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      09-20-2014, 09:03 AM   #1
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Engine Oiling On Track

According to Albert Biermann:
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To have a car performing on a racetrack you need a very good oilpan system. It doesn’t look like a dry sump system, but it acts like a dry sump system. We have an extra suction pump where we take the oil out of the oilpan, especially in the front area under heavy braking. We make sure that we can go up to 1.4 g on the braking and still keep a very safe oil level. And in cornering we go to 1.2 g of lateral acceleration and the oil system is still robust and reliable.
I don't think this car will be able to handle racing slicks.
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      09-20-2014, 09:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
According to Albert Biermann:


I don't think this car will be able to handle racing slicks.
Maybe so, but should be fine up to Toyo R888 or Nitto NT01. Would need a lot more neg. camber anyway to use slicks which we can't get yet until someone comes out with some damn camber plates.

But yes, don't throw racing slicks or autocross tires on this thing please.
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      09-20-2014, 12:49 PM   #3
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I would be extremely surprised if this engine couldn't handle more than stated. The S54, S65, and S85 have all had no issues with hard cornering or breaking, it would very disappointing if the S55 couldn't do the same. I'm putting R-Comps on mine, fingers crossed the motor doesn't blow
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      09-21-2014, 07:43 AM   #4
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I was able to generate 1.38g on a PSS (not in an M3/4).

One would think the sump would be an improvement over the previous gen, and that the quoted number is low.

Are well setup e92 GTS cars running the stock pan/sump?

Does the s55 have a partitioned pan like my e92 had?
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      09-22-2014, 12:13 AM   #5
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I am sure it will be fine.

BMW made factory built mini challenge racecars that were designed to race on slicks with factory fitted KW V3 race suspension. These ran a standard unmodified R56 mini engine with a standard wet sump etc. I am sure they pulled big g forces.

There are hundreds or thousands of people around the world who have run standard e36/e46/e92 M3's on the track with slicks and unmodified engines, and I don't see a whole lot of problems.

I am sure the f80/f82 engine is at least as capable.

Now that is not to say it is ideal, and doesn't need improvement. People will eventually do things to improve oil surge etc. However it gives me confidence that BMW built a dedicated racecar (mini challenge) without modifying the sump etc. They must have a certain level of over engineering.
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      09-22-2014, 08:14 AM   #6
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>1.2 lateral Gs for how long?

An oil pressure gauge would be nice. I can set one up with my Aim Solo DL, but still it would be nice to have the car report oil pressure on its own.
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      09-22-2014, 08:26 AM   #7
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I think that is the real question, for how long?

Solo DL will record, so that is good, but for real-time display the Awron gauge may be useful along with the temps.
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      09-22-2014, 08:51 AM   #8
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You can configure the Aim Solo DL display to show any one, two, or four parameters you are logging real time.
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      09-22-2014, 08:57 AM   #9
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I use the predictive timing mostly, but may be I should adjust until I have confidence.
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      09-22-2014, 09:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbo mcs View Post
I am sure it will be fine.

BMW made factory built mini challenge racecars that were designed to race on slicks with factory fitted KW V3 race suspension. These ran a standard unmodified R56 mini engine with a standard wet sump etc. I am sure they pulled big g forces.

There are hundreds or thousands of people around the world who have run standard e36/e46/e92 M3's on the track with slicks and unmodified engines, and I don't see a whole lot of problems.

I am sure the f80/f82 engine is at least as capable.

Now that is not to say it is ideal, and doesn't need improvement. People will eventually do things to improve oil surge etc. However it gives me confidence that BMW built a dedicated racecar (mini challenge) without modifying the sump etc. They must have a certain level of over engineering.
Agreed, I have put about four-thousand track miles on my S54 pulling 1.6+ g's without issue. Now has 108k miles on the original motor. I did rod bearings and a valve adjustment along with all the gaskets but it's got the stock sump. If the S55 can't handle the same, I'll be really disappointed. Yay for warranty though!
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      12-01-2014, 04:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
I would be extremely surprised if this engine couldn't handle more than stated. The S54, S65, and S85 have all had no issues with hard cornering or breaking, it would very disappointing if the S55 couldn't do the same. I'm putting R-Comps on mine, fingers crossed the motor doesn't blow
Per the technical documentation of each engine, the E92 can do ~1.4g cornering data (IIRC), higher than the 1.2g the F80 can do.

I remember thinking it was odd
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      12-01-2014, 04:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Per the technical documentation of each engine, the E92 can do ~1.4g cornering data (IIRC), higher than the 1.2g the F80 can do.

I remember thinking it was odd
This is extremely strange, I'm going to guess they quoted low numbers to deter people from pushing the engine to its limits. Either way, I'm not worried about it - I have faith in the S55!
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      12-01-2014, 05:17 PM   #13
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Definitely about sustained g's, high engine speed and track configuration...braking g's/cambered surface/connected corners. Having oil starved a Cayman S and Boxster motor to failure (rod bearings, both catastrophic, one leading to a fire), it can be fine line between moderate R tires and aggressive R tires or slicks like Hoosier A6s.
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      12-02-2014, 07:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
This is extremely strange, I'm going to guess they quoted low numbers to deter people from pushing the engine to its limits. Either way, I'm not worried about it - I have faith in the S55!
I recon you'll be the first one to reach the limit of the oiling system!
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      12-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I recon you'll be the first one to reach the limit of the oiling system!
Well I will be running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's with significant aero, so I will be seeing over 1.2g's pretty consistently, hopefully everything is fine, if not BMW is going to hate me
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      12-02-2014, 08:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
Well I will be running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's with significant aero, so I will be seeing over 1.2g's pretty consistently, hopefully everything is fine, if not BMW is going to hate me
You're putting a wing on your F80? Gotta see this. Pics please!
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      12-02-2014, 09:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
Well I will be running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's with significant aero, so I will be seeing over 1.2g's pretty consistently, hopefully everything is fine, if not BMW is going to hate me
Oh yeah! Haha before long you will be stripping your interior out, I can see it coming!
Aren't you the guy who ran 2:07 at WGI?

I wonder how a warranty claim of oil starvation will be handled if you have a massive wing on the car!
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      12-02-2014, 10:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
You're putting a wing on your F80? Gotta see this. Pics please!
Oh there will be pics! Trying to decide on a wing - Bimmerworld, Aeromotions, or Brooks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Oh yeah! Haha before long you will be stripping your interior out, I can see it coming!
Aren't you the guy who ran 2:07 at WGI?

I wonder how a warranty claim of oil starvation will be handled if you have a massive wing on the car!
Interior is staying in the car, for now, at least. Nothing in BMW's warranty states you can't put a giant wing on it
And yes, that was I at Watkins Glen.
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      12-02-2014, 11:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC17 View Post
Oh there will be pics! Trying to decide on a wing - Bimmerworld, Aeromotions, or Brooks.



Interior is staying in the car, for now, at least. Nothing in BMW's warranty states you can't put a giant wing on it
And yes, that was I at Watkins Glen.
LOL you say that now but I wonder if you'll be able to keep your word haha

You are one fast driver! Kudos!
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      12-02-2014, 12:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
LOL you say that now but I wonder if you'll be able to keep your word haha

You are one fast driver! Kudos!
Thansk! We'll see, I said the same thing with the E46 and look what happened!
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