[elons335i]

Does anyone sell an actual Jack stand adapter? Not the thing attached but an actual V shaped stand adapter to accommodate for the lift point

[mythek]

Originally Posted by elons335i

Does anyone sell an actual Jack stand adapter? Not the thing attached but an actual V shaped stand adapter to accommodate for the lift point

no

[justpete]

Originally Posted by elons335i

Does anyone sell an actual Jack stand adapter? Not the thing attached but an actual V shaped stand adapter to accommodate for the lift point

Never seen one. But you can cut up some short pieces of 1x1 and they'll fit perfectly into the jack points and then deform under weight into the saddle of the jackstand. Been doing this for some time without any issues. Eventually the blocks will wear out but I always carry a few in the tool box.

[elons335i]

Originally Posted by justpete

Never seen one. But you can cut up some short pieces of 1x1 and they'll fit perfectly into the jack points and then deform under weight into the saddle of the jackstand. Been doing this for some time without any issues. Eventually the blocks will wear out but I always carry a few in the tool box.

Can you post a pic?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by elons335i

Can you post a pic?

[elons335i]

Originally Posted by justpete

Attachment 1138037

Nice! What are the exact dimension?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by elons335i

Nice! What are the exact dimension?

Pretty sure it's 2.25" but will check when I get home.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by justpete

Pretty sure it's 2.25" but will check when I get home.

Nope, I was wrong, it's 2-1/8"

[Efthreeoh]

Why not just get the proper stands that have a flat rubber top? You are using axle stands that are meant to be placed under an (live) axle of a truck or car.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Why not just get the proper stands that have a flat rubber top? You are using axle stands that are meant to be placed under an (live) axle of a truck or car.

Because the weight of the car will be unevenly applied to the walls of the jack points instead of to the inner surface that's bearing directly on the intended stress points of the chassis. And they'll fail, distorting the opening in the jack point due to the high pressure of all that weight on the thin edges of the plastic walls making them increasingly difficult to use. Using a block of some kind to transfer the weight of the car from the chassis jack point itself to the stand is a better solution than improper use of the walls of the plastic jack point to transfer the weight to a non-standard jackstand, ime.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by justpete

Because the weight of the car will be unevenly applied to the walls of the jack points instead of to the inner surface that's bearing directly on the intended stress points of the chassis. And they'll fail, distorting the opening in the jack point due to the high pressure of all that weight on the thin edges of the plastic walls making them increasingly difficult to use. Using a block of some kind to transfer the weight of the car from the chassis jack point itself to the stand is a better solution than improper use of the walls of the plastic jack point to transfer the weight to a non-standard jackstand, ime.

Totally false. I have a lift. I've lifted my car over the last 8 years over 100 times for hours at a time with no damage or deformation to the lifting blocks. I've left the car on the lift for over 24 hours several times with no issues. The lifting blocks deform because people do not use the proper equipment with them, such as using a floor jack that does not roll properly as the car is raised, or axle jackstands that place a high pressure load on very small parts of the lifting block walls. Use of flat top jackstands such as an ESCO stand will not damage the lifting blocks.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Totally false. I have a lift. I've lifted my car over the last 8 years over 100 times for hours at a time with no damage or deformation to the lifting blocks. I've left the car on the lift for over 24 hours several times with no issues. The lifting blocks deform because people do not use the proper equipment with them, such as using a floor jack that does not roll properly as the car is raised, or axle jackstands that place a high pressure load on very small parts of the lifting block walls. Use of flat top jackstands such as an ESCO stand will not damage the lifting blocks.

And I have two damaged jack points from the car being lifted improperly at the dealership which is strange since lifts by definition lift evenly. Jacking the car from the side or the front does not as pressure, by definition, is applied unevenly making it relatively easy to deform or break the walls even if the jack rolls properly, as you note.

