[Citizen M]

I'm seriously considering a 228i or M235i but there are a lot of questions I need clarification on. I've already test driven both fairly hard with a wide variety of options, so my first hand experience quota is probably as satisfied as it's going to get.

1: With the 228i, I would definitely get the track handling package. I like how the M Sport looks (don't really care about Sport Line) but, when combined with with THP, it seems like all you're getting is the body kit, the wheel and the seats with adjustable bolstering (and a $700 discount from the THP, leaving $2300 for upgraded seats, steering wheel and body kit). As I understand it, all of the performance upgraded parts (wheels/tires, suspension, brakes) are replaced anyway in the THP. So my question is whether there is any performance reason to get the M Sport + the THP, or is M Sport mostly cosmetic on top of the THP.

2: I notice that only in the sport line information does it list an enhanced top speed limiter. Does the THP and/or M Sport have this too? If not, is that just a tune away? I would think the speed limiter would be associated with the tires, in which case, the THP, M Sport and Sport Line ought to all be satisfactory. If not, what is the governor set at on the 228i? If it's above 140, I suspect it would never become an issue anyway, but if it's at like 100, that's going to bother me.

3: Streaming music wirelessly--it's something I want. I plan on getting the tech package on either the 228i or M235i--but do I need the enhanced smartphone integration option in addition to it to stream music wirelessly?

4: Parking assistant--anyone have this and how useful is it? I very rarely have to parallel park, but I do despise it.

5: Cold weather package: I like the idea of having a heated steering wheel, but I'm thinking about swapping the wheel out for an Alcantara one in the BMW accessories catalog--will I lose that if I swap the wheels?

6: Is there any evidence to suggest the 228i is more or less reliable than the M235i?

7: As I understand it, an upgrade to the BMW 2, 3 and 4 cars is coming in about a year and a half. Do we know if the BMW 2 series will be getting the upgraded engines and nomenclature then? I'm weird in that I like to have the current thing, so if it's coming out soon, I might prefer to wait, or try to figure out how much it'd cost me to trade my car in (financing it) for the new model.

8: What sort of discounts are Texas/DFW drivers seeing on either of these models?

9: I'll be getting either with the 8 speed. However, I prefer to do all the shift controls myself. In my test drive, in manual mode, the shifts were really hard. Is there a way I can do a manual mode all the time but with the normal shift hardness?

I drove an M Sport/THP 228i with the Alcantara wheel (otherwise no options) and a loaded M235i which was very illuminating. I'm currently driving a Pontiac G8 GT and I wanted to move to something smaller and with a greater emphasis on handling than power, so the 228i seems like a good fit for me. Where I live you can't really open up a car as fast as the M235i unfortunately so my preferences for a fun car have been altered to fit my new town. I can afford either safely, but I do like to save money, so I would prefer to spend less if possible. I'm thinking I might pick up the 228i for the next year and a half, save my pennies, then jump into the M240i or perhaps M2 when those become available.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer this. I really do a lot of homework before I buy a car.

[Icy J]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

1: With the 228i, I would definitely get the track handling package. I like how the M Sport looks (don't really care about Sport Line) but, when combined with with THP, it seems like all you're getting is the body kit, the wheel and the seats with adjustable bolstering (and a $700 discount from the THP, leaving $2300 for upgraded seats, steering wheel and body kit). As I understand it, all of the performance upgraded parts (wheels/tires, suspension, brakes) are replaced anyway in the THP. So my question is whether there is any performance reason to get the M Sport + the THP, or is M Sport mostly cosmetic on top of the THP.

You get the nicer steering wheel/bodykit with M Sport, not sure about the performance related stuff (brakes, suspension etc) for the US market. Also, if you want to mod visually there are very few, if any front lips and rear diffusers require the M sport bumper.

[Citizen M]

Originally Posted by Icy J

You get the nicer steering wheel/bodykit with M Sport, not sure about the performance related stuff (brakes, suspension etc) for the US market. Also, if you want to mod visually there are very few, if any front lips and rear diffusers require the M sport bumper.

I don't think I'll need any body mods. I actually always leave my car stock except for tires so this shouldn't cause me too much trouble.

