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      01-28-2015, 08:19 PM   #1
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KW HAS, H&R Sport or Eibach Springs?

I need everyone's help deciding which springs to get. The choices are the KW HAS kit, the H&R Sport and Eibach. I have the adaptive suspension and would like to keep the ride as OEM as possible as this is my DD and I don't plan on tracking the car. I am also not looking for an aggressive drop since there are plenty of speed bumps in my community and I don't want to deal with scraping.

From what I have read thus far from those who have tested both sets of springs, it seems that the H&R is a bit bumpier than the KWs. However, there seems to be plenty of people who appear more than happy with the H&R. I am leaning towards getting the KW but are the KWs worth the premium if I just plan to set the height just once? Is the ride that much different between the three brands? Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated.
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      01-28-2015, 09:58 PM   #2
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I am facing the same dilemma as you, I need to pick between these 3 options. I also want to retain the functionality of the adaptive suspension. My M4 is my daily driver that I also use in winter, so ride height is a concern to me.

H&R provides an optimal drop in terms of looks, is inexpensive. I am concerned it is too low for winter driving.

Eibach less of a drop means less compromise for the winter, also inexpensive.

K&W HAS ability to adjust ride height (I can lower the car in the spring and raise it in the fall), ability to corner balance the car for optimal handling, more expensive option
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      01-28-2015, 10:55 PM   #3
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H&R. never tried the HAS kit.
Eibach doesn't look promising. you are lowering the car, try to do it once before this platform is fully developed in a couple of years.
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      01-28-2015, 11:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
I need everyone's help deciding which springs to get. The choices are the KW HAS kit, the H&R Sport and Eibach. I have the adaptive suspension and would like to keep the ride as OEM as possible as this is my DD and I don't plan on tracking the car. I am also not looking for an aggressive drop since there are plenty of speed bumps in my community and I don't want to deal with scraping.

From what I have read thus far from those who have tested both sets of springs, it seems that the H&R is a bit bumpier than the KWs. However, there seems to be plenty of people who appear more than happy with the H&R. I am leaning towards getting the KW but are the KWs worth the premium if I just plan to set the height just once? Is the ride that much different between the three brands? Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated.
Hey man,

I too spent quite a while going back and forth on this same issue. I had installed H&R race springs on my 2005 330i ZHP back in 2005. The car had a beautiful and very aggressive drop. Unfortunately, as time went on, the springs started to prove a TERRIBLE idea for long term ownership/DD usage of the car.

I just decided to pull the trigger and order the KW HAS kit for my 2015 M4 yesterday. I'll be having it installed sometime next week. I decided to go with this set up after reading countless posts on these forums, instagram and talking to the good guys at IND.

Everyone seems to love the fact that they replace a lot more of the suspension component versus just swapping out the springs and not having to sell your ass for coilovers. KW also releases their products once they've tested the hell out of it, which makes me sleep better at night. Ilias at IND has spent some extensive time with me on the phone discussing all of the doubts I had about lowering my car again and he convinced me based on ALL of these points. I also ordered Macht Schnell spacers to keep the OEM+ look on my car. I'm SUPER EXCITED about eliminating this God-awful wheel gap on this car... stay tuned for my review!!

ORDER THE KW kit!

Good luck, hope this helps

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      01-29-2015, 10:21 AM   #5
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I've had h&r and now the kw has. Overall the kw rides more compliant and I wanted to set them up with a less aggressive drop then the h&r sports. The h&r's were fine and everything is subjective, but for me personally the kw's are worth the premium. With that said, I probably would have taken a chance with the eibachs first if they had been out, because their drop is about the same as how I'm running my car.
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      01-29-2015, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROCHOP View Post
Hey man,

I too spent quite a while going back and forth on this same issue. I had installed H&R race springs on my 2005 330i ZHP back in 2005. The car had a beautiful and very aggressive drop. Unfortunately, as time went on, the springs started to prove a TERRIBLE idea for long term ownership/DD usage of the car.



Everyone seems to love the fact that they replace a lot more of the suspension component versus just swapping out the springs and not having to sell your ass for coilovers. KW also releases their products once they've tested the hell out of it, which makes me sleep better at night. Ilias at IND has spent some extensive time with me on the phone discussing all of the doubts I had about lowering my car again and he convinced me based on ALL of these points. I also ordered Macht Schnell spacers to keep the OEM+ look on my car. I'm SUPER EXCITED about eliminating this God-awful wheel gap on this car... stay tuned for my review!!

