[Domonicdave]

I foolishly admit that I rushed my decision on my 2012 purchase, and have regretted it since day one. I love the 328i, don't get me wrong, but I should have gotten the 335i with the bitchen head lights and all the other cool upgrades like DHP. shoulda woulda coulda...

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Of the 45K miles I'm allowed, I've consumed about 38K so I'm averaging a significant amount per month. Obviously at my current rate, I will exceed my allowable miles by lease end which is 8/15. I've recently purchased a "beater car" for various reasons so milage isn't really the problem here as I could park my 328 until lease end.

Anyway....here is the question that my dealer can't seem to answer straight. I would think it would be in my best interest (and my dealers) to trade the car now - before 2015. If I trade the car on 8/15 - the car is going to be worth much less than residual, and it is my understanding that the dealer is on the hook for value less than residual minus dents, dings, tire ware, etc. I've been to CarMax and they are offering right around my residual value today - hence the reason I think the car will be worth less than residual 11 months from now.

Thoughts?

[Ryan9095]

If you are unhappy get rid of it. I have a 2012 328i lease as well and I've been wanting to get rid of it for a good year and a half. I just ordered a 4 series convertible and I figured I'd eat the 2k remaining payments to get in the new car now. The dealer was really difficult and wouldn't contribute. The car is only going depreciate more as time passes with increased mileage.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

I foolishly admit that I rushed my decision on my 2012 purchase, and have regretted it since day one. I love the 328i, don't get me wrong, but I should have gotten the 335i with the bitchen head lights and all the other cool upgrades like DHP. shoulda woulda coulda...

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Of the 45K miles I'm allowed, I've consumed about 38K so I'm averaging a significant amount per month. Obviously at my current rate, I will exceed my allowable miles by lease end which is 8/15. I've recently purchased a "beater car" for various reasons so milage isn't really the problem here as I could park my 328 until lease end.

Anyway....here is the question that my dealer can't seem to answer straight. I would think it would be in my best interest (and my dealers) to trade the car now - before 2015. If I trade the car on 8/15 - the car is going to be worth much less than residual, and it is my understanding that the dealer is on the hook for value less than residual minus dents, dings, tire ware, etc. I've been to CarMax and they are offering right around my residual value today - hence the reason I think the car will be worth less than residual 11 months from now.

Thoughts?

The dealer is not on the hook for anything. The car belongs to BMWFS. You are on the hook for 16 cents per mile you are over the contracted mileage (assuming you buy additional miles before you return the car. It's 20 cents per mile if you don't.) The dealer just returns the car to BMWFS and they're finished with it.

Based on what you've said if you were to keep up your current mileage it sounds like you'll be over by 10k - 15k miles, which is $1,600 - $2,400 additional cash you'll owe to BMWFS at lease end.

Over paying your monthly payment on a lease doesn't save you any interest as it does in a loan. Unless you completely pay off the lease early your finance cost is set and does not change.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

I foolishly admit that I rushed my decision on my 2012 purchase, and have regretted it since day one. I love the 328i, don't get me wrong, but I should have gotten the 335i with the bitchen head lights and all the other cool upgrades like DHP. shoulda woulda coulda...

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Of the 45K miles I'm allowed, I've consumed about 38K so I'm averaging a significant amount per month. Obviously at my current rate, I will exceed my allowable miles by lease end which is 8/15. I've recently purchased a "beater car" for various reasons so milage isn't really the problem here as I could park my 328 until lease end.

Anyway....here is the question that my dealer can't seem to answer straight. I would think it would be in my best interest (and my dealers) to trade the car now - before 2015. If I trade the car on 8/15 - the car is going to be worth much less than residual, and it is my understanding that the dealer is on the hook for value less than residual minus dents, dings, tire ware, etc. I've been to CarMax and they are offering right around my residual value today - hence the reason I think the car will be worth less than residual 11 months from now.

Thoughts?

Keep the car until you hit 44500 miles. Then, pay all outstanding lease payments. Turn in the car.

Go get a new car and buy or lease it using the experience you gained from this deal.

All is well. The world is complete.

The only caveat is if somehow you would need new tires if you wait until 44,500 miles then do the calculus and see if you should turn it in now.

