's not. There are advantages, particularly for a RWD car, that make it really nice for non-expert drivers, but there are dis-advantages, too.

The fact of the matter is that the 1% difference in distrubition for the xDrive versions results in no appreciable difference to 95% of the drivers, and very little to the remaining 5%.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by menncars

...
Is the current and past xi system the same? I thought it was different (except for the money skim, that's the same).

They are different. The current (xDrive) has a motor-driven clutch that varies the torque available to the front wheels. The previous one (in the E46 'xi cars) had a fixed torque apportionment. (FYI, the original 'iX in the E30 had Ferguson-type viscous couplings for the center diff, and also the rear diff.)

The current system, given the control of the center diff by the TCS computer, is actually quite good wrt it's competitors in terms of winter traction.

[M47]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blues

From what I've read here and on Bimmerfest, if you are in the market for a vehicle with xDrive and prefer a more sporty ride and handling, you need to get either DHP or go the Dinan route. I don't have DHP or any Dinan mods. I keep my car in Sport+ mode a lot and I am fine with the ride and steering on my xDrive. However, for my next BMW I will definitely look for a car with DHP when my lease is up.

Does the Dinan Perfomance Spring includes? I'm newbie here, my first BMW and it is an xDrive

[tjlees]

I not sure the feel and feedback is that different between and xdrive and sdrive. Certainly when I drove the f34 228 sdrive, the 335 xdrive was far better handling. One had m sport on 18s the other adaptive on 19s.

I'd be hard pushed to notice the 1-2% diff on weight distro.

The feel and feedback on the BMW EPS is not that great even on the M4 when compared to a 911 or car with no power-steering.

There are also lots of other variables that come into play. The suspension on the xdrive is not m sport, you only get similar if you specify adaptive or swap out for AC schnitzer. I found the size of tyre made a significant difference - going from 18" to 19" made the turn in much better and minimised the understeer. The f31 and f34 adds even more weight. The suspension setup on the 4 series is different to 3 series, and finally the LCI has now introduced some further suspension tweaks.

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by menncars

XDrive = Xpensive drive. A technology used to skim between $700 and $5000 out of your wallet for the same system, which somehow changes price depending on model of car. The more the car cost, the less XDrive costs, unless you buy a 428, then you get the most screwed over paying the biggest delta between X and RWD.

Pretty basic economics. Cars where they sell more units and have a better margin can enjoy a smaller delta. Low priced cars already sold at the lower end and with fewer fold specing it out with the unit, and with minimal markup have to pay closer to full price for the option.

Originally Posted by menncars

When last at the dealer, I got 'Aubry' to spec out a 320 XDrive with sport auto (which requires the performance package), sport line, nav, and xeons, then spec out a 328 RWD with sport auto and sportline only. MSRP: 51k vs. 48K.

???? Your tirade makes no sense.

For $3000 extra you get a different car with different options and equipment. This is SURPRISING to you? I can spec out a loaded Fiesta ST for more than a basic Focus. For $4000 more I can get a lower spec car with a smaller engine, and 30 less HP. It's an OUTRAGE.....of course, the Fiesta has all the bells and whistles and recaro heated seats, etc, etc.......but how dare they. LOL

You are comparing a lower end model loaded with options to a bare bones up model without them. If you choose to get less car for more toys (AWD, nav, xenon, etc) than that's your choice. If the toys aren't that important to you, then get the car with more power and live without the toys. But don't make it sound like you can get MORE overall car for less money, because you can't. You are trading nav, xenons, and AWD for your 60HP. If you want the HP fine, but maybe someone else figured out they would rather have the toys, and instead of paying the thousands more for the 328 equipped the same way they can get the 320 and a $400 piggyback and have the toys AND the 60hp.


I test drove an Xdrive F31 luxury line with no DHP.....I remember being impressed with how well it handled. I purchased my F31 with DHP due to being scared into it from another forum (Plus, I liked the thought of having a nice firm ride when I drive and a softer one when the wife is commuting). I have no doubt that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference under normal driving. I am happy I got the DHP, and have since taken it further with Shockware.....but then again, I actually track my cars (yes, I track my diesel wagon and I get many compliments and comments LOL)......but to claim it's a "requirement" is just internet lunacy.

[tjlees]

The f30 se I drove without m sport or adaptive suspension floats and wobbles on the twisties in the UK on a spirited drive. Nothing wrong with the standard suspension for highway work, but with a nice straight six shoving out 300+ horses, with good handling, excellent balance and grip, I'd want the suspension firm.

Given the xdrive comes with standard se suspension, if you want flatter cornering and less movement then go for adaptive or ACS suspension.