ORDER THE KW kit!

Good luck, hope this helps

-Brochop
what extra parts? its exactly the same as any other spring kit except for the fact that it has an adjustable perch associated with it.

this is no different than any other kit, minus the height adjustability. they also

-don't publish the spring rates
-use progressive spring rates vs linear for stock, making for overly soft and poor body control / response
-allow the car to be lowered too much and cause too much pre compression at static height

I wouldn't run any progressive spring kit on this car, and unless you want to drop the car really low or change the ride height on a regular basis, I don't see the benefit of these.

personally, if you want to run springs I would wait for swift who will run a moderate drop so to not completely eliminate the suspension travel and effective range of the dampers and use linear springs.
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      01-29-2015, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
I need everyone's help deciding which springs to get. The choices are the KW HAS kit, the H&R Sport and Eibach. I have the adaptive suspension and would like to keep the ride as OEM as possible as this is my DD and I don't plan on tracking the car. I am also not looking for an aggressive drop since there are plenty of speed bumps in my community and I don't want to deal with scraping.

From what I have read thus far from those who have tested both sets of springs, it seems that the H&R is a bit bumpier than the KWs. However, there seems to be plenty of people who appear more than happy with the H&R. I am leaning towards getting the KW but are the KWs worth the premium if I just plan to set the height just once? Is the ride that much different between the three brands? Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated.



ON THE SAME BOAT BROTHA. AWAITING DELIVERY OF MY M4 AND I STILL CANNOT MAKE UP MY MIND FOR SUSPENSION AND WHEELS. LEANING TOWARDS KW THOUGH SINCE I HAVE THE V3'S ON MY E46 M3 AND I FEEL THAT THE QUALITY OF KW CANNOT BE MATCHED
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      01-29-2015, 11:50 AM   #8
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I had the HAS on my S4 and loved them. I'm trying to hold myself back from going crazy on this car, including going super low. I'm leaning towards eibach and maybe swift if they have a similar drop. I basically want the car to be more or less the same height as the stock rears.
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      01-29-2015, 02:26 PM   #9
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I think I'm in a similar boat. I want a very small drop, unlike most that slam the car. I don't want to compromise ride functionality, but I'm fine with a slightly more stiff ride. To me, even the H&R Sport was too much drop. This my DD after all, and I've been a little worried seeing the "pulling to the right" and "something hit the undercarriage" posts.

Personally, I'm waiting on the Eibach or Swift springs. If nothing else was coming down the pipe, I'd do the HAS. But even with the HAS, I think most people set it and forget it; they don't constantly adjust the height. They may at first to determine the drop/comfort they like, but then don't really mess with it afterwards. Plus, I like the fact that Swift looks to have fixed rates, like OEM.

Do the Eibach's have fixed or progressive rates?
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      01-29-2015, 02:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
what extra parts? its exactly the same as any other spring kit except for the fact that it has an adjustable perch associated with it.

this is no different than any other kit, minus the height adjustability. they also

-don't publish the spring rates
-use progressive spring rates vs linear for stock, making for overly soft and poor body control / response
-allow the car to be lowered too much and cause too much pre compression at static height

I wouldn't run any progressive spring kit on this car, and unless you want to drop the car really low or change the ride height on a regular basis, I don't see the benefit of these.

personally, if you want to run springs I would wait for swift who will run a moderate drop so to not completely eliminate the suspension travel and effective range of the dampers and use linear springs.
First, thanks everyone for your input. I was just about to pull the trigger and order the KW HAS kit until I read this post. Now I am on the fence again. I never even considered what the impact of using progressive springs vs linear springs would be on the car. What are the benefits of progessive springs? I assume there are some or else KW would not have gone that route for our cars. Also, wouldn't the reason why KW has not published the spring rates is because it varies (progressive) and is not static (linear)?

On a positive note, I have now ruled out H&R...but now have added Swift into the mix.
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      01-29-2015, 03:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
First, thanks everyone for your input. I was just about to pull the trigger and order the KW HAS kit until I read this post. Now I am on the fence again. I never even considered what the impact of using progressive springs vs linear springs would be on the car. What are the benefits of progessive springs? I assume there are some or else KW would not have gone that route for our cars. Also, wouldn't the reason why KW has not published the spring rates is because it varies (progressive) and is not static (linear)?