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

I foolishly admit that I rushed my decision on my 2012 purchase, and have regretted it since day one. I love the 328i, don't get me wrong, but I should have gotten the 335i with the bitchen head lights and all the other cool upgrades like DHP. shoulda woulda coulda...

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Of the 45K miles I'm allowed, I've consumed about 38K so I'm averaging a significant amount per month. Obviously at my current rate, I will exceed my allowable miles by lease end which is 8/15. I've recently purchased a "beater car" for various reasons so milage isn't really the problem here as I could park my 328 until lease end.

Anyway....here is the question that my dealer can't seem to answer straight. I would think it would be in my best interest (and my dealers) to trade the car now - before 2015. If I trade the car on 8/15 - the car is going to be worth much less than residual, and it is my understanding that the dealer is on the hook for value less than residual minus dents, dings, tire ware, etc. I've been to CarMax and they are offering right around my residual value today - hence the reason I think the car will be worth less than residual 11 months from now.

Thoughts?

If you're within $2000 of your pay off, then have them pull it ahead. You're going to rack up significant $$$ in mileage overages, so if you already paid for the car, turn it in, shouldn't be any skin off your back... except for being able to drive the car for free for a few months.


They can also negotiate a pull ahead, and likely meet you in the middle at $1000 credit to you to trade your car in now. They can also finance that other $1000 owed into a new vehicle.

You have options. The most important question at lease early trade in is how much do you owe, and if it's under $2k, this shouldn't be a problem.

I once traded in a SUV a year early and ate an entire year of payments, which I made up in gas savings from my new car.

[tpdietz]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

I foolishly admit that I rushed my decision on my 2012 purchase, and have regretted it since day one. I love the 328i, don't get me wrong, but I should have gotten the 335i with the bitchen head lights and all the other cool upgrades like DHP. shoulda woulda coulda...

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Of the 45K miles I'm allowed, I've consumed about 38K so I'm averaging a significant amount per month. Obviously at my current rate, I will exceed my allowable miles by lease end which is 8/15. I've recently purchased a "beater car" for various reasons so milage isn't really the problem here as I could park my 328 until lease end.

Anyway....here is the question that my dealer can't seem to answer straight. I would think it would be in my best interest (and my dealers) to trade the car now - before 2015. If I trade the car on 8/15 - the car is going to be worth much less than residual, and it is my understanding that the dealer is on the hook for value less than residual minus dents, dings, tire ware, etc. I've been to CarMax and they are offering right around my residual value today - hence the reason I think the car will be worth less than residual 11 months from now.

Thoughts?

I've been in a similar position as this. Wait until the end of your lease and be over your miles (which you say isn't much of a problem for you), or get out of the least early and pay. You usually will end up upside down financially either way. How much you are willing to pay to get into a new vehicle is up to you.

To get out of the lease early, it will cost you: (residual + payments remaining) - trade in value = amount you owe.

Residual + payments remaining is called the buy out, and can be found out by calling BMW financial or possible through BMW financial online.

Good luck.

[Domonicdave]

thanks for all the thoughts.

Am I right that if i wait till lease end and the trade in value is less than residual, I won't owe anything? or said other way: my liability at lease end with BMWFS is my residual contract value - no less (barring excessive ware and tear)

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

thanks for all the thoughts.

Am I right that if i wait till lease end and the trade in value is less than residual, I won't owe anything? or said other way: my liability at lease end with BMWFS is my residual contract value - no less (barring excessive ware and tear)

As long as you are within the contracted parameters when you turn in the car you walk away. There is a $350 disposition fee in your contact that you will owe if you do that. If you get a new lease with BMWFS they will waive the disposition fee. They probably will also waive it if you finance a new car with them.

If your mileage exceeds the contracted allowance you will have to pay for that.


The market value of the car is frequently less than the contracted residual value and the dealer can buy the car from BMWFS for an amount less than the residual. In those cases you may be able to negotiate with the dealer to buy the car for less than the contracted residual.

[BMRGUY]

You are completely confused.

At the end if the lease your only obligated for the wear and tear and excess mileage. Other than that you turn in the car. If there is more equity in the car than what was originally contracted as per your lease the dealer may decide to purchase the car. They are not obligated nor are you obligated to purchase the car. If you or the dealer purchase the car excess mileage and wear and tear is no longer your obligation.

If your dealer purchases the car and after wear and tear and mileage the value of the car is higher than wholesale blue book you can negotiate to have the excess equity applied to your new lease...most will not do this but possible and is a negotiation point.