[silverbeet25]

parking assist don't work half of the times.

[mfourn20]

If you want any bolstering on the seat bottoms at all you in need the m sport or sport line package...the standard seats are flat as a pancake..BMW bean counters were smart this way but I feel the sport seats should come with a track package....

[2yo]

This is how I understand everything:

1) I got the base line 228i, as the msport/sport line did not appeal to me. If you are getting the thp, I do not believe that there is anything performance related that you will be missing besides the sport seats, which are give or take. I am a slightly bigger guy so the bolsters on the sport seats stuck into my side. People on the forum like them as this is an enthusiast forum, but I recommend trying them back to back to decide. If seats, a steering wheel, and body kit is worth the $2300 you quoted, then go for it. Also, the base line comes with 17 inch rims as opposed to the 18's with the sport and msport. People who track the car usually switch to 17s, but I don't know if you do that.

2) It is not at 100. I believe the standard speed limiter is around 135 and the sport bumps it to 155? Don't quote me on that one.

3) I am told bluetooth wireless streaming is standard starting this year, as it used to be tied into the technology package. I believe the extended bluetooth basically allows you to tie two phones to the system and gives you office apps.

4) I did not get it, but plenty have told me it only works sometimes. It's not the best system but it does help when it works.

5) If you get the cold weather package and change the steering wheel, the heating steering wheel ability no longer works, so I would stick with the heated seats option alone and save the $200 difference.

6) No

7) They are supposed to change to the new nomenclature (230i, m240i) however, when is anybody's guess. The news would have you believe that they are doing it for next model year, however, nobody knows. Just remember that if you keep waiting for the next new thing, you will wind up never buying a car, as they make something new for every year pretty much.

8) No idea, I live in NJ

9) Were you driving in sport/sport+ the whole time? Did you try comfort?


Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. If anybody wants to correct anything I said, feel free. We all have our own opinions and preferences, and are usually objective on this forum (that's why I frequent here). Good luck with your research and you can't really go wrong with either the 228i or the m235i. I am perfectly happy with my 228i base line and don't regret a thing. Tailor it to what you want and you will be happy for years to come. Happy motoring!

[den525]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

I'm seriously considering a 228i or M235i but there are a lot of questions I need clarification on. I've already test driven both fairly hard with a wide variety of options, so my first hand experience quota is probably as satisfied as it's going to get.

1: With the 228i, I would definitely get the track handling package. I like how the M Sport looks (don't really care about Sport Line) but, when combined with with THP, it seems like all you're getting is the body kit, the wheel and the seats with adjustable bolstering (and a $700 discount from the THP, leaving $2300 for upgraded seats, steering wheel and body kit). As I understand it, all of the performance upgraded parts (wheels/tires, suspension, brakes) are replaced anyway in the THP. So my question is whether there is any performance reason to get the M Sport + the THP, or is M Sport mostly cosmetic on top of the THP.

2: I notice that only in the sport line information does it list an enhanced top speed limiter. Does the THP and/or M Sport have this too? If not, is that just a tune away? I would think the speed limiter would be associated with the tires, in which case, the THP, M Sport and Sport Line ought to all be satisfactory. If not, what is the governor set at on the 228i? If it's above 140, I suspect it would never become an issue anyway, but if it's at like 100, that's going to bother me.

3: Streaming music wirelessly--it's something I want. I plan on getting the tech package on either the 228i or M235i--but do I need the enhanced smartphone integration option in addition to it to stream music wirelessly?

4: Parking assistant--anyone have this and how useful is it? I very rarely have to parallel park, but I do despise it.

5: Cold weather package: I like the idea of having a heated steering wheel, but I'm thinking about swapping the wheel out for an Alcantara one in the BMW accessories catalog--will I lose that if I swap the wheels?

6: Is there any evidence to suggest the 228i is more or less reliable than the M235i?

7: As I understand it, an upgrade to the BMW 2, 3 and 4 cars is coming in about a year and a half. Do we know if the BMW 2 series will be getting the upgraded engines and nomenclature then? I'm weird in that I like to have the current thing, so if it's coming out soon, I might prefer to wait, or try to figure out how much it'd cost me to trade my car in (financing it) for the new model.

