[drp087]

Originally Posted by drp087

Just another long term update on my thoughts for the Valvetronic after about a month.

1. Over time the exhaust has become a little louder than at first (20%?). At first, with the valves closed, Coldstart and immediate takeoff was much more manageable than the Remus, but now it seems to have become very similar, if not louder. During city driving, Valves open does have more throatier sound down low, but also results in some unpleasant sounds up top. One of my main reasons on keeping the Valvetronic was since it sounded more refined, but now it has become very similar. I really think a resonator somewhere will clean up the sounds.

2. Visuals- I did get a CF diffuser, and looks MUCH more in line with the tips- I think this is a must for this exhaust. Also, as another member pointed out earlier, there are slight differences in angles from left and right. As this system has the single midpipe that goes to the right side, it is very secure on the right, but the left is hanging all by just a rubber mount, making it sag just a bit more. You need to accommodate it by raising the tip angle up. Not really noticeable when the car is on the ground, but just something to note.

That all being said, this is really making me think the Remus Sport with HFC IS the ultimate setup for a DD.... time for round 4?? lol

Just to correct myself, I thought it had gotten louder over time, but after some testing it was actually the valve actuator that stayed open during starting- no clue why but over time it fixed itself. It is definitely quieter than the Remus Race during coldstart.

[Threnody]

After picking up the titanium version of this exhaust back in November, I was able to finally get it installed today. Here is my experience:

- Old: Stock DP // AA Resonated EL Midpipe // Remus Sport Catback
- New: Stock DP // Titanium Valvetronic EL System

I liked the AA / Remus setup, but never really loved it. Some days I hated it and its quirks. I never liked how it sounded at startup and found it embarrassing at times. The transition in tone around 3k RPM wasn't super pleasant. The flat tone it gave when lifting off throttle was unflattering. It was still great compared to the stock system, but there were definitely more than a few days where I wanted to do something different. Overall I felt it didn't really suit the car, or my impression of what the car should be.

I was pretty concerned that moving to a more aggressive setup was going to end up being a bad move, that I'd introduce rasp that so many folks complain about by removing resonators from the path, that it would be too obnoxiously loud, that I was moving to a more expensive setup that I wouldn't be able to hear in person, let alone pay extra for a material that I definitely wouldn't be able to find anywhere around me to listen to before committing...

Well, I'm pretty thrilled with how it turned out Day 1.

- Tone is singular / consistent throughout the rev range. There's still a shift at 3k RPM, but it just seems like a change in volume as opposed to the unpleasant tonal shift I experienced with the old setup. The tone sounds clean / clear by comparison to the somewhat muted tone I got out of the AA / Remus combo.

- Valves Closed seems quieter, smoother, and more consistent than the old system, much more OEM-like, which I'm a big fan of. The car still sounds good with the valves closed, which is not something I could say with the old system. The best I'll give the old system is that it wasn't particularly notable one way or the other.

- Valves Open is pretty awesome. The volume and rowdiness is right at the edge of what I would want in a street car. It doesn't feel overbearing compared to the setup I moved from, which was a big concern for me going from a resonated system to this. At steady speed it's actually fairly similar to the AA // Remus combo, but there's much more character to every little thing you do. Definitely deeper / more growl in the < 3k range. Basically, I feel like I could drive around town in a civilized manner with the valves open and not feel like a tool. It's very easy to cross that line though.

- Once you're over 4k RPM I find the overall sound and tonal progression to be similar to my old setup, which is great; that was where it sounded its best. I don't feel like I've lost any of the benefits of the EL setup moving to this system.

- Startup sounds good! It is loud; very similar to my recollection of hearing the MPerf exhaust startup when I was initially shopping for my car, definitely has a bit of risk of tripping alarms on other cars that are too close. It doesn't have the 1-2 minute warmup that I so dreaded on the AA // Remus setup, which is a huge improvement.