On a positive note, I have now ruled out H&R...but now have added Swift into the mix.
I would read the following thread to learn more about swift and the benefits of linear springs, and specifically the last post which contains an email response I got from swift

Progressive springs are a bandaid fix to soften up the ride from lowering the car too much and overloading the shocks since they do not work in an efficient range when lowered too much. swift has a, still not ideal, much better solution using linear springs.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1054041&page=5
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      01-29-2015, 06:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I would read the following thread to learn more about swift and the benefits of linear springs, and specifically the last post which contains an email response I got from swift

Progressive springs are a bandaid fix to soften up the ride from lowering the car too much and overloading the shocks since they do not work in an efficient range when lowered too much. swift has a, still not ideal, much better solution using linear springs.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1054041&page=5
Not sure why you are saying variable rate springs are not as good. IMO, if they are well tuned, they can be better than constant rate springs.

For instance, if you increase the spring rate, when travelling over small road ondulations (small wheel travel), the rate of the springs will overpower the shocks and will provide a bouncy ride. With variable rate springs you can maintain the spring rate close to stock in that range and therefore ensure the dampers are well matched to the springs. When under load, the rate of the spring progressively increases to match the stock force and control wheel travel to prevent bottoming the suspension.

Any change in spring rate will alter the optimal stock spring/damper balance. But IMO, variable rate spring can bring an interresting compromise.

EDIT: i just had a look at the Swift thread, as far as I can tell, their springs are also variable rate...
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      01-29-2015, 07:04 PM   #13
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      01-29-2015, 07:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not sure why you are saying variable rate springs are not as good. IMO, if they are well tuned, they can be better than constant rate springs.

For instance, if you increase the spring rate, when travelling over small road ondulations (small wheel travel), the rate of the springs will overpower the shocks and will provide a bouncy ride. With variable rate springs you can maintain the spring rate close to stock in that range and therefore ensure the dampers are well matched to the springs. When under load, the rate of the spring progressively increases to match the stock force and control wheel travel to prevent bottoming the suspension.

Any change in spring rate will alter the optimal stock spring/damper balance. But IMO, variable rate spring can bring an interresting compromise.

EDIT: i just had a look at the Swift thread, as far as I can tell, their springs are also variable rate...
Swift are linear

I respectfully disagree. Progressive springs are overly soft to try to generate a good ride. However, when you lower the car on stock dampers this is a bad thing because the progressive springs cause too much suspension gravel which causes the dampers to work out of range and bottom out.

Linear springs are more ideal because an increased rate can be used to keep the dampers in a specific range and not bottom out, although the ride will be firmer, but not bouncy and out of control

This link explains in more detail

http://automotivethinker.com/suspension/linear-vs-progressive-rate-springs/

Sorry for the brief post I'm on my phone
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      01-29-2015, 08:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Swift are linear

I respectfully disagree. Progressive springs are overly soft to try to generate a good ride. However, when you lower the car on stock dampers this is a bad thing because the progressive springs cause too much suspension gravel which causes the dampers to work out of range and bottom out.

Linear springs are more ideal because an increased rate can be used to keep the dampers in a specific range and not bottom out, although the ride will be firmer, but not bouncy and out of control

This link explains in more detail

http://automotivethinker.com/suspens...-rate-springs/

Sorry for the brief post I'm on my phone
If a variable rate spring is well calibrated, it will not be overly soft.

I am sorry, but those do look like variable rate springs...
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      01-29-2015, 09:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
If a variable rate spring is well calibrated, it will not be overly soft.

I am sorry, but those do look like variable rate springs...
Agree in that pic the tears look progressive to my eye, fronts look linear with an integrated helper spring. Per swift the actual product is linear and they posted official spring rates.

I don't believe progressive work well in a car designed for linear springs. You cannot change the spring rate to that precise a degree, and when the car is on undulating roads the springs will be compressing and decompressing at rates that do not mesh with the oem dampers. Too soft at the top end, overextending the dampers. And again, I cannot over stress the idea of running a progressive rate on a shock designed for a linear spring does not make much sense in terms of a performance application.

Also, kw has is designed around the idea that it has adjustable perches. Meaning the level of drop can be varied by an inch or so. The progressive springs cannot be well calibrated for all different ride heights, that makes no sense. Only one ride height could be idealized with the chosen rate (which isn't even ideal in the first place imo). So you have a random progressive spring rate yet the car can be lowered anywhere from half an inch to an inch and a half? How could you possibly have ideal spring rates for all those ranges? You can't.

