These brakes are crap for serious track use!

[Gearhead999s]

I had issues at WGI with my rear brakes going away after about 6 laps the majority of braking happening in the front and long pedal travel when they go away and I was braking quite early compared to what I did in my E92 M3 with a Stoptech 380/355 which was a bulletproof system.

Nannies are 100 % off.

Fresh 650 Fluid with a full flush.

Fresh Pagid RSL pads on the front and 50% RS29's on the rear.I have contacted Pagid and they are trying get me RSL's for the rear.They said the different pads should not be the issue.The rear pads are running hotter than the fronts.

Rebled them and the fluid came out fine.





The Pads on this car are about half the size that I had on my Stoptech BBK on my E92 M3.Is this system undersized for the performance level of this car?I am not going to put a BBK on this car as I will get something else for track duty that has proper brakes on it.And yes I am quite aggressive on track with lots of endurance racing experience.

[Gearhead999s]

Is it possible that the nannies do not turn off 100% on this car?

[nicknaz]

Compare notes with MasterC17? He seemed ok with the brakes at WGI ?

DSC OFF really does seem like DSC OFF in my experience

[Gearhead999s]

Well the Glen is hardest place that I have run on for brakes for lapping and as that is the last event for the year that I will attend it probably not be an issue again for a while. Still I am really quite disappointed with the performance of these brakes.

[rubber_ducky]

Seems that the calipers didn't change color the way that MasterC17's did. I don't recall if he was using OE pads or something more track focused.

Perhaps some ductwork would help.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

Seems that the calipers didn't change color the way that MasterC17's did. I don't recall if he was using OE pads or something more track focused.

Perhaps some ductwork would help.

The thing that upsets me is that I was being quite conservative with my braking compared to the previous cars that I have had at the Glen.I was quite surprised by this as I was only doing 15 minutes of our 40 minute sessions like I normally do.

[chili cheese]

Stock suspension? What tires were you running? Track temps reasonable?

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by chili cheese

Stock suspension? What tires were you running? Track temps reasonable?

Yokohoma AD08R's 275/30 19 295/30 19 on stock rims with 100% stock adaptive suspension.Mid 80's for temp so nothing crazy.

[chili cheese]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Yokohoma AD08R's 275/30 19 295/30 19 on stock rims with 100% stock adaptive suspension.Mid 80's for temp so nothing crazy.

Hmmm. If you've got racing experience then I'm sure you're faster than me. I have the Stop Tech Trophy on my E92 and I always felt that those pads were kind of on the small side for a BBK. If the stock pads in the F82 are smaller than those, that does make one wonder.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by chili cheese

Hmmm. If you've got racing experience then I'm sure you're faster than me. I have the Stop Tech Trophy on my E92 and I always felt that those pads were kind of on the small side for a BBK. If the stock pads in the F82 are smaller than those, that does make one wonder.

The fronts are are about 50% of the size of the Stoptech ST60's.And rears are also much smaller than the ST40's.I just talked to my "brake expert" and the rears overheating for sure.He agrees this points to either Nannie intervention or the electronic brake force distribution system especially with my high rear pad wear concerns.

[Gearhead999s]

My Pagid dealer had a conversation with Andreas at Pagid and his feeling after looking at the pictures is there is something that is causing the rear brakes to be coming on as the rear pads are running way too hot which makes no sense especially with my moderate braking forces.My average braking at WGI was in the .65 to .75 G area with peaks to .8.I used to see 1.1 to 1.2 G peaks with my E92 with the Stoptech BBK on street rubber.

[MaynardZed]

If the nannies went back on somehow I think you'd hear the rear brakes squealing a bit on corner exits?

Fwiw my brakes went away this last track day at about 10-12 minutes in to each session. Carbotech xp12/10, SRF, etc. My front pads were low to start the day and it was 90-95 F so it didn't surprise me. I think if the pads are not very thick the heat will infiltrate the system quicker? Maybe that's why your rears got hotter? That being said, your rear caliper color looks normal. My font calipers are dark olive green, almost black now from the heat.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

If the nannies went back on somehow I think you'd hear the rear brakes squealing a bit on corner exits?