Since you will be so much over your mileage I agree that you should keep the car till you have exhausted all your payments then return the car then paying off the remaining payments. You can however, if you have enough equity in the car try to get a dealer to payoff the lease and buy out the lease...doubtful..

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMRGUY

You are completely confused.

At the end if the lease your only obligated for the wear and tear and excess mileage. Other than that you turn in the car. If there is more equity in the car than what was originally contracted as per your lease the dealer may decide to purchase the car. They are not obligated nor are you obligated to purchase the car. If you or the dealer purchase the car excess mileage and wear and tear is no longer your obligation.

If your dealer purchases the car and after wear and tear and mileage the value of the car is higher than wholesale blue book you can negotiate to have the excess equity applied to your new lease...most will not do this but possible and is a negotiation point.

Since you will be so much over your mileage I agree that you should keep the car till you have exhausted all your payments then return the car then paying off the remaining payments. You can however, if you have enough equity in the car try to get a dealer to payoff the lease and buy out the lease...doubtful..

Huh??? I don't mean to be rude, but I'm afraid you might be more confused than the OP.

If one is over mileage the ONLY way to avoid paying for the excess mileage (and any excess wear and tear) is to purchase the car from BMWFS for the contracted residual. If the dealer purchases the car from BMWFS after the lease maturity and the car is turned in the lessee is absolutely responsible for the excess mileage and/or excess wear and tear.

If the auction value of the car is low enough and the sale price offered to the dealer by BMWFS is low enough the dealer could conceivably, in exceedingly rare circumstances, offer to sell the lessee the car at a price low enough to offset the excess charges that were due. Theoretically this could happen, but I've never seen anyone post that it happened for them in the nine years I've been active on BMW forums.

[BMRGUY]

Yes your rude and speaking out if your a$$. Read the post carefully...he's not over mileage yet.

And your wrong again! I have personally as part of negotiating with the dealer had them purchase the car from the leasing company as part of the deal for the exact same reason as the op (I was 15k over mileageon my x5). My advisor is the one who did a solid by me and convinced the use car manager to purchase the x5. All mileage and wear and tear was gone!

If you turn the car in then you are obligated for the excess miles and wear and tear whether or not the dealer purchases it.

Most BMWs have equity far higher than wholesale as long as there is no damage. So it's possible I'm living proof!

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Huh??? I don't mean to be rude, but I'm afraid you might be more confused than the OP.

If one is over mileage the ONLY way to avoid paying for the excess mileage (and any excess wear and tear) is to purchase the car from BMWFS for the contracted residual. If the dealer purchases the car from BMWFS after the lease maturity and the car is turned in the lessee is absolutely responsible for the excess mileage and/or excess wear and tear.

If the auction value of the car is low enough and the sale price offered to the dealer by BMWFS is low enough the dealer could conceivably, in exceedingly rare circumstances, offer to sell the lessee the car at a price low enough to offset the excess charges that were due. Theoretically this could happen, but I've never seen anyone post that it happened for them in the nine years I've been active on BMW forums.

[JayRusso]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

Anyway, since day one I've been paying about $140 more towards my monthly payment and have now come within $2,000 difference between the Pay Off and the residual value.

Why would you pay extra each month on a lease? From my understanding, if anything happened to that car, you are out that money, since you don't own it, no? That being said, even if you are 15k miles over, that's $2400 upon termination (if you prepay, the day before @ 16 cents/mile). If you had held on to that $140 each month, you would have had that much after 18 months.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMRGUY

Yes you're rude and speaking out if your a$$. Read the post carefully...he's not over mileage yet.

And you're wrong again! I have personally as part of negotiating with the dealer had them purchase the car from the leasing company as part of the deal for the exact same reason as the op (I was 15k over mileageon my x5). My advisor is the one who did a solid by me and convinced the use car manager to purchase the x5. All mileage and wear and tear was gone!

If you turn the car in then you are obligated for the excess miles and wear and tear whether or not the dealer purchases it.

Most BMWs have equity far higher than wholesale as long as there is no damage. So it's possible I'm living proof!

So you did this as part of the purchase of another vehicle, right? The excesses weren't gone. There was a high enough margin in the new deal that the dealer covered them out of the margin rather than pass a lower selling price on to you. You may work a deal where no cash appears to leave your pocket, but there is no free lunch.

