[notires]

who would win? from a second gear roll.. would the 6mt win? i know the gearing in the sedan is more for acceleration from a stop and is a bit quicker in the 1/4 but from a roll, is the manual faster?

im new to the forums but i've been looking around for a few months and i havent been able to find many videos/info on the auto/maunal except for the fact that the auto is quicker off the line due to the gearing and that it does 0-60 .1sec faster than the manual.

i havent bought my 335 yet because im stuck between auto/manual and sedan/coupe (im pretty sold on the coupe tho)

help me out.

-alan

[Terry335]

Auto is faster across the board up to ~120mph.

[BoostedBMW]

If you base your purchase on which is a tenth of a second faster than you will probably regret your decision. You should buy what you enjoy driving more because you will spend much more time driving your car like a sane person than you will actually using that tenth of a second advantage. Just my opinion though from someone who uses his car as a daily driver.

[tizzletom]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

If you base your purchase on which is a tenth of a second faster than you will probably regret your decision. You should buy what you enjoy driving more because you will spend much more time driving your car like a sane person than you will actually using that tenth of a second advantage. Just my opinion though from someone who uses his car as a daily driver.

+1

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Auto is faster across the board up to ~120mph.

Yup.

I have not lost to a manual with equal (or in some cases even more) mods than I have.

And when I was stock I also would beat the manuals I ran.
I made one video of it on Streetfire that you can see too.

The autos lower gearing, speed of shifts, and the fact it holds boost between shifts (as all autos with turbos do) makes them a bit quicker.

But don't make your choice of transmission on that fact alone.

I love driving manuals, have all my life.
But after 12 years of driving manuals in LA traffic, I couldn't take it anymore and had to get an auto. I got lucky that the BMW's auto was so good.

Once more VW/Audi type DSG transmissions hit the market in other cars, that will be the transmission I get in all future cars.
And to think VW/Audi came out with that many years ago already.
Man were they ahead of the game in the transmission arena.

[OBI_agent]

Oh damn.....I thought there was a video!

[Jonmartin]

Auto is faster in a line Due to what Driver72 Stated.

[judec]

first post (+ no search) and instantly attempting to start a flame-war thread... what a nice introduction.

My answer to your question is: "Who cares?"

One advice tho - pls be so kind and spend some time reading the forum, learn to use the "Search" and "Search this forum" and "Search this thread" functions... and be good

J.

[Mr. 5]

IB4TL.

[Dan335i]

Get what you enjoy driving the most.PERIOD!

[Lane]

What if you don't lift the throttle fully when shifting to keep the boost and if you shift as fast as AT?
It depends on the starting speed too. Consider beginning at a speed at which AT wtq has declined already but MT has still high wtq. E.g. MT could be at 5500rpm when AT is at 6500rpm.

[AU335]

I, with a 6sp Manual, is indeed slower than Trill335 auto. We did countless runs from 20 and 40mph runs and everytime he slowly pulled on me. I think the big/main difference is the way auto retain the boost and there is no driver error in shifting. For us manuals, it is much harder to continually shift perfect and keep as much boost as possible.

[Kbueno]

Disagree, from the variations from the dynos we've seen on stock cars, one cannot conclude that autos are faster. BMW does list the manual as quicker.
My opinion is that it's too close to call....my 2 cents. Don't base your decision on splitting performance hairs.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

Disagree, from the variations from the dynos we've seen on stock cars, one cannot conclude that autos are faster. BMW does list the manual as quicker.
My opinion is that it's too close to call....my 2 cents. Don't base your decision on splitting performance hairs.

The sticks are a lot of fun but its pretty conclusive from what I've seen. The autos have something like a 6-7% gearing advantage, the ability to preload the turbos, and a very efficient torque converter. The sticks are much better for road racing of course...

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by Terry335

The sticks are a lot of fun but its pretty conclusive from what I've seen. The autos have something like a 6-7% gearing advantage, the ability to preload the turbos, and a very efficient torque converter. The sticks are much better for road racing of course...

While the gearing advantage helps them down low, what about higher speeds. Why are manuals putting (on average) more power down on dynos? Also, new turbo design (especially with the smaller turbos) spool up much quicker than the old ones did. Besides, I think one can keep a manual near full throttle when shifting on 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

While the gearing advantage helps them down low, what about higher speeds. Why are manuals putting (on average) more power down on dynos? Also, new turbo design (especially with the smaller turbos) spool up much quicker than the old ones did. Besides, I think one can keep a manual near full throttle when shifting on 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th.

