01-16-2015, 07:58 AM | #1 |
Brigadier General
2051
Rep 3,714
Posts |
F80 M3 Track Review
Posting this up a bit late but wanted to give my thoughts on the F80 M3 on track straight off the showroom floor. My business partner bought a 2015 M3 with DCT, steel brakes and 19" wheels. He broke it in, changed the oil, flushed the brake fluid with high temp stuff and we took it to a local track we both instruct at for a track day (Eagles Canyon Raceway)
First off...the car is FAST, much faster stock for stock than an E90/E92 M3. The handling is very neutral and feels similar to the E9X generation but the power delivery is hands down better. It pulls much harder out of the corners and still screams on the top end. On the longest straight it's about 3-5 mph faster than the E9x series. A few observations on where the car needs improvements for serious track duty: 1. Brakes- I'm sure most of you already know but the stock pads are not up to par. The pads transferred so much pad material in a few sessions that the car was nearly undriveable on the street afterwards. There was pad material melted/smeared all over the rotors. We were driving the car pretty hard in the instructor run group, I don't think this would be a problem at an intermediate level. 2. Suspension- The car felt great all day, neutral handling, soaked up the bumps great but it was floaty under hard braking. The rear end wanted to step out and you had to fight to keep it in a straight line. Also the car needs a ton more front camber. We wore down a good bit of the outside shoulder on the factory MPSS tires. 3. Not really a point for improvement but if you're an intermediate or higher level driver you'll need to turn off the traction control all the way. It is VERY intrusive even in M mode, any gas coming out of the corners and it will cut power very soon. I will say if you turn it off all the way you really need to modulate the throttle or you will get a good amount of wheel spin. Overall the car did great, no limp mode, no overheating, it was about 70 degrees out. I ran a lap time of 2:02.8 which is screaming fast. To give you some reference on the same day a good local driver ran the new 2015 Mustang GT V8 at a 2:06.1 and a 2012 Mustang Boss 302 at 2:10. My 2010 GT-R ran a best lap of 1:59 on MPSS tires as well and I ran a best time of 1:59.X on the same day in my business partner's E92 M3 track car (18X11, GT4 aero, AST shocks) on somewhat worn out Hoosiers. Right before the Hoosiers were corded on the E92 I was able to keep up in the F80 which is pretty impressive for an off the showroom floor car on street tires. The gopro died at the end of the day so I didn't get any track footage of the F80 but here are some pics of the F80, E92 and my wife's E90. Last edited by CosmosMpower; 01-16-2015 at 08:17 AM.. |
01-16-2015, 08:15 AM | #2 |
General
21115
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Great review.
Your comments mirror my own, . |
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2015, 08:26 PM | #5 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1231
Rep 1,789
Posts
Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2019 Ford Raptor [0.00]
2016 Porsche 991.1 ... [0.00] 1987 Chevy Camaro I ... [0.00] 1972 Chevy Corvette [0.00] 1999 BMW M3 race car [0.00] |
1) Yes agree brakes are the weak point still. I'm using Carbotech xp12/10 and SRF fluid and it has helped a lot but I'm still getting a bit of a soft pedal at 15 minutes into a hard driven session. Yes, I've had a couple of pucker moments with the suspension on hard braking from high speeds. Felt like the car was skating/wiggling around a bit, very unnerving braking from 140mph. I'm fairly certain a good CoillOver system would eliminate this.
2) Definately needs more camber. I'm getting by with R888 for now which have a much stiffer sidewall. 3) All nannies off only way to drive fast with the car. MDM is rubbish. Sometimes I use Sport instead of Sport+ so its a little tamer to modulate throttle coming out of turns. Thanks for the review!
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352 Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889 |
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2015, 08:37 PM | #6 |
Major General
1903
Rep 5,678
Posts |
Great review. Makes me long for summer and track days. I hate winter
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 |
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 05:17 AM | #7 | |
Second Lieutenant
82
Rep 280
Posts |
Quote:
Sorry for going slightly off-topic. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 08:12 AM | #9 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
1231
Rep 1,789
Posts
Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2019 Ford Raptor [0.00]
2016 Porsche 991.1 ... [0.00] 1987 Chevy Camaro I ... [0.00] 1972 Chevy Corvette [0.00] 1999 BMW M3 race car [0.00] |
Quote:
Trail braking seems fine in the F8x though, just wouldn't do it until slowed down quite a bit from 135mph.