A flat top jackstand will apply the load unevenly to the jack point since by definition the top of the jackstand isn't parallel to the bottom of the jack point when the car is lifted at one point rather than at all four as it is on a lift. The pad isn't soft enough to evenly distribute the load and by definition cannot eliminate the slight side loading of the walls so it's not the best solution although definitely better than a standard jackstand without a spacer of some kind.

Initially I was going to get some Esco stands but the above engineering analysis told me they weren't the best solution so I use made-in-the-US Norco forklift jackstands at home (way more expensive than Esco jacktands) which have a more shallow v-shaped top but still need spacers to avoid damage to the jack points. And you can see the deformation and compression that occurs in the wood blocks due to the uneven application of load. On one you can see how a damaged rear wall on one jack point makes it impossible to get the wood block fully into the jack point and thus the end of the block gets crushed when used there. OTOH, if a flat top jackstand has enough play so its riser can tilt enough to remain flat against the jack point at least the chance of causing damage is minimal.

And a typical floor jack will damage the rocker cover if not spaced off the jack point in the first place, at least my Brunnhoelzl will as will any decent floor jack that I know of anyway. The only time I need to use a rubber pad is on the lift point of my AC Hydraulics DK13HLQ when lifting on the diff body but of course never on the front center jack point. That's a recipe for a punched through oil pan...

However, I wasn't talking about using a lift but about using jackstands and the point that cheap blocks of wood and a cheap jackstand will work as well or better than an Esco stand in the long run for a lot less money, which was my only point.

Mainly because it's kinda difficult to carry a lift to the track I carry the Brunnhoelzl and a small Jet screw jack that sits in the middle of the Brunnhoelzl and supports the lift point from underneath for safety and with a small wood spacer to apply even pressure and avoid damage from the top of the screw jack to the aluminum jack structure. And I still use a wood block between the jack and the jack point to avoid damage to the rocker cover as well as to avoid unevenly loading the jack point walls.

[carguy138]

DO NOT USE WOOD BLOCKS!!

I tried this in the past, had the wood unexpectedly split and the car almost fall off a jackstand.

I use the above ECS adapter for my floor jack and cut hockey pucks for jack stand pads.

[Greatdane84]

Originally Posted by carguy138

DO NOT USE WOOD BLOCKS!!

I tried this in the past, had the wood unexpectedly split and the car almost fall off a jackstand.

I use the above ECS adapter for my floor jack and cut hockey pucks for jack stand pads.

Yeah the moment i saw that wood chills formed. Thats not safe. Im not sure why people feel the need for an adapter.

No need

[justpete]

Originally Posted by carguy138

DO NOT USE WOOD BLOCKS!!

I tried this in the past, had the wood unexpectedly split and the car almost fall off a jackstand.

I use the above ECS adapter for my floor jack and cut hockey pucks for jack stand pads.

That's why I sized the wood blocks to the size of the jack point. If they split they won't cause any damage. They do deform which is obvious and after some use they should be discarded, that's just common sense. A 6ft 1x1 is dirt cheap as is a cheapo plastic miter box.

Note that it wouldn't be a good idea to use a wood block with the grain oriented vertically since it'd be weaker that way and it's likely to be smaller than the jack point leaving plenty of room to collapse, especially if it's much taller than the inside height of the jack point. A section of 1x1 even after it's compressed under load has most of its volume inside the jack point.

The sections of 1x1 aren't much different in size than the rectangular section of the ECS adapter which I also decided not to buy for the simple reason that it won't deform to accommodate the uneven loading produced by a single point support. It is however better than using nothing and unevenly loading the jack point.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Greatdane84

Yeah the moment i saw that wood chills formed. Thats not safe. Im not sure why people feel the need for an adapter.

No need

Plenty of need, use a jackstand meant for supporting a live axle and the jack point will if not immediately then eventually be damaged by pinching the sides.

If the wood block is sized to fill the volume of the jack point with only a small percentage left outside after compression then there's no point of failure, it just fills up the volume of the jack point and provides a resting point on the jackstand.