- I didn't do the install myself, but warned my installer about the issues others had with the exhaust tips sticking out way too far. Fortunately we did not have an issue on that point. No cutting was necessary to get a fitment with the tips sticking out just a little bit. I think the only issue they hit was a missing exhaust hangar just before the rear diff, which we weren't 100% certain whether that was intentional or not considering the differences to other M2C exhaust systems.

- There is a bit of muffler underhang, which is a ding compared to the Remus catback, which had none. It's not bad compared to the stock and MPerf mufflers. My issue is less that there's underhang and more that it's not perfectly centered or level across. At the end of the day I don't feel like I need to do anything about it compared to how I felt about the stock muffler, and I'm guessing that after changing to a more aggressive CF diffuser, it will barely be noticeable.

- We also installed a CG Precision VSC-2 valve controller at the same time. The controller works just fine with this setup, and I think with a system like this that varies so heavily depending on whether the valves are open or closed, the control you get is absolutely worth the install. This also fixed another issue I had, which was the valve behavior on downshifts in Sport / Sport+. That's not really an issue with the outgoing system so much as it is with BMW's stock programming, but the ability to force valves open without having to pull a questionable fuse or deal with BimmerLink's 10 minute reversion timeout is great. Highly recommend.

My only concerns so far are cosmetic, and I don't think any of it isn't remediable. As others have noted, the left exhaust piping coming off the muffler is wonky and needs some adjustment to appear level with the right side. The clamps are really obvious when you're looking at the back of the car and should be positioned to minimize their visibility. A carbon fiber diffuser is definitely going to be needed to unify the look.

I'm going to be keeping a close eye on this over the next few months as the system breaks in. My experience looks like it's mostly mirrored drp087's first impression post from 11/15, which makes me wary that I'm going to hit some of the changes in opinion they had with their system, but for the moment I'm a pretty happy camper with this, and I think the Valvetronic system much better fits the character of the M2C than any other exhaust setups I've tried so far.

Would I get the system in Titanium again? I don't know. That was really more of a decision of curiosity than anything. I'm a big fan of how the car sounds at the moment, but without a car with the Steel system to drive and compare back-to-back, I would assume I'd have been just as happy with Steel and with the extra money in my bank account. At least now I don't have to wonder if the car would sound better with a Ti system like the MPerf or Akra systems. That and the 20lbs saved are worth something I suppose.

I don't think I'll be able to put a video together for this; partly because I don't have the setup for it, and partly because I don't really feel like a video does it justice. I spent a lot of time checking out videos of the M3 / M4 equivalents to this exhaust system, and while they generally give a good impression, there's definitely something important lost in the translation from real life to video.

I didn't have the chance to hear this system IRL before taking the plunge. Fortunately I feel it worked out in my favor this time. For anyone in the Seattle metro, if you're thinking about this and you're on the fence, I'd be happy to meet up so you have a chance to make an informed decision.

I hope that helps someone. I'll try to post again once I've put some real miles on it.

[drp087]

Wow good to have another member try it out, especially the Titanium version!

Funny enough, I couldn't get over my curiosity of the Remus Sport + AA EL Resonated combo. I really couldn't find any videos of this setup's at WOT, and thought it might just be the sweet spot as a baby Remus Race. It's been on the car for a couple weeks now, and I am holding off on a review until the initial impressions wear off.

As you mentioned above I also got a valve controller (SST) on order to have more flexibility with the sound.

The Titanium was an option as well, but I'm surprised you didn't have any issues with the tips sticking out too far. With the SS version, even the 1.5" cut at the tips was not enough to get it fully flush, especially since it tends to expand more than the Remus.

I figured the Ti would be even harder to cut clean, but maybe their design was different from the beginning? Do you have any photos?

[Threnody]

Happy to post some photos. Agreed, I'm not 100% certain why my experience would have been different regarding the tips. Could be a manufacturing difference between the SS and Ti setups. We were all quite thrilled that no one needed to bust out a sawzall.