8: What sort of discounts are Texas/DFW drivers seeing on either of these models?

9: I'll be getting either with the 8 speed. However, I prefer to do all the shift controls myself. In my test drive, in manual mode, the shifts were really hard. Is there a way I can do a manual mode all the time but with the normal shift hardness?

I drove an M Sport/THP 228i with the Alcantara wheel (otherwise no options) and a loaded M235i which was very illuminating. I'm currently driving a Pontiac G8 GT and I wanted to move to something smaller and with a greater emphasis on handling than power, so the 228i seems like a good fit for me. Where I live you can't really open up a car as fast as the M235i unfortunately so my preferences for a fun car have been altered to fit my new town. I can afford either safely, but I do like to save money, so I would prefer to spend less if possible. I'm thinking I might pick up the 228i for the next year and a half, save my pennies, then jump into the M240i or perhaps M2 when those become available.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer this. I really do a lot of homework before I buy a car.

1. Don't own 228i, based on driving the car (as a loaner from BMW), the car is pretty bad. So don't see any reason to get any M performance pack or track handling pack. As you won't take THAT car to the track.

2. It's a non issue unless you want to break the law 24/7. Probably can be coded out.

3. M235i streams music wirelessly via bluetooth.

4. Not sure what others say about the parking assistance... Never thought I'd find it useful, as I think I'm a good parker myself, but it's a pretty good system. I've used it at every opportunity and it has worked 100% of the time.

5. Yes

6. No, car is not even a year old. BUT you can research on the 1 series. Basically the same cars.

7. You'll forever be waiting if that's the case. There will always be something better and newer in the future, even same model each year there's an updated version. Rumours are name changes to 2 series. But overall, its the same car just an update. M2 will be out in 2 years.

8. NA

9. You'll get used to it.

As mentioned before 240 and 235 is just a name change... no point jumping from a 228 to a 240 in a year's time.

228 is a disappointment for me, pretty awful car for the price. M2 will be a great car... but if you said you can't even drive a M235i fast in texas, why get a M2?

But at the end of the day, it's your decision on which car to pick, I switch cars every 2 years or so. So I always look for what's the best car in the type of car you're looking for. I think the M235i is the best car in it's category at the moment. But is the 228i the best car in it's category? A clear no. There are so many better cars in the 2l engine category, 228i won't even come close to my top 5 or 10.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

I'm seriously considering a 228i or M235i but there are a lot of questions I need clarification on. I've already test driven both fairly hard with a wide variety of options, so my first hand experience quota is probably as satisfied as it's going to get.

1: With the 228i, I would definitely get the track handling package. I like how the M Sport looks (don't really care about Sport Line) but, when combined with with THP, it seems like all you're getting is the body kit, the wheel and the seats with adjustable bolstering (and a $700 discount from the THP, leaving $2300 for upgraded seats, steering wheel and body kit). As I understand it, all of the performance upgraded parts (wheels/tires, suspension, brakes) are replaced anyway in the THP. So my question is whether there is any performance reason to get the M Sport + the THP, or is M Sport mostly cosmetic on top of the THP.

2: I notice that only in the sport line information does it list an enhanced top speed limiter. Does the THP and/or M Sport have this too? If not, is that just a tune away? I would think the speed limiter would be associated with the tires, in which case, the THP, M Sport and Sport Line ought to all be satisfactory. If not, what is the governor set at on the 228i? If it's above 140, I suspect it would never become an issue anyway, but if it's at like 100, that's going to bother me.

3: Streaming music wirelessly--it's something I want. I plan on getting the tech package on either the 228i or M235i--but do I need the enhanced smartphone integration option in addition to it to stream music wirelessly?

4: Parking assistant--anyone have this and how useful is it? I very rarely have to parallel park, but I do despise it.

5: Cold weather package: I like the idea of having a heated steering wheel, but I'm thinking about swapping the wheel out for an Alcantara one in the BMW accessories catalog--will I lose that if I swap the wheels?

6: Is there any evidence to suggest the 228i is more or less reliable than the M235i?