[omaralt]

Wait, why are you paying an extra $140/month?? This makes no sense to me. You leased a car that you regretted later on; that's ok, we all do that. But why are you paying $140/month extra for? Where is that money going? Are you prepaying your lease payments? You're best bet is just to hang on to thr car and6 months before your lease expires do a pull ahead and lease another BMW (if that's what you want). Hopefully you're not too over on miles at that point. I'm just really confused as to where that $140/month extra is going

[Domonicdave]

Originally Posted by omaralt

Wait, why are you paying an extra $140/month?? This makes no sense to me. You leased a car that you regretted later on; that's ok, we all do that. But why are you paying $140/month extra for? Where is that money going? Are you prepaying your lease payments? You're best bet is just to hang on to thr car and6 months before your lease expires do a pull ahead and lease another BMW (if that's what you want). Hopefully you're not too over on miles at that point. I'm just really confused as to where that $140/month extra is going

My issue really isn't miles - I can certainly park the car and wait for contract end. I think buying more miles, in my particular case, doesn't get me to my end game.

My end game is to get out of this lease and into the exact car I want. I'm paying ahead to BMWFS in order to reduce the amount that I'd have to pull forward (aka: roll) into my dream car lease. My intention is to get out of the my current lease ASAP.

Now someone is bound to ask if I've looked into 'swap my lease', which I haven't, because I know nothing about it and I'm scared my lack of experience will put me at risk of loosing more money.

The heart of my question is: since I've been paying ahead, does it make sense to trade the car before December 31st 2014?

[kent11202]

"The dealer is not on the hook for anything. The car belongs to BMWFS."

While I'm sure that's true, the reality is that taking back a vehicle that's worth less than what the residual is hurts BMW's bottom line. I have been tracking the value of mine and, as it currently stands, the wholesale book value is dangerously close to the residual with TWO years remaining on the lease - this does not bode well for BMW or, if you chose, BMFS.

Needless to say, for the very first time, I'll be turning a vehicle in at lease end and let "them" worry about it.

I typically lease a car for "openers" just so I can have a "really extended test drive." Yes, I know doing that is a bit more expensive but it's worth it to me.

After about a year I make the decision to keep it (buy it and pay it off) or get rid of it the first chance I get. This vehicle, for a variety of issues unrelated to mechanical problems (I've had none), falls into the later category.

It's really a shame because, while there are SO many things I do like about it, there are some I find completely annoying on a daily basis. In defense of BMW, my research indicates they are not alone inasmuch as there are several manufacturers following their lead in an effort to cut costs without lowering/maintaining MSRP or providing more value for the money. For example, charging $950 for a "package" that includes PDC and a backup camera is borderline highway robbery. Most people would be more than satisfied with just the backup camera which, as has been reported, only increases the vehicle cost be about $50. A $19,000 Honda Civic comes standard with one so somebody is charging WAY more than they should be and, no, I'm not looking at buying a civic.

They will all face a consumer backlash at some point when people realize there are vehicles out there that are attractive, perform reasonable well, have comparable or better technology and can be profitable at a much lower price.

Take the BMW badge off and add a KIA badge, or vice versa, and "most" people (other than the "purists") wouldn't know the difference after driving either one.

OK, rant over, flame away......

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by Domonicdave

My issue really isn't miles - I can certainly park the car and wait for contract end. I think buying more miles, in my particular case, doesn't get me to my end game.

My end game is to get out of this lease and into the exact car I want. I'm paying ahead to BMWFS in order to reduce the amount that I'd have to pull forward (aka: roll) into my dream car lease. My intention is to get out of the my current lease ASAP.

Now someone is bound to ask if I've looked into 'swap my lease', which I haven't, because I know nothing about it and I'm scared my lack of experience will put me at risk of loosing more money.

The heart of my question is: since I've been paying ahead, does it make sense to trade the car before December 31st 2014?

Again I'm still not understanding. It seems like you are completely wasting that extra money. Who cares what it's worth at the end of the lease?? That's bmw's problem. If you want to get out of the lease early then the best thing is to swap it out. I've swapped two leases in the last two years and BMW makes it extremely easy. It really seems to me that you are foolishly wasting $140/month.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by kent11202

"The dealer is not on the hook for anything. The car belongs to BMWFS."