Last edited by Black Gold; 01-29-2015 at 09:09 PM..
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      01-29-2015, 09:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I don't believe progressive work well in a car designed for linear springs. You cannot change the spring rate to that precise a degree, and when the car is on undulating roads the springs will be compressing and decompressing at rates that do not mesh with the oem dampers. Too soft at the top end, overextending the dampers. And again, I cannot over stress the idea of running a progressive rate on a shock designed for a linear spring does not make much sense in terms of a performance application.
I don't agree here. As I posted previously, changing spring rates will be a compromise regardless. A different but fixed spring rate will be a compromise, a variable rate will simply be a different compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Also, kw has is designed around the idea that it has adjustable perches. Meaning the level of drop can be varied by an inch or so. The progressive springs cannot be well calibrated for all different ride heights, that makes no sense. Only one ride height could be idealized with the chosen rate. So you have a random progressive spring rate yet the car can be lowered anywhere from half an inch to an inch and a half? How could you possibly have ideal spring rates for all those ranges? You can't.
This I fully agree with

My interest with the HAS is the ability to change the height depending on the season, but I do understand that I will compromise performance for that adjustability. I have not made my final choice yet and simply remaining stock is still an option for me.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-29-2015 at 09:20 PM..
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      01-29-2015, 09:20 PM   #18
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It is a compromise, neither will ride like stock. Anyone who says they will is either delusional or a liar.

The difference is that the body control will be better on linear springs, with a firmer ride. A downside is it will be easier for the car to bottom out as the car sits lower and the shocks are already pre compressed eating up some of the available travel at static height. Same issue for any lowering spring. In comparison to linear, The progressive will not be as firm, but will not be as well controlled.

Control over undulations is more important than being overly firm for performance applications and my personal preference

The best option to lower the car is the zcp shocks and springs. But they aren't out yet. I'll try swift but if they suck, I'll pull them out and wait for zcp.

I've already played the progressive spring game and the degradation in performance and body control isn't woeth it to me. :twocents:
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      01-29-2015, 09:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
It is a compromise, neither will ride like stock. Anyone who says they will is either delusional or a liar.

The difference is that the body control will be better on linear springs, with a firmer ride. A downside is it will be easier for the car to bottom out as the car sits lower and the shocks are already pre compressed eating up some of the available travel at static height. Same issue for any lowering spring. In comparison to linear, The progressive will not be as firm, but will not be as well controlled.

Control over undulations is more important than being overly firm for performance applications and my personal preference

The best option to lower the car is the zcp shocks and springs. But they aren't out yet. I'll try swift but if they suck, I'll pull them out and wait for zcp.

I've already played the progressive spring game and the degradation in performance and body control isn't woeth it to me. :twocents:
You assume that the variable springs are tuned softer than stock when not under load (just with the static weight of the car). If they are tuned so that they match the stock spring rate in static condition, they will be perfectly matched to the stock dampers in normal (straight) driving. The compromise happens when the car pitches or rolls, as the spring compress their rate increases and exceeds the damping rate, that is where their compromise is reached.

With stiffer fixed springs, the compromise is present under normal driving because the higher spring rate exceeds the damping rate and the car can get bouncy while driving straight.

I also played with variable rate springs on my time attack GTI and was able to achieve an excellent suspension setup, albeit I did also play with the dampers (Bilstein rules ).

Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-29-2015 at 09:44 PM..
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      01-30-2015, 02:52 AM   #20
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I also facing the same dilemma.
But I think that I will go with the Eibach ones, because I ride my car at winter and the H&R drop look too much for me.
I've got the KW DDC on my 1M and never adjusted it, so I think that KW in my way will be loose of money and that's it.
The Eibach drop looks perfect for me, just makes the front gap a little lower and looks like the car should be like this from the factory.
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      01-30-2015, 03:26 PM   #21
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I went with KW HAS after having Eibach on my other cars, I dont know if I will adjusting the height but knowing I can is awesome, I will probably ride a little higher during the winter. They feel great, the car is firm and planted but the ride is not overly harsh. I also love that fact that its not just a set of springs, they replace a number of the components that the springs mount into, to me that is a complete kit.
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      01-30-2015, 04:11 PM   #22
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Springs

Just talked to Dinan ... They are coming out with a set in the next 60 - 90 days. Not much information relayed ...
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