7: As I understand it, an upgrade to the BMW 2, 3 and 4 cars is coming in about a year and a half. Do we know if the BMW 2 series will be getting the upgraded engines and nomenclature then? I'm weird in that I like to have the current thing, so if it's coming out soon, I might prefer to wait, or try to figure out how much it'd cost me to trade my car in (financing it) for the new model.

8: What sort of discounts are Texas/DFW drivers seeing on either of these models?

9: I'll be getting either with the 8 speed. However, I prefer to do all the shift controls myself. In my test drive, in manual mode, the shifts were really hard. Is there a way I can do a manual mode all the time but with the normal shift hardness?

I drove an M Sport/THP 228i with the Alcantara wheel (otherwise no options) and a loaded M235i which was very illuminating. I'm currently driving a Pontiac G8 GT and I wanted to move to something smaller and with a greater emphasis on handling than power, so the 228i seems like a good fit for me. Where I live you can't really open up a car as fast as the M235i unfortunately so my preferences for a fun car have been altered to fit my new town. I can afford either safely, but I do like to save money, so I would prefer to spend less if possible. I'm thinking I might pick up the 228i for the next year and a half, save my pennies, then jump into the M240i or perhaps M2 when those become available.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer this. I really do a lot of homework before I buy a car.

1) MSport on top of THP is all cosmetic, and not all for the good. You lose the front fog lamps for a different but not better front fascia. The steering wheel looks different, but loses the nice grained leather for (to me) cheaper looking and feeling smooth leather.

2) THP does not bring higher speed limiter, but Sportline and Msport do. One of those "lines" with THP is the way to go.

3) No. I don't have enhanced, and stream music from my iPhone.

4) Camera and beeps are useful, but beyond that seems a bit much.

5) Yes, you will lose heating, which I have come to love. I am also no fan of Alcantara, which is a synthetic fiber fabric and has more cleaning/maintenance requirements than leather. I wouldn't take that trade.

6) Too soon to know.

7 - 9) Don't know

I have a completely different view on the 228 than an earlier poster. I think the car is wonderful with a smooth engine with plenty of power. I'm not sure what alternative would be suggested in it's class, but from all I drove before choosing it (and also bypassing the CLA, 3 Series, 4 Series and M235i), this is the best balanced and most entertaining package from BMW or competitors, assuming it has the THP. If someone evaluated a non-THP 228i, I can understand coming away less enthusiastic. Keep in mind, I never go to any track and have no such interest.

[2yo]

Sportstick and I seem to agree on the answers we gave. You can track a 228i fine with the thp as long as you understand going in that it "only has 240hp" and is not the bigger engine. With that being said, I LOVED the 228i during my test drive and it sold me within a minute (I didn't tell my dealer that of course). More than enough power for daily use, light, roomier than I thought going in(though not particularly spacious), and a very well made and balanced car. I won't track the car and wanted a good mix of luxury and spirit as it will be my only car, so I went for the 228i without the thp. Spec it how you want it and make it yours, 228 or otherwise.

[bacampbe]

I've had a m235i convertible in the Dallas area for a week now. It's not a 228i, but I have a few new owner opinions:

1. Don't give up on one of the sport packages until you try out the sport seats. They are pretty nice and well reviewed.

2. The normal speed limiter is 135. The enhanced one is 155. In general the enhanced top speed limiter is tied to the tire choice. You only get it with the summer tires, even with the sport/m-sport packages, or on the M235i. I think the THP comes with the summer PSSs, so it _might_ include the higher limiter. OTOH, how often do you expect to exceed 135mph in Texas? ( unless you plan to track it)

3. You don't need enhanced bluetooth/USB to stream music, and you still get titles and control from iDrive (that part might require the tech package.) It does give you some additional "office" features, the prep-work for the snap in adapter which no one every buys, and on the 2015 convertible it upgrades the car's 3G radio to LTE. (I'm not sure if that is just the convertible or for all 2015 models.)

5. I think you would lose the heated steering wheel. You'd still have heated seats, but you can option that separately. Allegedly you also get headlight washers with the package. (I've got the cold weather package, but haven't figured out how the light washers work yet.)