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352 Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 11:36 AM | #11 | ||
Enjoying driving
388
Rep 1,169
Posts |
Quote:
Again as MaynardZed is mentioning, how you apply and release the brakes is key to stability. Smashing the brake pedal at first application creates more instability, hence a rapid but gradual increase of pressure is the proper technique for instances that require you to shed 100+ mph to be able to take a slow speed turn, such as the one at Summit Point front straight going into T1. Quote:
CosmosMpower , thank you for the notes, quite helpful. |
||
Appreciate
1
|
01-17-2015, 03:54 PM | #12 | |
General
21115
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
A squirely back-end can be attributed to how the rear suspension geometry changes with load. If the rear suspension is tuned to increase toe-in under load (which is often the case to bring stability under cornering), then hard braking results in increased toe-out when the car pitches forward. Combined with the weight transfer off the rear axle, the rear of the car becomes very darty. This is where stiffer springs help. By reducing how much the car pitches forward, they help reducing the change of toe of the rear axle. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 07:16 PM | #13 |
Enjoying driving
388
Rep 1,169
Posts |
The pitch does not happen by itself, right? Something pushes the front of the car down more than something pushing the rear down
With the extended position of the rear 'multilink' rear geometry, the effect is toe-out; how much depends on how much the suspension is extended upwards. So, if front spring rates are higher, there will be less pitch forward and less toe-out in the rear under braking. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 09:15 PM | #14 |
Major General
1570
Rep 8,075
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
The E90 was the same way under heavy braking. I think it's a combination of the rear suspension design, weak rear brakes, and a slow locking diff.
The E36/46 used a semi? trailing arm design which toes out under squat. So you could hammer the brakes and the rear end will be stable. As mentioned, the E9X (and I would guess the F8X) uses a multi link rear so it toes in under squat. Does the F8X use the same viscolock Gkn LSD unit? My E46 and E90 are slow to lockup. You'll feel it once you drive a clutch LSD. If it is a slow locking viscolock then the diff could also be contributing the squirrely rear. For me, a BBK eliminated and rear end sway under heavy braking on my E90.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
Appreciate
0
|
01-17-2015, 10:09 PM | #15 | |
Enjoying driving
388
Rep 1,169
Posts |
Quote:
Also, I came across this very interesting thread in the 1M forums about the behavior of its ABS unit, I do not know if the ABS in that car is similar to the F8x or not, but it was very informative: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ght=cbc&page=1 Apparently there is another electronic module besides the ABS called CBC or Cornering Brake Control, which kind of reads like Porsche's torque vectoring. I wonder if they use a similar unit in the F8x as well. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-18-2015, 06:34 AM | #16 | ||
General
21115
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
Quote:
BTW, there was nothing wrong in your original post. I just wanted to bring precision about the impact of suspension geometry and that spring rates don't change weight transfer a Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-18-2015 at 09:21 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
01-18-2015, 06:39 AM | #17 | |
General
21115
Rep 20,741
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
One of the Ti-Jean videos also shows how intrusive MDM (Euro-MDM here) actually is even on the E9X platform, which is quite revealing. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=Ti-jean |
|
Appreciate
1
|
01-18-2015, 11:07 AM | #18 | |
Second Lieutenant
82
Rep 280
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-18-2015, 12:35 PM | #19 | |
Enjoying driving
388
Rep 1,169
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-19-2015, 08:45 AM | #20 | |
Brigadier General
2051
Rep 3,714
Posts |
Quote:
I didn't experience the rear dancing around in the E90 M3 even on full race slicks, it's much more pronounced in the F80. I do know that on the GT3's when the LSD wears out you get a really bad wandering rear end under hard braking. Last edited by CosmosMpower; 01-19-2015 at 08:51 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2015, 09:19 AM | #21 | |
Captain
61
Rep 776
Posts |
Quote:
Did the car have the adjustable suspension? If so were you in sport plus? Bimmerblog indicated that MDM was a bit more restrictive on the f8x than the e9x, would you agree? Not really relevant for the track, I ask more for street use. Were you shifting at red line? If not where? Tire pressures hot? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-26-2015, 11:32 PM | #22 |
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
My E90 on stock ZCP springs is also pretty squirelly under hard braking from high speed. It is in fact my limiting factor when braking from high speed, but everything is relative since even with the stock-is E90 I can still brake very late.
Anyway I thought on the E90 I could feel the CBC at work. I never could decide if I should let the system do its thing, or try to help it by steering into the mini slides. if you guys have any advice here I'd be grateful... If the F80 improves the braking even a little bit, I'll be very happy.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|