Since I missed this point in my initial post, another quick note:
- Haven't found any drone anywhere in rev range w/ valves open or closed
- No weird resonance anywhere in the rev range either

[drp087]

Interesting- it does look more flush than the SS when I first installed it. But I personally like it much more flush, like the outer tips more in than the inner tips, and following the angle of the diffuser- Even the 1.5" cuts were not enough to achieve this, and like you I had the driver's side hang lower. You can remedy it by angling it more, but then again, the Left and Right tips are now at different angles.

I might be trying out different alternatives, cutting other pieces, using different exhaust hangers, etc. Just wish they released this in perfect fitment like the Remus!

[Threnody]

I think for perfectly flush tips you're correct and some cutting would still be necessary regardless of which material you have.

100% agree that the Remus catbacks are top-notch from an aesthetics perspective; letting that go was difficult. I think where I'm landing on this system at the moment is that I'm willing to just accept the imperfections in how it looks since I know I'll never be able to adjust it to where I'm as happy with that aspect of it as with what it replaced. I feel like the return on how it sounds more than offsets that.

I guess that's just the nature of the exhaust journey overall. There are always some tradeoffs, every system is making some sacrifice: It doesn't look quite right. It's too loud. It's not loud enough. It doesn't sound good in this scenario. It causes weird vibrations and rattles. Etc. etc. etc...

I'm hopeful that this is the last exhaust change I make to this car. It's certainly helping me feel like each occasion to drive is that much more special at the moment. We'll see if that sticks as the system breaks in.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Threnody

I'm hopeful that this is the last exhaust change I make to this car. It's certainly helping me feel like each occasion to drive is that much more special at the moment. We'll see if that sticks as the system breaks in.

Keep us updated

[goforwand]

Originally Posted by Threnody

My only concerns so far are cosmetic, and I don't think any of it isn't remediable. As others have noted, the left exhaust piping coming off the muffler is wonky and needs some adjustment to appear level with the right side. The clamps are really obvious when you're looking at the back of the car and should be positioned to minimize their visibility.

Great review!

The picture you have of the exhaust on an angle like that would drive me nuts LOL! If it were a race car, could care less given the weight savings, but for the street not sure if I could handle it

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by goforwand

Great review!

The picture you have of the exhaust on an angle like that would drive me nuts LOL! If it were a race car, could care less given the weight savings, but for the street not sure if I could handle it

Not sure i follow, which picture and why would is it bothering you?

[MooMooM2]

I mean its a poor fitting exhaust, we have all established this here already.

[Threnody]

To circle back on this now that I've had the exhaust on for a while, and to make sure I'm being transparent about the experience.

First, I still think the sound is about as good as we get on this platform. It definitely does change a bit through break-in as has been discussed a bit already, and time with the system does expose a few weak points. There's a very, very short drone around 1k rpm that I generally only experience during cold start when revs start to come down and normalize. Not an issue during driving.

Coldstart with the valves open is dumb from the inside of the car. It's overly loud, it shakes the car, and it doesn't sound particularly great. That said, it actually sounds pretty good from outside the car; go figure. I was at my dealer recently getting an oil change, and got to hear my car start up vs. a stock G80, and hearing those startups back-to-back really makes it stand out how poor the stock systems sound.

Closing valves for startup fixes most of the above issue, but that brings up what I think is the biggest issue with this system, which is the exhaust valve. drp087 and I have chatted on and off about this, and I'll let them speak to their own experience, but the valve rattles an unacceptable amount when it's closed; it's completely unreasonable during startup, and while it does ease up afterwards, you can still hear it with windows down when you punch the accelerator. I've gone through a fair number of videos and support documents on how to resolve this, and need to get back under the car to attempt to retension the valve actuator again, but I consider the rattling valve to be far more annoying than the loudness of the system with the valves open, so I rarely find myself closing the valves.

