[bmw0bsession]

Who here, like me, put a deposit down for a VTT N55 Stage 2 JB? I put my deposit down in March and a month ago I was told it would be ready in about 2 weeks but a few days ago I got an email telling me the following after asking for an update;

"We have had a major snag on these turbos, the machined housings we received back did not come out right, and we cannot move forward with sending these out, it looks like it is going to be a while until we can get them redone. So there are 3 options, apply your deposit to a stage 1 turbo which we have in stock and can ship in 2-3 days, apply it to a DBB Stage 2 which are not in stock and will prob be another 60 days, or you can wait until we can get the Stage 2 JB's option ready right now we have no ETA."

Does not seem fair to me and now my Deposit is being held because it is "non-refundable". It is not my fault the housings were machined wrong if this is the case, I am a customer and they should fix the issue to make sure we get our product in time. I did not go for the DBB upgrade because it is out of my budget range and the Stage 1 is totally pointless for me. If you are looking to upgrade your N55, I suggest you wait or go a different route. If you decide to buy from VTT do not pay any kind of money unless he has a complete product ready to ship. I hope I can get my deposit back because not being refunded on a product I was expecting that now has no ETA is basically a Scam.

[Jgabucc1]

Originally Posted by bmw0bsession

Who here, like me, put a deposit down for a VTT N55 Stage 2 JB? I put my deposit down in March and a month ago I was told it would be ready in about 2 weeks but a few days ago I got an email telling me the following after asking for an update;

"We have had a major snag on these turbos, the machined housings we received back did not come out right, and we cannot move forward with sending these out, it looks like it is going to be a while until we can get them redone. So there are 3 options, apply your deposit to a stage 1 turbo which we have in stock and can ship in 2-3 days, apply it to a DBB Stage 2 which are not in stock and will prob be another 60 days, or you can wait until we can get the Stage 2 JB's option ready right now we have no ETA."

Does not seem fair to me and now my Deposit is being held because it is "non-refundable". It is not my fault the housings were machined wrong if this is the case, I am a customer and they should fix the issue to make sure we get our product in time. I did not go for the DBB upgrade because it is out of my budget range and the Stage 1 is totally pointless for me. If you are looking to upgrade your N55, I suggest you wait or go a different route. If you decide to buy from VTT do not pay any kind of money unless he has a complete product ready to ship. I hope I can get my deposit back because not being refunded on a product I was expecting that now has no ETA is basically a Scam.

Waiting since March? Wow... Not your problem number 1 and your money should be refunded if thats what you want.

[335iFFM]

Yep. I've written with Tony back and forth. He didn't want to drop the deposit so I went for PureTurbos. His way of doing business is just ridiculous.

On german part of this forum he sold 6+ Stg2 Batch2 N54 Upgrades. ALL OF THEM WERE LEAKING. They were all Bad and all had the same oil leakage Problem. After discussing for MONTH he had to admit that these turbos were just crap and now he produces a Batch3 which SHOULD be better. I've read nothing about this on american Forums. Reason is that YOU guys aren't talking about these Kind of problems and if you do it's so aggressive that an admin deletes it.

I would never buy from Vargas.

Just my 2 cents

[Sfvalley135i]

wow! Thanks for the update, pretty sad to get this update from YOU and not from Vargas themselves!

This shows what type of operation Tony runs, takes deposits, promises a date, (always) fails to meet ETA, then most importantly never updates his customers.

I understand issues arise during manufacturing, but it seems like these issues always plague Vargas products and not any other vendor.

[Infamy]

Man this guy just kills his own business. RB turbos FTW

[bmw0bsession]

Originally Posted by Infamy

Man this guy just kills his own business. RB turbos FTW

Wish RB would make a Turbo =[

[derryck]

How did you fund the deposit? I would think there would be some avenue to apply some pressure. I very briefly considered going with Vargas Stg 2s before getting my RBs and it didn't take much research to convince me to go the RB route and I have been quite happy. Rob's support after install was outstanding and I would highly recommend RB if it's an option.

[bmw0bsession]

Originally Posted by derryck

How did you fund the deposit? I would think there would be some avenue to apply some pressure. I very briefly considered going with Vargas Stg 2s before getting my RBs and it didn't take much research to convince me to go the RB route and I have been quite happy. Rob's support after install was outstanding and I would highly recommend RB if it's an option.