While I'm sure that's true, the reality is that taking back a vehicle that's worth less than what the residual is hurts BMW's bottom line. I have been tracking the value of mine and, as it currently stands, the wholesale book value is dangerously close to the residual with TWO years remaining on the lease - this does not bode well for BMW or, if you chose, BMFS.

Needless to say, for the very first time, I'll be turning a vehicle in at lease end and let "them" worry about it.

I typically lease a car for "openers" just so I can have a "really extended test drive." Yes, I know doing that is a bit more expensive but it's worth it to me.

After about a year I make the decision to keep it (buy it and pay it off) or get rid of it the first chance I get. This vehicle, for a variety of issues unrelated to mechanical problems (I've had none), falls into the later category.

It's really a shame because, while there are SO many things I do like about it, there are some I find completely annoying on a daily basis. In defense of BMW, my research indicates they are not alone inasmuch as there are several manufacturers following their lead in an effort to cut costs without lowering/maintaining MSRP or providing more value for the money. For example, charging $950 for a "package" that includes PDC and a backup camera is borderline highway robbery. Most people would be more than satisfied with just the backup camera which, as has been reported, only increases the vehicle cost be about $50. A $19,000 Honda Civic comes standard with one so somebody is charging WAY more than they should be and, no, I'm not looking at buying a civic.

They will all face a consumer backlash at some point when people realize there are vehicles out there that are attractive, perform reasonable well, have comparable or better technology and can be profitable at a much lower price.

Take the BMW badge off and add a KIA badge, or vice versa, and "most" people (other than the "purists") wouldn't know the difference after driving either one.

OK, rant over, flame away......

This is your first German car, isn't it? You've just experienced the German way. With German cars you are paying for the vehicle engineering. And people are willing to pay. Other manufacturers offer more bells and whistles, because it's necessary to get their cars sold.

On the new Mercedes C Class the camera is a $460 standalone option. If you want the sensors they are packaged with the "robotic" parking feature for $970 for a total of $1,430.

German car sales are increasing, not decreasing. Don't look for pricing structures to change much.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by omaralt

Wait, why are you paying an extra $140/month?? This makes no sense to me. You leased a car that you regretted later on; that's ok, we all do that. But why are you paying $140/month extra for? Where is that money going? Are you prepaying your lease payments? You're best bet is just to hang on to thr car and6 months before your lease expires do a pull ahead and lease another BMW (if that's what you want). Hopefully you're not too over on miles at that point. I'm just really confused as to where that $140/month extra is going

So you can just pull ahead 6 months before your lease is up? What kind of fees are there?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

So you can just pull ahead 6 months before your lease is up? What kind of fees are there?

No. Pull aheads are special programs offered by BMWFS at their discretion.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by kent11202

It's really a shame because, while there are SO many things I do like about it, there are some I find completely annoying on a daily basis. In defense of BMW, my research indicates they are not alone inasmuch as there are several manufacturers following their lead in an effort to cut costs without lowering/maintaining MSRP or providing more value for the money. For example, charging $950 for a "package" that includes PDC and a backup camera is borderline highway robbery. Most people would be more than satisfied with just the backup camera which, as has been reported, only increases the vehicle cost be about $50. A $19,000 Honda Civic comes standard with one so somebody is charging WAY more than they should be and, no, I'm not looking at buying a civic.

They will all face a consumer backlash at some point when people realize there are vehicles out there that are attractive, perform reasonable well, have comparable or better technology and can be profitable at a much lower price.

Take the BMW badge off and add a KIA badge, or vice versa, and "most" people (other than the "purists") wouldn't know the difference after driving either one.

OK, rant over, flame away......

Once you sit down with pencil and paper and try to compare features, prices, and total value you cannot come out ahead with a BMW or any other luxury brand. These cars are priced way beyond what their tangibles can justify. BMWs have heritage and they do certain things well, and when you combine that with the prestige the brand has identified itself with then you must decide whether you want to shell out 15k more than you really need to for a car. It's a personal decision that has to be made with all luxury goods.

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

So you can just pull ahead 6 months before your lease is up? What kind of fees are there?

No fees. BMW periodically runs pull ahead programs. As long as you lease another BMW you can get out of your existing lease 3-6 months early. No penalty. And you can have used your entire allotment of miles. Great program