6. When the F30s came out in 2012, (with basically the same engines), there seemed to be more forum complaints about the 335i than the 328i. That's just my impression with no research behind it, and you can't really infer much from forum complaints (and they've had a few years to work out any engine bugs on the other platforms.)

7. When the new models come out, there will be another new model on the horizon. If you worry too much about that, you will never buy anything.

8. I got about 4.5% off MSRP on a DFW area in-stock M235i convertible last week. That took some shopping around. But the convertible _just_ hit the dealerships, and the coupe has been out for while. You should be able to do better on the coupe, especially a 228i.

9. I don't find the shifts to be that hard, except maybe between 1-2 under hard acceleration. (OTOH, I come from a Miata with MT, so my baseline is probably different than yours.) You can still use the paddles in D, but the auto will take over again as soon as you stabilize your speed.

[Citizen M]

Originally Posted by den525

1. Don't own 228i, based on driving the car (as a loaner from BMW), the car is pretty bad. So don't see any reason to get any M performance pack or track handling pack. As you won't take THAT car to the track.

2. It's a non issue unless you want to break the law 24/7. Probably can be coded out.

3. M235i streams music wirelessly via bluetooth.

4. Not sure what others say about the parking assistance... Never thought I'd find it useful, as I think I'm a good parker myself, but it's a pretty good system. I've used it at every opportunity and it has worked 100% of the time.

5. Yes

6. No, car is not even a year old. BUT you can research on the 1 series. Basically the same cars.

7. You'll forever be waiting if that's the case. There will always be something better and newer in the future, even same model each year there's an updated version. Rumours are name changes to 2 series. But overall, its the same car just an update. M2 will be out in 2 years.

8. NA

9. You'll get used to it.

As mentioned before 240 and 235 is just a name change... no point jumping from a 228 to a 240 in a year's time.

228 is a disappointment for me, pretty awful car for the price. M2 will be a great car... but if you said you can't even drive a M235i fast in texas, why get a M2?

But at the end of the day, it's your decision on which car to pick, I switch cars every 2 years or so. So I always look for what's the best car in the type of car you're looking for. I think the M235i is the best car in it's category at the moment. But is the 228i the best car in it's category? A clear no. There are so many better cars in the 2l engine category, 228i won't even come close to my top 5 or 10.

Thanks everyone for the responses, I'll get to more detailed replies as soon as I have some free time, but I was most curious about why the 228i was considered pretty bad? I drove the 228i M Sport w/t THP and a loaded m235i back to back and both were really quite good so I'd like to know if he meant from a reliability perspective or what.

[caycep]

to den25, what didn't you like about the 228i?

[2yo]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

Thanks everyone for the responses, I'll get to more detailed replies as soon as I have some free time, but I was most curious about why the 228i was considered pretty bad? I drove the 228i M Sport w/t THP and a loaded m235i back to back and both were really quite good so I'd like to know if he meant from a reliability perspective or what.

Reliability is yet to be determined, but I do not believe there is a reliability difference between the two engines and since the cars are both only one year out, reliability is still hard to determine. I am assuming they mean it is pretty bad because it is not as fast and doesn't come standard with the sport driving goodies like the m235i? Or maybe they like audi's 2.0 liter engine better? Maybe it wasn't smooth enough for them. But you know what happens when you assume right? I find it wonderful and am completely happy with my 228i choice. It is not the sport machine that the m235i is standard, but you can make it what you want. To each their own opinion and all opinions are just as valid.

[bacampbe]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

Thanks everyone for the responses, I'll get to more detailed replies as soon as I have some free time, but I was most curious about why the 228i was considered pretty bad? I drove the 228i M Sport w/t THP and a loaded m235i back to back and both were really quite good so I'd like to know if he meant from a reliability perspective or what.

That was one person's opinion. People have different needs and expectations:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1076073

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Citizen M

Thanks everyone for the responses, I'll get to more detailed replies as soon as I have some free time, but I was most curious about why the 228i was considered pretty bad? I drove the 228i M Sport w/t THP and a loaded m235i back to back and both were really quite good so I'd like to know if he meant from a reliability perspective or what.