Fwiw my brakes went away this last track day at about 10-12 minutes in to each session. Carbotech xp12/10, SRF, etc. My front pads were low to start the day and it was 90-95 F so it didn't surprise me. I think if the pads are not very thick the heat will infiltrate the system quicker? Maybe that's why your rears got hotter? That being said, your rear caliper color looks normal. My font calipers are dark olive green, almost black now from the heat.

As Andreas says the rear brakes do not have to be on very much to cause a lot of extra heat.

[IND-Distribution]

Once the initial excitement of having a fixed caliper brake system from the factory wears off, I believe that many M4 owners will find their OE brake system inadequate for serious track use. The OE BMW hardware does not compare to what is provided by the aftermarket, even when the supplier and manufacturer is the same (Brembo).

I believe one contributing factor is pad swept area. I did some quick analysis in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1081905

Pad areas when compared to a Brembo GT kit are as follows (StopTech numbers would be similar)

M3/M4 OEM front: 71cm²

M3/M4 OEM rear: 40cm²

Brembo GT front: 95cm²

Brembo GT rear: 62cm²

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

Once the initial excitement of having a fixed caliper brake system from the factory wears off, I believe that many M4 owners will find their OE brake system inadequate for serious track use. The OE BMW hardware does not compare to what is provided by the aftermarket, even when the supplier and manufacturer is the same (Brembo).

I believe one contributing factor is pad swept area. I did some quick analysis in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1081905

Pad areas when compared to a Brembo GT kit are as follows (StopTech numbers would be similar)

M3/M4 OEM front: 71cm²

M3/M4 OEM rear: 40cm²

Brembo GT front: 95cm²

Brembo GT rear: 62cm²

What do you think of the calipers that come with the CCB option? Would it be worthwhile to use those calipers with iron rotors or just move to an aftermarket brake setup ?

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

As Andreas says the rear brakes do not have to be on very much to cause a lot of extra heat.

Maybe something wrong with your bias? I'm onto my third set of XP12 fronts, but still have about half of my original XP10 rears left.

Yes, a BBK would be nice. I'm thinking get one for my M4 then put the stock M4 brakes on my E36.

[turbo8765]

Did you notice any intervention at the rear? SOT did you get the feeling there was any intervention?

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

Did you notice any intervention at the rear? SOT did you get the feeling there was any intervention?

Not that I can feel but there is something happening for sure.

[kitesurfer]

I trimmed the majority of the metal off on my rotor shields except areas where they are close to suspension components to get more air flow to the rotors and still offer heat protection. you may want to do that or remove the rotor shields completely to see if that helps.

[Woodengun]

Are the vanes in the rear rotors clear?

[MasterC17]

Here is my experience. I ran WGI with Carbotech XP10's all around. I destroyed the front pads. Gone in less than a day. They were pretty sketchy, so I was braking pretty early. However, the rears held up absolutely fine. Barely any wear. So, I bought a set of XP12's for the front that I will be running Tuesday at Thompson. It will be interesting to see what the results are. My hope is that they will hold up fine and I won't loose my pedal like I did with the XP10's. We'll see how it goes. For reference, the highest I peaked for braking force was a little over .8 g's with the XP10's (my E46 could pull about 1.2).

Regardless, I would agree that I'm a bit disappointed with the stock setup. I really thought BMW had nailed it with the brakes (finally), but now I'm not so sure that is the case. The pads are not much bigger than they were on previous generations, so the friction and heat being generated by them is massive. I'll report back with results on the XP12's.

[AMPowerJ]

Well crap! I thought the OEM system was going to be up to task this time around. Too bad they didn't have a CCB option without the CC rotors.

BBK for me in the future probably. I like the confidence of knowing I'm going to have brakes at the end of the long straights at VIR.