Already filed dispute with Credit Card company and they are working on getting my funds back. I paid through Paypal via my Credit card so they are being extremely helpful.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by 335coupe2007

I put him in the duke dynamic category.

Duke Dynamics got me my rear diffuser in 2 months :P

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Customer has been emailed and options given, that he chose to bring it here is his choice. When we posted Stage 2 JB's were going to be produced we made it very clear we had no real ETA, at that point we invested quite a bit of money in cores and started on production of these and stage 1's. Stage 1's came back fine and are now in stock and shipping, the machine work on stage 2 was not up to the level we like to see, thus we decided to put them on hold until we can get the issue taken care of. Things like this are never something you plan on, nor see coming, but they happen. Our plate is so full right now after the issue arose we have put these on the back burner until we can get some time to deal with it. The customer was informed with putting his deposit down which was 25% that it was non-refundable, since the issue arose, we have offered him credit towards any product he wishes including stage 1 N55, and we also offered him $500 off the DBB N55 (his deposit was only $700 so we basically offered him almost his entire deposit in a discount towards the more expensive product as well as full credit for the deposit) which would bring the different between the JB and DBB to $700, also not just limited to N55 products, he could choose from any product. We sent that response to him last week. Since then we have not heard back from the customer and now we find these posts. Everything was made very clear and very upfront, every invoice in big bold letters states deposit is non-refundable, the original thread states it is non-refundable and states we made no promises of delivery times. We refuse to ship an inferior product just because someone had their build scheduled and it is an inconvenience to them. We will 100% be producing the N55 JB turbo upgrades, but with our plate being as full as it is and the issue with the improper machine work, we are putting it on the back burner for a couple months. The customer has 3 options in front of him at this moment, a stage 1, a DBB stage 2, or wait for the JB's to be done, his deposit will never expire. We told him this and instead of handling it with us, he chose to bring the issue here, so we have no choice but to respond here as well. Thanks VTT

Edit: Customer was sent email on Friday 7/11/14 with his options, he never responded and instead made these posts. If need be we can post the email for proof he was not ignored and was offered 3 options.

[CombatNinja]

Ban Vargas.

[JETmn]

Wow, that is some BS. So you expect him to wait 2 years for a turbo and keep his money until then? He has already waited 4 MONTHS. I think that is already pretty patient. The stage 2 DBB at a discount is a nice gesture, but it evidently didn't satisfy him. You need to take care of the customer. If he wants a refund because you can't deliver a product, then that is what you need to do. It isn't his fault the product is put on the back burner, it is yours. I have been in customer service/tech support management for many years.

[Nismo G]

I can understand both sides of the story. First side, you're the customer, so they should be giving you more options than just applying your deposit to their products. Second side, from a company standpoint they are making sure you receive a quality product. I would rather see them disclose that there is an issue with the product and that they are fixing it over shipping me a product that will fail and causing an even bigger problem (you spending time and money to install and now uninstall because of a faulty product).

Sorry to hear about it though. I would be upset as well.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

We appreciate all your opinions but a policy is a policy and it was made clear from the start. I am not sure what the issue is here, the original post not only states a non-refundable deposit will be required, it also states we do not expect to be able to ship any JB upgrades at least 3-5 months. It has been exactly 3months and 5 days ordered on 4/9/14, there is a good possibly we will have this issue resolved in 2 months, meaning we will still be delivering on on estimate. We have not changed anything, we have said anything we did not stick to, we have done exactly as our post states to the letter, the customer is upset because he had a build planned and this issue is throwing off his timeline, understandable but we will not ship something we do not stand behind because someone is in a hurry. We made it very clear JB's were 3-5 months off, if the customer wishes to email us directly we will discuss this further, we will not be conducting anymore of this discussion on the public forum.

From the original post, please feel free to go take a look at it.

""As far as shipping times. We are about 60-90 days from being able to ship limited quantities of Stage 1, and 90-150 days from shipping our Stage 2 JB upgrades. We will also have roughly 7 Stage 2 DBB upgrades back in stock in 60-90 days as well. We will be opening up a waiting list for people who want to get in on the limited quantities of the upgrades. First come first serve to hold a spot.

