EVO M4 vs 911

[M3OW]

[ss134]

As expected, the 911 is always faster on a technical track- it really is a excellent sports car. On the street however this Carrera would be looking at 4 quad exhaust pipes.

[signes]

So the video to go with the article posted a few days ago. Surprising that the M4 is more nervous than the 911, times change quite a lot.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by ss134

As expected, the 911 is always faster on a technical track- it really is a excellent sports car. On the street however this Carrera would be looking at 4 quad exhaust pipes.

That track had longer turns that can carry more speed. Not sure what you mean by technical. The 911 was able to carry more speed through all types of turns.

[Black Gold]

great feedback. both cars got excellent marks

I am not at all surprised the PSS were nowhere near up to task. they heat up way too fast and get greasy and are useless on track once this happens. I hated them on track in my 997tt in the hot texas summer.

this car needs some real rubber for track work, not soft PSS. I would imagine the m4 would pick up a lot of time with a real extreme summer tire.

[onatuesday]

I'm curious what lap time the Cayman GTS would put down

[ManAndMachine]

Power in nothing without control.The m4 took a big L in the compare for sure.

[jc05e46m3]

Crazy how much more composed the 911 was. Definitely held speed much better. Now I would like to see the M4 with some wider rubber in the rear for comparison purposes.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Crazy how much more composed the 911 was. Definitely held speed much better. Now I would like to see the M4 with some wider rubber in the rear for comparison purposes.

M4 will need coil overs and track spec rubber to beat the 350hp 285tq bug

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

M4 will need coil overs and track spec rubber to beat the 350hp 285tq bug

I don't think so. I get 295 or 305 RS-3 would be fine.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I don't think so. I get 295 or 305 RS-3 would be fine.

Stickier tires may bring the lap time down but the added grip will only enhance the chassis instability.The chassis will need to be lower and stiffer to keep up with the added grip,hence he coilovers.

[jc05e46m3]

I don't know if that's true. These cars are pretty stiff in stock form. I bet with tires alone, the m4 could be a good match.

FWIW, I didn't watch the video with sound, just a couple seconds here at work

[JPBesl]

Validating my comments in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1010483

Franchitti describes the PDK upshifts as lazy. As I drive, I'm seeing more and more how quickly DSG upshifts are compared to the PDK.

That said, I'm also finding myself scared of the throttle. I know I just need to get used to the car. But coming from the 991, where I could plant my foot down in most corners and rocket out, it's weird being so tentative in the M4.

I can't wait for some colder weather, however, so I can practice some sliding without destroying my tires. I've let the back end slightly go a few times since I got the car, and I feel it's somewhere between my old E92 M3 and my 991 in terms of progressiveness, but I am soooo not ready to really explore that side of things yet.

The increased weight compared to the 991 is starting to shrink on me a bit though - like wearing in a shoe.

New car, new education, increased humbleness.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by JPBesl

Validating my comments in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1010483

Franchitti describes the PDK upshifts as lazy. As I drive, I'm seeing more and more how quickly DSG upshifts are compared to the PDK.

That said, I'm also finding myself scared of the throttle. I know I just need to get used to the car. But coming from the 991, where I could plant my foot down in most corners and rocket out, it's weird being so tentative in the M4.

I can't wait for some colder weather, however, so I can practice some sliding without destroying my tires. I've let the back end slightly go a few times since I got the car, and I feel it's somewhere between my old E92 M3 and my 991 in terms of progressiveness, but I am soooo not ready to really explore that side of things yet.

The increased weight compared to the 991 is starting to shrink on me a bit though - like wearing in a shoe.

New car, new education, increased humbleness.

Yes mdct is far better on upshifts than Porsches Pdk. I've been saying this for years. There's not a better double clutch transmission on the market short of a few super cars.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by M3OW

That track had longer turns that can carry more speed. Not sure what you mean by technical. The 911 was able to carry more speed through all types of turns.

Anglesey has a lot of unorthodox cambers and elevation changes, many of it's corners which look to be fairly simple and fast are not, the 911 as you stated carried more speed through all of the turns where the M4 was upset by the camber changes the 911 remained composed. On a flat fast track the M4 would have done better, but the difference in chassis and grip was highlighted here.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by ss134

Anglesey has a lot of unorthodox cambers and elevation changes, many of it's corners which look to be fairly simple and fast are not, the 911 as you stated carried more speed through all of the turns where the M4 was upset by the camber changes the 911 remained composed. On a flat fast track the M4 would have done better, but the difference in chassis and grip was highlighted here.

Fair enough, though it would be nice to see any data to show the m4 being faster on any type of track besides the nurburgring. So far I haven't seen any yet.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by M3OW

Fair enough, though it would be nice to see any data to show the m4 being faster on any type of track besides the nurburgring. So far I haven't seen any yet.

I don't know if it would be faster but the faster the track is the better the M4 would fare I would imagine.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I don't know if that's true. These cars are pretty stiff in stock form. I bet with tires alone, the m4 could be a good match.

FWIW, I didn't watch the video with sound, just a couple seconds here at work

These cars are no gt3's they are comfy daily drivers.The suspension has been optimized ti the grip of the stock tires.Anytime you add significant grip you have to address the weaknesses of the stock suspension.This isn't something I came up with,it's a proven fact that can be backed up with multiple tuners on this forum and various members that track their cars,including me.Of course you can just add tires and go faster,but it does not mean you just improved center of gravity,reduced body roll and the stock dampers can keep up with the added grip.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by ss134

I don't know if it would be faster but the faster the track is the better the M4 would fare I would imagine.

I don't think so,the faster the track the more heat the tires will generate,and fall off even quicker.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by ss134

I don't know if it would be faster but the faster the track is the better the M4 would fare I would imagine.

As others have said the 911 has a tremendous advantage for many reasons.

1. Rear weight bias gives much better traction
2. The 911 was born a sports cars not a sports sedan
3. Weight
4. Brakes

If there was a way to put the power to the ground more efficiently in the m4 it would really be hard to beat.

[2Late]

The 911 is a better all around sports car with 75 less hp and 119 less tq it still out performs the bmw. The m3/m4 is much more of a compromise. I view it more as a sports sedan, an improved 335/435 with upgraded suspension and a great engine thats still good for picking up the kids and a loaf of bread on the way home hence the focus on comfort mode

I had a 911 and there was never a doubt I was in a pure sports car. I have a few months until my m3 comes in so I'll hold out my thoughts on it. I am very disappointed that in all the videos I see the bmw's seem to have a real problem with traction. I understand the tremendous torque that it puts out but I don't understand why the engineers didn't compensate for this with the wheel/tires and suspension. The car appears overpowered. The chassis cannot handle the tq effectively.

I'm not down on the bmw or I wouldn't have purchased one, but I'm not oblivious to it's shortcomings. Most vehicles are a compromise.

[fusionchicken]

I like the hyper responsiveness of the M4's throttle / gearbox. That kinda stuff translates into a really fun street car.