[bwrlane]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/v...st-saloon-face

[Billy Cheeseman]

very interesting indeed - that o - 100 sprint was way closer than I would have guessed

interesting that the M car is seen as the more exciting but the D3 is the car you probably want to drive all day every day

confirms my own suspicion that my 330d is a great all-rounder and probably faster in the real world against its petrol equivalent - unless you are on a track etc etc

Alpina should feel proud at what they have achieved there

[Nick the Greek]

Very good piece of kit that Alpina.
Even better as a petrol B3!

[Cootie]

Haven't watched it yet but pretty certain I'd go for the D3 - my mate's D5 is seriously impressive and reckon as a day to day driver this would be better than the M3 95% of the time.

[jezm3]

Originally Posted by bwrlane

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/v...st-saloon-face

That's going to put a few peoples noses out of joint on here .
They already think diesel is the fuel of satan

[Alkidrew]

The M3 sounds like a motorbike!

[Ads4]

The D3 is such an incredible car for people who do mileage yet want a performance car. There is no way I can afford an M3's petrol prices, however much I want one, doing 4k miles a month. The D3 therefore becomes my M3 option. So pleased Alpina make cats like this, I may well have one someday!

[Billy Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by jezm3

That's going to put a few peoples noses out of joint on here .
They already think diesel is the fuel of satan

absolutely..........the petrol vs diesel debate with only inflame once again LOL...........however, in the real world and on normal roads, you simply cannot argue with that big wave of torque!!!!!!!!!

[SkyJawa]

V interesting!!!

BMW in next M car to be derv powered shocker!!

[bwrlane]

What was interesting was that the D3 seemed to win on every test except 0-100mph. It was faster round the track. It was sweeter handling. All his comments were: yes the M3 is good but the D3 is better. And yet in his summary, it was basically: it's a draw, take your pick. The summary didn't match the content.

[Billy Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by bwrlane

What was interesting was that the D3 seemed to win on every test except 0-100mph. It was faster round the track. It was sweeter handling. All his comments were: yes the M3 is good but the D3 is better. And yet in his summary, it was basically: it's a draw, take your pick. The summary didn't match the content.

probably because he couldn't actually believe what he was saying!!!!!!!!! LOL..... I bet he started off thinking it was foregone conclusion but was probably genuinely surprised just how good the Alpina was...........as with everything in life, it is horses for courses and buyers will buy what they like

if I had the choice I would go with the Alpina all day long - bring on the torque!!!!!!!

[gtsussex]

But haven't we all been saying this (those that have now driven the M3/4 who own 330/335's)?

Very interesting video as this has been going through my mind rather a lot recently. I've now driven the M3 in the wet but just been too damn busy to post anything up about it. This is what I really wanted to do. I'd tried it in the dry (my original post) but with our dear country under water for a large amount of the year, this was going to be more enlightening - this has to be my daily drive. I was passing a dealer I used to buy from before Chandlers and as weather wasn't brilliant thought it a perfect opportunity - they kindly let me out for a couple of hours. I was expecting it to be fun but it's fun for a while and then actually a bit annoying. So keen is the torque to break the traction, it's a bit of a pain. I suddenly became VERY conscious of what I was doing and that everyone was staring at me in complete contempt.

So let's start with nanny DSC. It is laughable - it gives you absolutely no play whatsoever (I was gobsmaked how it cut in) and you end up with a Focus right on your arse giving chase wondering if you're taking the piss. In fact that was one part of the experience I didn't enjoy - bejeesus everyone wants to race you and those that don't are looking for you to put a foot wrong.

Back to driving, you need to go into MDM mode before you have any say in anything. You sDrive chappies know how easy it is to shake your bottom in your cars in the wet - well the M3 takes this to a new level and I don't think that wallop of torque is actually very helpful. Now you could argue it's its raison d'etre and I suppose it is. You could argue that I'm very used to my 4wd tractor where traction is not so much of an issue (actually it's rather easier than you'd imagine to get out of shape in Sport + in the wet - I liken it to driving a 330/335i sDrive in the dry). I actually prefer the E92 M3 in the wet - that lack of torque actually makes progress much easier.

The noise is a very subjective thing. To be fair to BMW in Comfort it's a lot quieter so you don't have to listen to it all the time but as Pablo said, I can't help but feel that its voice is probably good enough with enhancement. The sense of vocal occasion just isn't the same as a E92 V8 but then it's quite relaxing on a cruise. I'd love to try an M4 Conv with a sports exhaust so you could actually hear what's happening. Thing is I actually don't mind my 335d noise (whatever people think it sounds like!).