There is nothing wrong with manuals, but they need to know they're at a disadvantage in a straight line race. You have to really drive it hard just to keep up with an auto.

I think the manual is overall slightly more efficent, which translates to ~5-10rwhp on the dyno, but it would need to be 20rwhp more to make up for the autos gearing and other advantages.

At really high speeds > 120 the manual is probably a lot better.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

Disagree, from the variations from the dynos we've seen on stock cars, one cannot conclude that autos are faster. BMW does list the manual as quicker.
My opinion is that it's too close to call....my 2 cents. Don't base your decision on splitting performance hairs.

As Terry said, dyno results mean nothing.
Sure the manuals put down 5-8 rwhp and a bit more torque on average than the autos.
But that's because it has less drivetrain loss.

But when doing a dyno run, you are in one gear (4th) which has close to a 1:1 gearing ratio.

What the dyno doesn't tell you is shift speed, gearing advantage, keeping the turbo on boost between shifts, etc etc.

It's not too close to call.
There have been many people who raced auto vs manual, including me on several occasions, have yet to see a manual driven by anybody who has pulled on an auto when both cars have the same mods.

As Terry said though, on a road race course, the manual would be faster though and you can drop several gears at a time and keep the car in gear for as long as you want, where the auto will automatically upshift if you get to like 6900 rpms.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by Driver72

As Terry said, dyno results mean nothing.
Sure the manuals put down 5-8 rwhp and a bit more torque on average than the autos.
But that's because it has less drivetrain loss.

But when doing a dyno run, you are in one gear (4th) which has close to a 1:1 gearing ratio.

What the dyno doesn't tell you is shift speed, gearing advantage, keeping the turbo on boost between shifts, etc etc.

It's not too close to call.
There have been many people who raced auto vs manual, including me on several occasions, have yet to see a manual driven by anybody who has pulled on an auto when both cars have the same mods.

As Terry said though, on a road race course, the manual would be faster though and you can drop several gears at a time and keep the car in gear for as long as you want, where the auto will automatically upshift if you get to like 6900 rpms.

Autos have shortened the gap, but it still has a torque converter. A quick street race is not conclusive. I, for instance, shift very slow, so is it slow shifting? early gearing advantage of the auto? Too many variables and I honestly don't care. Terry is absolutely right though, you would have to drive a manual very hard to keep up with the auto,not something I would want to do to my 50k car.

[kenneth]

I have a manual and I don't care that autos may be a little faster off the line. What's important to me is that I enjoy every shift I make, and it's a blast because it is a lifetime of learning experience! My 2 Canadian cents. Voilà.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Auto's are quicker right now. As more products become available that'll probably change. The MT tranny is stronger so it'll handle more mods, while supposedly the AT tranny is pretty much at it's limits. That being said, its still really good.

[notires]

yea I'm more into racing that involves going in a straight line. I've heard that one ofthetrannys comes on the m6 is that right?

I've read up a bit and spent several hours just looking around but I'm looking for actual experiences comparing the two head to head.

are there any LSD upgrades available? maybe an LSD and dr's would help out on the 6mt as I can imagine that launching a high torque car with an open diff can be difficult

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

Autos have shortened the gap, but it still has a torque converter. A quick street race is not conclusive. I, for instance, shift very slow, so is it slow shifting? early gearing advantage of the auto? Too many variables and I honestly don't care. Terry is absolutely right though, you would have to drive a manual very hard to keep up with the auto,not something I would want to do to my 50k car.

It's not a "quick street race" that has made it conclusive.

It's MANY, MANY street races from varying starting speeds to up to 130+ mph.
Some starting in 1st, some in 2nd, some in 3rd.
Some starts from a stop.

It's several people doing MANY of these in different climates, different altitudes, different elevations.
The outcome is always the same... the autos winning.
Sure someday we might see one or two that have a manual winning.
But it would take a strong running manual with a great driver against a not so strong running auto to do so.

That's about as conclusive as you can get.

Oh, and btw, there are people willing to powershift the 335i and shift as fast as they can in the manuals. It still doesn't matter.
Even they have not won (or as far as I know even kept even) with an auto when the cars have the same mods, and the weights are similiar.

It's not biggie, you clearly have a manual, but some things are just pretty conclusive and factual after many many tests.
One of those is that the autos are a bit faster in a straight line than the manuals.