I would interested to see how the new suspension tweaks etc on the LCI improve and compare to the jag XE.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blues

From what I've read here and on Bimmerfest, if you are in the market for a vehicle with xDrive and prefer a more sporty ride and handling, you need to get either DHP or go the Dinan route. I don't have DHP or any Dinan mods. I keep my car in Sport+ mode a lot and I am fine with the ride and steering on my xDrive. However, for my next BMW I will definitely look for a car with DHP when my lease is up.

+1!!!!! xDrive isn't nearly as bad as the forums would have you believe, but if you want the best handling with it DHP is preferable. xDrive does NOT take away the "BMW-ness".

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Thumper333

. . .

You are trading nav, xenons, and AWD for your 60HP.

Only the AWD. In Canada the config is a bit different than the States. The winter package comes standard on pretty much anything BMW sells here. Next, the 328i base comes with Nav and Xeons (i.e. the lighting package) as standard. 320i base to 328i base are a 7k difference in Canada (35 vs 42) where as in the US I think it's a 4.5k (33 vs 37.5) difference between the two base models. Throwing on XDrive to the 320 adds 4k. Bringing the delta to 3k. Add in the nav (2k) and lighting package (1.2k) and the 320 is now out pacing the 328 with the same options. Move on to sport line, 1.5K for the 328 and 3.2k for the 320i. Sport tranny: 1.8k for the 328 and 1.8 for the 320 but you need to get the performance pack, which includes the DHP (well liked) but also the Variable Steering (of which much vitriol has been spewed) so add in 1.5k.

In other words, unless you're getting a great deal, loading up the 320 doesn't make sense, not only for me, but for a lot of people. An extra 60HP is a lot of power to give up, especially if you can get it for less $200 less for similarly optioned cars (minus sport, minus auto tranny) that are the same vehicle with (mostly) the same engine. 60Hp is almost an entire Smart Car. If you're a badge hound, the 328 just carries that little bit extra.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

I find it still feels like a proper BMW. This is not my first BMW but is my first xDrive. I can still go around corners sideways if I want too, which is what really matters if you're going after RWD.

[BimmerBoomer]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

A nice little writeup comparing the two

Except that this is an unusual situation, with the xDrive being slower in a straight line. This is not generally true (at least up to 100mph) to the point where I wonder just what happened here.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

Except that this is an unusual situation, with the xDrive being slower in a straight line. This is not generally true (at least up to 100mph) to the point where I wonder just what happened here.

So much depends on the tire choice. Maybe the RWD was carrying performance rubber and hooked up well and the AWD had all-seasons or something like that.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

A nice little writeup comparing the two

One key thing to remember about the M235 xdrive is that it is the only xdrive model sold in North America where the xdrive and RWD car have the same suspension, ride height, etc. If the F30/1/2/3/4 chassis was designed this way then xdrive would also serve the enthusiasts. There have been numerous threads calling for an m340/440 xdrive set up like the m235 where the xdrive shares the same suspension and ride height as the RWD car.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So much depends on the tire choice. Maybe the RWD was carrying performance rubber and hooked up well and the AWD had all-seasons or something like that.

That m235 was beat by the 435i xdrive on all seasons. The 435i xdrive had 300hp, weighs more than the m235i and trapped 107mph at the 1/4.

The 228i xdrive and the 228i rwd CD tested were identical with the xdrive trapping a bit higher than the rwd IIRC

Something was odd about that m235i, it can't get beat by a 435i xdrive on all seasons. I would toss the m235i xdrive test in the garbage where it belongs

[bahasad]

Apples to oranges here but i'll partake:

F30 xdrive vs. E90 rwd both of which I own: the E90 definitely feels lighter on it's feet and a bit more nimble. I have a fwd civic si and I've driven other RWD bmws. All of them feel "loose" and "fluid". My F30 does not feel like that - it feels very stable, almost too stable, but loses some of that frantic and "light" feeling.

Personally, I'm looking to get back into a RWD BMW. I like that feeling of nimbleness that I'm not sure Xdrive delivers. I feel like with a great set of winters and a reasonably good sense of driving, I won't need AWD anymore. My F30 has Dinan suspension, michelin pilot sports, and lightweight wheels btw.

[CHCCubs]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1!!!!! xDrive isn't nearly as bad as the forums would have you believe, but if you want the best handling with it DHP is preferable. xDrive does NOT take away the "BMW-ness".

Agreed

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So much depends on the tire choice. Maybe the RWD was carrying performance rubber and hooked up well and the AWD had all-seasons or something like that.

It's definitely weird. The latest Roundel has an article on the M235xi, and it quotes a 4.4s 0-60 for it against a 4.6s for the M235i (these are probably BMW numbers.)