Thank you in advance for any inquiries, please direct any and all questions to Sales@vargasturbo.com and we will explain all details do not send PM's here. A small non-refundable deposit will apply strictly to keep people from holding a spot and decided they do want the upgrade down the line." "

[bmw0bsession]

We are handling this in private now guys, the intention was never to get into a quarrel with Vargas Turbo, it was to make sure everyone in the community was informed about the turbos being on hold since no updates have been made and was sharing my personal experience. If you guys want to follow the responses you can follow the link otherwise we are no longer going to discuss this in public.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25848

[bad karma]

Vargas, a deposit doesn't become "non-refundable" just because you call it that. The purpose of non-refundable deposits, or "earnest money", is to demonstrate that a buyer has a stake in procuring the product or service. If you as the seller fail to uphold your end of the agreement by not providing that product or service in a timely manner, nor offering a refund of the earnest money, at best you are demonstrating remarkably poor business acumen, and more than likely setting yourself up to be sued for non-performance. Case law has consistently ruled in the buyer's favor in instances like this. Though most of my research has centered around real-estate law, it's the same principle with fewer zeros in the numbers.

You promised the guy a turbo. It sucks for you that your product arrived from the manufacturer with defects, but that is between you and the manufacturer. In that situation the customer should immediately get a pleasant email that states that you're incredibly sorry for the delay, that you have a solid timeline for delivering the product, and that you'd be happy to refund the deposit given the circumstances.

You don't get to tell him to wait an indiscriminate amount of time for the product you promised him because its "on your back burner". Having owned a small business, and having dealt with logistical issues and manufacturing issues on my own products, customers who have pre-paid go to the very front of the line when it comes time to make things right. That shit isn't on the back burner. It's on the front burner and the pot is boiling over.

BMW0bession was right to bring the issue into quite literally the public forum, because while I don't have a horse in the race, it sure seems based on other users' experiences that this isn't your first rodeo when it comes to unexpected delays. You've now been forced to address the customer's claims and grievances publicly, and as a result the effects of your actions will have far broader consequences than if this was brought up privately. You can choose to promptly and amicably refund him his money for the product you seem disinterested in delivering, or you can continue to dig your own grave.

BMW0bsession, I'd look at your options for filing a charge-back with your credit card company.

EDIT: Removed some harsh language

[JETmn]

If you gave him 90-150 days then you should have an ETA of 60 days or less. You have said you put it on the back burner and you are not even looking at it. I would find it hard to believe that you can ship a finished product in under 60 days if you aren't even working on it...

On the flip side I do agree with you not shipping out a bad product. The only issue was a set of improperly machined wheels? I would think that would be easy enough to fix, I would be all over my vendor telling him to replace his faulty wheels if that was the case. Why would you put it on the back burner for just a set of bad wheels? That seems odd.

[Sfvalley135i]

Vargas is full of bs, if there was a issue in manufacturing why didn't he post a message on the forum to inform people? Why didn't he email his customers that are waiting this product?

I've come to believe, Vargas takes deposits to fund other projects... Once the protype of the new product is created he then goes back to fulfill the original orders... It seems like all his projects hit a snag, except for his stage 1 upgrade.

I'm surprised he hasn't learned his lesson since this has occurred before. Why does he sell products if he has no clue when they will be completed, then he's expects to keep the customers money until HE chooses when to finish building the item you purchased.

I know he pulled this non refundable deposit crap with the stage 3 turbo customers over a year ago, but did he or did he not refund them?

[snaimpally]

While I understand the OP's frustration, if VTT's terms and conditions were correctly stated as indicated, then OP was on notice that the deposit was non-refundable and the approximate time it would take.

If there is a problem, it is always better to let the vendor know and allow them an opportunity to address the issue. Only if the problem can't be resolved, should this be posted on the forums.

[FriedPiston]

Seems to me that the vendor is at fault here. Any reputable vendor on this forum would've made an exception to return the non-refundable deposit due to lack of product availability.

The customer made a deposit for product A, but his deposit is being held hostage until product A is available and is offered product B and C as an alternative. Bait and switch much?

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by narstune

Seems to me that the vendor is at fault here. Any reputable vendor on this forum would've made an exception to return the non-refundable deposit due to lack of product availability.

The customer made a deposit for product A, but his deposit is being held hostage until product A is available and is offered product B and C as an alternative. Bait and switch much?

The product is not scheduled to be delivered for another 2 months time, but the customer is demanding a refund now. He understood the policy and he understood the time frame. He has been refunded his deposit minus a 25% cancellation fee for cancelling his order when the delivery time frame is still quite a ways out. This matter is concluded.

[TurboBimmer]

Wow, more of this Vargas BS. Quite unbelievable. It's really a shame because ON PAPER the products have potential.