This time I got out of the car completely underwhelmed. That chassis and steering tightness is something to behold but that really is it. In the big scheme of things, it gobbles fuel at twice the rate of my car (30mpg - hah!), everyone wants to try and race you, Plod would consider you fair game and when it's slippy, either you leave it with DSC on and accept that you have little access to the oomph or you switch to MDM and then have to concentrate. You could say that's fun and it is some of the time but I can't help but think I'd rather use that extra £20k over my car to just go and buy another Caterham. I also have a real issue with something costing this much having the quality of interior the M3/4 has - a 5 series of half the price has it beaten which kind of puts things in proportion. The extended leather should at least be standard.

I got back in my car and yes the steering felt dull, the brakes didn't have as much feel and the chassis felt sloppy but do you know what? A day later and I was once more very happy with my car and it felt okay again. Today I've done 250 miles with a mixture of Mways with ACC taking the strain and a spirited cross country dash across West Sussex - all returning 43.8mpg. I struggle to think of anything I actually rather have done it in and it's been dry today. Throw in rainy days and it's a no brainer. Then chuck in the discounts we have all got on our cars and suddenly do you what, I think my car actually looks like the bargain of the century (disclaimer - all things being relative).

I genuinely never thought I'd ever say this - I'd rather take my car over an M3 for my 30k a year wagon. Would I take a D3 over mine? Ooooh, now that's a close one and I'd need to drive the D3 in the wet again. In the dry I was hugely impressed with it but then my car was standard at that point so who wouldn't be? But of course finances have to also come into things and discount on it was laughable, as was finance rates - ended up in M3 money once you'd added options.

As for the video, we all know Sutters has been in love with the D3 since it came out. I do laugh as yet again he commented on the quality of the (cough) higher quality leather - what, you mean the Dakota leather seats? Hmmmm.. I'd actually say that the M3 seats are trimmed so much better (and actually it's one thing that did stand out for me for doing the miles - their comfort and support are really very good indeed). But I think he's right - the D3 is the real world better proposition.

For me though I'd have to throw a 3rd car into the mix, being my own. I think I'd actually rather trade some handling finesse and have my all weather debadged repmobile instead over the D3.

It's all been very enlightening and for once I'm smiling out the other side.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Great write up ( not quoting it all lol)

I think that's the key, how much more would people pay for that 'bit' more power and pretty much the same interior.

I forget what your spec is guy, however, imagine 335d acs spring, power upgrade, exhaust, BMW individual interior and some performance parts.

Then add that in to the review, head to head mix.

I have not yet a good review of the 335d and a round the track bit, did EVO ever do one?

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Great write up ( not quoting it all lol)

I think that's the key, how much more would people pay for that 'bit' more power and pretty much the same interior.

I forget what your spec is guy, however, imagine 335d acs spring, power upgrade, exhaust, BMW individual interior and some performance parts.

Then add that in to the review, head to head mix.

I have not yet a good review of the 335d and a round the track bit, did EVO ever do one?

No exhaust upgrade and I've now gone off that idea - whilst I love the twin pipe look of the 335i, I love my anonymity too much. No performance parts - again whilst I actually think they look the doggies doodahs, I like looking as boring as possible. Would have loved a full leather dash/doors and would have happily paid for it could I have ordered at time. So normal Coral Red buffalo hide for me

My dosh has been spent on go and not show but I completely understand (and am a little jealous looking at photos) of those that do the other way round.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by jezm3

That's going to put a few peoples noses out of joint on here .
They already think diesel is the fuel of satan

The D3 is a very very capable real world car of no doubt and I have already pretty much stated I won't be buying an M3 but nose out of joint? Why? It's very much a pays yer money takes yer choice really. There is 9/10ths of sweet F.A between them.

But personally I wouldn't care if a diesel version was twice the speed off the lights than a petrol version, I utterly dislike the diesel drive (Yes I had a E92 330D) compared to the petrol drive and that is what some people fail to realise: It's not just about numbers for everybody, for some of us it is also very much about how a car makes you feel (Unless it's a shopping cart).

[Tengocity]

It's an interesting video, and at least Sutters is open minded enough to admit that it comes down to what you are looking for. I do think that the M3 and D3 have differnet drivers and markets in mind- not saying that the same person wouldn't be interested in both, more that they compete against different non-BMW alternatives. The D3 is meant to be a refined and very fast road car, the M3 is a Motorsport minded road and track car.