Admittedly using a block of wood under the jack point would be really stoopid.

[carguy138]

I did exactly what you described and had it split. Plus if you notice from the pictures you took, you cut across the grain rather than with it. Much higher chance of splitting.

Remember you have nearly two tons of weight sitting on four points when the car is up on jack stands. Even the most subtle shift can be very unpredictable and knock a car off the stands.

Wouldn't risk it but do what you want; unfortunately if it does go wrong it's a self correcting problem. I got lucky and wouldn't advise anyone do the same.

[Greyfox]

Or just buy 4 decent jack stands and do this....

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727131

[justpete]

Originally Posted by carguy138

I did exactly what you described and had it split. Plus if you notice from the pictures you took, you cut across the grain rather than with it. Much higher chance of splitting.

Remember you have nearly two tons of weight sitting on four points when the car is up on jack stands. Even the most subtle shift can be very unpredictable and knock a car off the stands.

Wouldn't risk it but do what you want; unfortunately if it does go wrong it's a self correcting problem. I got lucky and wouldn't advise anyone do the same.

Yes, I cut across the grain deliberately since the easy way to split wood is to apply a point or line load parallel to the grain. And my car is ~3250# which would be ~800# on each corner if it were up on four jackstands.

But jackstands are never to be used except in pairs on either end of the car in conjunction with wheel chocks on both sides of the grounded tires, never with the car on four stands, that's pretty much standard safety stuff right there. Yeah, people do it all the time but it's unsafe as hell because the jackstands aren't rigidly fixed to the floor and can easily topple from the overturning moment when the car experiences sideways applied forces.

Like I said before the piece of 1x1 is entirely captive within the jackpoint, in the horizontal plane. After compression the blocks are about 11/16" thick and half of its thickness is contained in the jack point. If it were to split no lateral movement can occur unless the split is entirely or close to entirely below the jack point. The car can't easily shift appreciably since this split would then have to be predominantly in the horizontal plane resulting in a mostly normal loading in the split plane.

And by definition it's unlikely to split if the forces aren't appreciably in shear. Note one block is simply deformed sideways without splitting. And the top of the Norco jackstands as well as the lift point on the Brunnhoelzl are wide enough to handle it with plenty of margin as would any axle-type jackstand and floor jack. Again though, there's no significant side load from working on the car as much as there is when the car's on a single lift point which it is only long enough to adjust a camber plate and/or change a wheel, change brake pads, etc.

Since I don't use more than two jackstands at a time knocking the car off of them is virtually impossible with the Norcos. It's even less likely using the Brunnhoelzl jack. I wouldn't recommend the wood blocks when using four jackstands since I would never recommend using four jackstands.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Or just buy 4 decent jack stands and do this....

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727131

Yep, saw that and it's a great solution too. Still wouldn't use four jackstands though no matter what the jackstands are if they aren't bolted to the floor strong enough to withstand side loading over their very short bases. That's a hell of a moment the jackstand structure likely couldn't survive without deforming or breaking even if they were somehow bolted down to the floor well enough.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by justpete

Yep, saw that and it's a great solution too. Still wouldn't use four jackstands though no matter what the jackstands are if they aren't bolted to the floor strong enough to withstand side loading over their very short bases. That's a hell of a moment the jackstand structure likely couldn't survive without deforming or breaking even if they were somehow bolted down to the floor well enough.

One of my other options when I need the wheels and suspension loaded is using wood cribbings under all the wheels. I've got 4 sets built that allow either 7" or 14" to be placed under the tires.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

One of my other options when I need the wheels and suspension loaded is using wood cribbings under all the wheels. I've got 4 sets built that allow either 7" or 14" to be placed under the tires.

Cool, that's the safe way to get the whole chassis lifted high enough to work under it. As long as the cribs are as wide or wider than their height the car's virtually impossible to tip. Even better if the cribs are attached to dollies so no overturning moment can exist between the cribs and the floor.