Yes, one quite rare opinion, although we respect everyone's personal assessment. However, this article represents the more frequent view:

http://jalopnik.com/the-bmw-228i-is-...buy-1662847106

[Citizen M]

Yeah it's hard for me to understand. The 228i is a high 13 second car, i.e., very quick. You won't be taking out Mustang GTs or Camaro SSes, but then I'm not a race car driver.

[mfourn20]

I have a 228i with the m sport package, no THP. The car is NOT BAD. This is going to start a war here, and excuse the language but that statement is BS.

I drove a no line 228i, and I will agree it's not sporty in that configuration but it's not bad..it's more of an expensive wives car. Throw just an M-sport package on it and it completely changes the car.

Will I track my M-Sport 228i. ABSOLUTELY, and many do.

My 228i is built the following way:

Estorial Blue
M-Sport
Premium Package
Tech Package
HK Sound
Cold weather package
Manual Tran
Clear Bra

Had I had time to order the car, and not taken the one on the lot I would have gotten and saved some money:

Estoril Blue
M-Sport
Track Package
Manual Tran
Lighting Package

Now that I have the cold weather package, and live in Rhode Island I would get the cold weather again. I've never had a car with heated seats before (my wife does) I've always been a HTFU type of guy, but now that I have the cold weather pack, I'd do it again.

[tccox]

Trust me coming from a 128, having been driving for 45 years, multiple cars, motorcycles , the 228 is most certainly not a "bad" car, it's the finest car I've ever owned or driven. 2014 228, msport, manual transmission. A totally awesome car. Love it more every day. Now mines a pretty basic car, Msport package, HK and lighting package. The lighting package is the only absolute must.

[dtcoff]

As a fellow Australian as den525, I'd say that he is using the prices that we pay here as a guide to the competition in the market that the 228i plays in.

I would never say it's a bad car, it's a very good car, just the price downunder would be difficult to justify against say a Golf GTi.

[xtlwulf]

Originally Posted by dtcoff

As a fellow Australian as den525, I'd say that he is using the prices that we pay here as a guide to the competition in the market that the 228i plays in.

I would never say it's a bad car, it's a very good car, just the price downunder would be difficult to justify against say a Golf GTi.

Yea i think this is what he meant because if the prices come to play, I'd some what agree.

There are many cars within the same price range that are faster/handling/etc

However that doesn't mean that the 228i is a bad car.

I test drove a loaded M235i AWD and a 228i M sport Line AWD back to back.

I drove the 228i first, and immediately fell in love. This was the BMW I remembered, or rather closest to it. Had a e39 and e90 before.

I then drove the M235i just to see how "fast" the car was. Although the car was extremely fast, living in NY with all the pot holes and cops, I think the 228i is fast and nimble enough.

If I truly craved the speed rush, I always have my motorcycle.

I just finished my 2013 BMW 335i AWD lease, and I never used the power to fullest. The only thing I guess it did was boost my ego and pride that I had a higher 3 series model.

Yes ever one is different and has different tastes. Some would think the 228i engine is fast enough, and others would want something more, the M235. Either way, both cars are great IMO.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by dtcoff

As a fellow Australian as den525, I'd say that he is using the prices that we pay here as a guide to the competition in the market that the 228i plays in.

I would never say it's a bad car, it's a very good car, just the price downunder would be difficult to justify against say a Golf GTi.

Perhaps part of this is how cars are classified and cross-considered in the two countries. In the US, BMW's brand premiumness and being a vehicle with a trunk places it in a different segment than the performance version of an economy hatchback, such as a Golf. I sense that the engine is a more significant basis for comparison in your market, while bodystyle and brand position may be more dominant here?

Some on the forums have said that they would also consider a GTI, but for most the degree of the relationship between VW and BMW is more likely similar to Chevrolet and Cadillac. For $6,000 difference in base retail price ($26k GTI to $32k 228i), the step in brand stature from economy brand to luxury brand is very reasonable, particularly as it includes the desirable move from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive.

[dtcoff]

228i here in Australia is AU$70k list. We get a few more options as standard spec here compared to US. Same money gets an Audi S3 sedan. Golf GTi is under $50k, even the R is under $60k.