[Inline_Six]

A LOT of M235i review videos on YouTube say that its chassis is balanced. Please tell me how you would interpret "balanced chassis". And, feel free to share any other thoughts or observations you have about the M235i's handling, steering, etc.

Thanks very much !!!

[overcoil]

It can mean literally; the full weight of the car is split nearly evenly between front and rear axles/tires or a descriptive that at high cornering speeds the tires break away in an even controllable yaw - that steering and suspension provide very intuitive controllable performance.

[Cyberdemon]

When driving a vehicle at the limit it weight distribution becomes very obvious. It's one of the reasons tail heavy older 911's were very hard to control at the limit, the weight would make the car want to rotate around.

Likewise a very front heavy car will have more tendency to plow or understeer, making turning into corners more difficult.

Since all BMW's are much better at having near perfect front/rear weight distribution the car is neutral/balanced. It doesn't exhibit either of those characteristics which is why it's such a delightful thing to throw around corners.

[overcoil]

For the second part of your question;
I'm running the PSS summer tires throughout the winter. When the rear tires slip laterally on ice - you feel it immediately in the steering wheel. It's hard to describe but it's as though the steering gets light. And it's very informative and gives confidence and control. And it's one of the factors that make it a great daily-driver.

In warmer temps and high-speed cornering I think the car is tricky.
The cars narrow track/width and upright seating and cars body upright design means you really need confidence in the mechanical grip of the tires. The car is fast and even on the highway you can find yourself entering what seems like a sweeping broad bend at supercar speeds. And the car pushes to the outside of the curve with slight under-steer / front of car running wide. I think it's the narrow track and weight up high that can make those situations heart dropping. But I think it the safe way to set up a car. And why the M2 with a wider track could be a little more confidence inspiring in those same turns.

In tight turns the M235 is amazing, fast with large amounts of grip and great power to keep up or increase speed.

I don't have enough or wish to thrash the car to comment on high-speed or repeated braking.

[Xiaoxi]

[BMW269]

50/50 is marketing BS. Rear biased is better. Anyway for security reasons, cars tend to slightly understeer, rather than oversteer.

[overcoil]

So the question is can a Ferrari 458 or Porsche GT3 never be a 'well--balanced' car?
If you can get the center of gravity low enough can you design a well balanced car.
Porsche makes a well balanced car in the 911 by having a pivot point near the front axle line, 458 with pivot point near center and Miata and M235 with pivot point near center of gearbox. So maybe things like power to grip ratio mean well balanced.
Really good question from original poster.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Levi

50/50 is marketing BS. Rear biased is better. Anyway for security reasons, cars tend to slightly understeer, rather than oversteer.

I was typing my response while you answered. Didn't intend to repeat of expand on your response.

[gaijin]

I've owned some 911s (air-cooled) in the past. One of was a 930 Turbo which I drove for over 15 years. One of the most significant handling mod I did to that car was going wide as in 315's at the rear from the OE 225s. That was a huge jump that necessitated custom made wheels to fit correctly. It was still a handful at top end but those wider rear wheels helped tremendously. Of course, I eventually had other suspension upgrades as available technology came to light.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

So the question is can a Ferrari 458 or Porsche GT3 never be a 'well--balanced' car?
If you can get the center of gravity low enough can you design a well balanced car.
Porsche makes a well balanced car in the 911 by having a pivot point near the front axle line, 458 with pivot point near center and Miata and M235 with pivot point near center of gearbox. So maybe things like power to grip ratio mean well balanced.
Really good question from original poster.

From what I understand, "well balanced" has less to do with weight balance, and much more to do with front v. rear grip.

As mentioned, most cars (for safety reasons) are set up to "push" or understeer, as it is easy (easier) for most drivers to handle their car going off the road because they came in too quick.

Some other cars (old Porsches, some mid-engined cars) have oversteer/snap-oversteer (the car is "loose") where the back end of the car breaks loose around a turn, and you spin out. This is a little harder to deal with, especially if you haven't been taught (opp lock, etc.)

When they speak about the M235i (or any other good BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, whatever) having a "balanced" chassis, I think they mean that the car is "neutral" i.e. it doesn't really over or understeer, it just has a limit of grip generally.

I had camber plates put in on Monday, and the alignment specialist asked me how I wanted my car set up -- did I want to keep "grabbing the tail" (i.e. oversteer) or something else? I told him I wanted balanced i.e. neural steering (the front has about the same amount of lateral grip as the rear).

So I think that is what people talk about when they say "balanced," but I could be wrong.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Levi

50/50 is marketing BS. Rear biased is better. Anyway for security reasons, cars tend to slightly understeer, rather than oversteer.

I don't disagree, but in layman's terms understanding the basics of handling it's a good place to start the explanation.

If you want to break out the engineers and track rats then we can start talking about polar moment of intertia and the benefits of shifting the weight around due to the fact that a car behaving dynamically is different than one sitting on a teeter totter (like the Miata ad).

Either way, in very general terms chassis balance has to do with a car neither wanting to understeer or oversteer. The closer the car is to "Balanced" means you can add throttle to create oversteer in a controlled manner, vs snap oversteer which happens suddenly as the heavy mass of a rear engine car wants to overtake the front end. Porsche has done a great job of sorting that out with years of refinement in suspension, aero, and computer wizardry to build a car that can take advantage of it's extra traction and still handle phenomenally.

With that said, there are non-super cars like the Miata, BRZ, or the 2 series which focus on the front-rear configuration and create very capable, fun cars that are easy to learn to drive fast because they have very predictable handling characteristics at and beyond the limit of grip.

Theres a reason race teams pay brilliant engineers lots of money to sort all this out.

[ska///235i]

Chassis is basically the frame of the car. A well balance chassis will need good weight distribution. Good axle placements and a wider track is also good balance. So lets say if the engine is placed infront of the front axle, thats nose heavy. Well balanced cars uaually have the engine sit 60-90% behind the front axle.

Bmw have their engines sit around 65-75% behind the axle. RWD with some items placed in the trunk area (battery, hardware, etc)

[MrBucket]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

When driving a vehicle at the limit it weight distribution becomes very obvious. It's one of the reasons tail heavy older 911's were very hard to control at the limit, the weight would make the car want to rotate around.

Likewise a very front heavy car will have more tendency to plow or understeer, making turning into corners more difficult.

Since all BMW's are much better at having near perfect front/rear weight distribution the car is neutral/balanced. It doesn't exhibit either of those characteristics which is why it's such a delightful thing to throw around corners.

Much of that also has to do with suspension geometry, its not just weight balance. Modern 911 still are heavily rear biased in weight yet they have been able to engineer out the nasty traits of the early cars. Its not gone entirely, the front end of a 911 feels a little light in comparison to a Boxster/Cayman on the track, but its more of just a personal preference thing at this point than a deficiency.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

When they speak about the M235i (or any other good BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, whatever) having a "balanced" chassis, I think they mean that the car is "neutral" i.e. it doesn't really over or understeer, it just has a limit of grip generally.

Exactly.

[Inline_Six]

Excellent discussion, fellas ! Thanks for participating and sharing great information !