The looks are an interesting point. I think I've developed a bit of Stockholm Syndrome to justify my own purchase here, because while I'd prefer something cleaner, I've actually grown to like the looks of the system a bit. It tickles the same part of my brain as seeing an aftermarket exhaust on anything JDM from the 90s or early 00s. I do think it looks better in person than my pictures, but if you care strongly about symmetry and visual presentation, I don't think there's any fixing the fundamental issues with how it looks.

I don't think my opinion has changed. I don't regret buying it, and if I was on the hunt for an exhaust with what I know now, the only difference I think I'd make is maybe going for the stainless steel version rather than the titanium. The difference between those is still an unknown for me. But for what I was looking to achieve, the system met my expectations in spades, and my only real problem with it is that rattling valve, which I think is totally fixable... even if that means removing the valve

[mike@x-ph.com]

Thank you for the honest review

[Kid Eh]

Originally Posted by Threnody

To circle back on this now that I've had the exhaust on for a while, and to make sure I'm being transparent about the experience.

First, I still think the sound is about as good as we get on this platform. It definitely does change a bit through break-in as has been discussed a bit already, and time with the system does expose a few weak points. There's a very, very short drone around 1k rpm that I generally only experience during cold start when revs start to come down and normalize. Not an issue during driving.

Coldstart with the valves open is dumb from the inside of the car. It's overly loud, it shakes the car, and it doesn't sound particularly great. That said, it actually sounds pretty good from outside the car; go figure. I was at my dealer recently getting an oil change, and got to hear my car start up vs. a stock G80, and hearing those startups back-to-back really makes it stand out how poor the stock systems sound.

Closing valves for startup fixes most of the above issue, but that brings up what I think is the biggest issue with this system, which is the exhaust valve. drp087 and I have chatted on and off about this, and I'll let them speak to their own experience, but the valve rattles an unacceptable amount when it's closed; it's completely unreasonable during startup, and while it does ease up afterwards, you can still hear it with windows down when you punch the accelerator. I've gone through a fair number of videos and support documents on how to resolve this, and need to get back under the car to attempt to retension the valve actuator again, [...]

Hey man can you check your inbox please? Thank you.

[drp087]

To add some additional insight on the valve rattling:

The common issue of valve rattling (Not just Valvetronic but any exhaust valve) lies in the spring connecting the actuator to the valve that:
1. Breaks or gets dislodged
2. Loses A) Rotational tension or B) Spring Compression between the valve and actuator.

I started developing some rattling in my Valvetronic exhaust valve, and originally thought it was #2 above. It would only happen during coldstarts, and lasted about 4-8 seconds- driving was perfectly fine. I reached out to Valvetronic and they sent me different springs to try out. After multiple tests, I concluded that it was NOT the springs, but the fact that I had an external valve controller that forced Closed the valves.

The F87C startup sequence opens the valves for 1 second and closes, even in Efficient Mode, and I had started using my valve controller to force close the valve even during that first second, and this caused the rattles over time. What made it harder to replicate was the fact that it needed to be started in this Force Closed setting 3-4 times for the rattles to come on. Honestly cannot comment how this works, but my best guess is that the car senses this and increases exhaust flow, which just tips the valve beyond its ability to stay still and vibrates, causing the rattle for a few seconds.

I reverted back to the OEM valve connection without the external controller, and I had no issues with rattling. I would say if you plan to get the Valvetronic Exhaust, either stick with no valve controller, or have coldstart delete. You can also try their in-house valve controller that includes their own actuator.

After getting the rattling resolved, I had the hardest time deciding whether to keep this setup or go to the quiet Remus Sport. The Valvetronic Exhaust sounded so aggressive yet clean, unheard of from a S55, and it really was a love-hate relationship since I was one of the guinea pigs for this new exhaust.

In the end, almost turning 40 and getting married soon, I figured it was time to go the more subtle route with the Remus Sport.

I have the Valvetronic for Sale in Member Classified for anyone that wants an already modified exhaust. Boxed, ready to ship, and ready to be bolted on. I think this of the best sounding setups if you are looking for that hooligan M2 with valves open, while staying under the radar with valves closed.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2094393