I do think that there are some issues with the comparison though:

Interior quality - Alpina have several levels of leather quality, yet he talks about it as if it was standard, which isn't the case. You pay a fortune for the special leather and even more to have it on other surfaces! It also sounds like Alpina put a bit more sound proofing in their cars too... which is in keeping with it's remit... Journos can't moan about cars getting too heavy (the M3 in particular) and then complain that the M3 is too noisy!

The braking test - One stop from high speed is only part of the braking performance. Repeat that test 10 times in quick succession and then see which one stops quicker!

The 0-100 test is very interesting though, given that the M3 is timed to do that in less than 9 seconds, the Alpina somewhere between 10 and 11... looked a lot closer than that

@GTSussex Have you had a chance to get the VBox on yours since theACS chip was fitted? Your car should be putting out at least what the Alpina does, though being xdrive will probably be a little slower than the Alpina in the dry, once above 30mph

[bwrlane]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

The braking test - One stop from high speed is only part of the braking performance. Repeat that test 10 times in quick succession and then see which one stops quicker!

You spotted the brakes on the M3? Gold = ceramic. The £7,000 option. That is as good as it gets on the M3, yet the Alpina still wins.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

But personally I wouldn't care if a diesel version was twice the speed off the lights than a petrol version, I utterly dislike the diesel drive (Yes I had a E92 330D) compared to the petrol drive and that is what some people fail to realise: It's not just about numbers for everybody, for some of us it is also very much about how a car makes you feel (Unless it's a shopping cart).

Completely agree. I also dont buy an expensive car on what the numbers say, how it makes you feel is more of a major factor.

I used to have a 335d a few years ago and my dealer loaned me a 330i (N53) manual whilst mine went in for some work.

Yes the 335d was much better on fuel and its way quicker BUT the 330i felt far more special to drive, much more of an occasion. For pure driving, 330i wins every time.

Just a shame the MPG was low.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by bwrlane

You spotted the brakes on the M3? Gold = ceramic. The £7,000 option. That is as good as it gets on the M3, yet the Alpina still wins.

I think you'll find the tyres have more of an influence than type of brakes on stopping distances when doing a single stop.

[jezm3]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

The D3 is a very very capable real world car of no doubt and I have already pretty much stated I won't be buying an M3 but nose out of joint? Why? It's very much a pays yer money takes yer choice really. There is 9/10ths of sweet F.A between them.

But personally I wouldn't care if a diesel version was twice the speed off the lights than a petrol version, I utterly dislike the diesel drive (Yes I had a E92 330D) compared to the petrol drive and that is what some people fail to realise: It's not just about numbers for everybody, for some of us it is also very much about how a car makes you feel (Unless it's a shopping cart).

Pablo as my user name suggests I've owned my fair share of m3s every variant in fact apart from e30 also an rs4 and various other v8s and for that 5% of the time when there on full chat and you've found some other geezer with a like mind in a comparable motor there fantastic but after a while it still gets a bit thin refuelling twice as often

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by E60525d

I think you'll find the tyres have more of an influence than type of brakes on stopping distances when doing a single stop.

Absolutely! The real value in the carbon ceramics is how they manage heat such that the can do repeated big stops, or constant use that you get on a track.

And they're lighter so less unsprung weight too.

[gtsussex]

The petrol/diesel debate is really an aside to this for me. 18 months ago I had 3 V8 cars, two of them with supercharger and the other with a turbo. Would I choose petrol over diesel if money no object? Of course I would. Every time I got in any of them , I chuckled when I started them (well except the 750 as it was a bit quiet like!).

I quite enjoy the saving we make now. Doing over 50k a year across 3 cars where average consumption was 18mpg was painful. So there you go, I'm a petrol lover at heart.

Why am I saying this? Because you might think I would take my car because it's diesel. Nope, I'd love an excuse to get back into petrol but this M3's not it. It needs to be more special to get me in it. Then I'm happy to live with the compromises for 80% of my truggery to enjoy that 20% of moments of fun and enjoyment, even paying out a premium.

I just walked away thinking it wasn't worth it (and I'd had thought the same had I had a 335i). It just didn't make me giggle when I started it. As said M4 Conv (which the wife has decided upon) with sports exhaust might well be another matter....

So Pablo, we're not that different after all. I drive with the devil not out of choice and looks like I'll be running this old chugger into the ground