Rod Bearings?? Questions and Information

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

So I did not bite the dust no! However, I am trying to know when, how, what...

I've read a lot that cars with 30k miles are failing, some others are failing at 100k miles, and others are failing at 200k miles. Is there any rule behind it? mine has 37k miles (61k kms) and I really am not planning to have a major break down just yet!

Excuse me if I sound like a n00b but I really want to get as much information as I can regarding the Rod Bearing issue that seems to be the phobia of every S65 owner.

I'd like to know how to detect if there's any failure or any possible symptom as well as what could be to prevent it from happening and if it going to happen in the first place?? Is it inevitable?

Your time and responses are highly appreciated!

[8k3]

Run outside and yell "I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

Do it

[regular guy]

This thread has more info on the topic than you'll ever want to know. It also provides a very reasonable explanation why some fail early, and others last a long time.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

[///M Power-Belgium]

We saw on here BF from 6k miles up to 100K and +
So BF built years from 2007 till 2013 (end of production)

About inevitable ?

1- Blackstone oil analysis and oil change every 5K .
2- Respect always cold start cycle ( Avoiding high rpm's when engine is cold)
3- Always open your ears .
4- Maybe we need...Good luck .

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

Originally Posted by 8k3

Run outside and yell "I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

Do it

Thought about doing so if I couldn't find a solution!

Originally Posted by regular guy

This thread has more info on the topic than you'll ever want to know. It also provides a very reasonable explanation why some fail early, and others last a long time.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

Thanks man, I'll definitely take a look at it!

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

We saw on here BF from 6k miles up to 100K and +
So BF built years from 2007 till 2013 (end of production)

About inevitable ?

1- Blackstone oil analysis and oil change every 5K .
2- Respect always cold start cycle ( Avoiding high rpm's when engine is cold)
3- Always open your ears .
4- Maybe we need...Good luck .

The Oil I use is Castrol TWS 10W60 and I do change it every 5-7k kms and I respect cold starts.

[8k3]

Rafik to be more serious. This topic is getting out if hand. Don't get nuts about it. Change the oil every 5k, listen to any abnormalities, and think about changing them around 70k

[SenorFunkyPants]

If you are tracking/drifting your car in a hot climate then you should seriously consider some heavy duty oil cooling - high rpms with very hot oil puts a considerable load on the rod bearing/crank oil film.

[Helmsman]

Good point Senor, and Rafik, as you seem to be into the drifting side of things...😊

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

Originally Posted by 8k3

Rafik to be more serious. This topic is getting out if hand. Don't get nuts about it. Change the oil every 5k, listen to any abnormalities, and think about changing them around 70k

I am trying not to over think about it but I keep seeing this topic on every forum so I guess I should be alert and aware. Now if I want to change them what parts should I go for and is there any aftermarket setup that is better than original?

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

If you are tracking/drifting your car in a hot climate then you should seriously consider some heavy duty oil cooling - high rpms with very hot oil puts a considerable load on the rod bearing/crank oil film.

I need more information sir. What can be done as a preventive action?

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Good point Senor, and Rafik, as you seem to be into the drifting side of things...😊

Yeah well I tend to drive the M3 as it is supposed to be driven.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by RAFiK

I need more information sir. What can be done as a preventive action?

Consider replacing the OEM oil cooler with a larger aftermarket oil cooler kit.
There is at least one vendor on M3post who manufactures/sells a kit.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Consider replacing the OEM oil cooler with a larger aftermarket oil cooler kit.
There is at least one vendor on M3post who manufactures/sells a kit.

I just installed that cooler and am now studying AIM data to see what temps I get. Last weekend the car did 8 sessions per day and reached 264F max. The ambient temps were not super hot yet though.

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Consider replacing the OEM oil cooler with a larger aftermarket oil cooler kit.
There is at least one vendor on M3post who manufactures/sells a kit.

Thank you very much!

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I just installed that cooler and am now studying AIM data to see what temps I get. Last weekend the car did 8 sessions per day and reached 264F max. The ambient temps were not super hot yet though.

What temps would the car reach on stock cooler? in other words is 264F a good temp compared to stock one?

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by RAFiK

So I did not bite the dust no! However, I am trying to know when, how, what...

I've read a lot that cars with 30k miles are failing, some others are failing at 100k miles, and others are failing at 200k miles. Is there any rule behind it? mine has 37k miles (61k kms) and I really am not planning to have a major break down just yet!

Excuse me if I sound like a n00b but I really want to get as much information as I can regarding the Rod Bearing issue that seems to be the phobia of every S65 owner.

I'd like to know how to detect if there's any failure or any possible symptom as well as what could be to prevent it from happening and if it going to happen in the first place?? Is it inevitable?

Your time and responses are highly appreciated!

Rafik,

It wouldnt hurt to get the rod bearings replaced with VAC Calico ones (which is what I am doing) and ARP bolts. Standard procedure, Ayham can do it.

A few of my racer friends (complete race cars not DE) have done this and have not heard of any issues.

Regarding cooling, get rid of coolant, run Water Wetter with distilled water. With my previous E36 Euro back in Dubai, I would track the day lights out of it without any issues.

Same with the E90. I have DCT and even in 100+ degree heat, car holds up and oil temps not getting past 3/4.

Good luck

Lutfy

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Rafik,

It wouldnt hurt to get the rod bearings replaced with VAC Calico ones (which is what I am doing) and ARP bolts. Standard procedure, Ayham can do it.

A few of my racer friends (complete race cars not DE) have done this and have not heard of any issues.

Regarding cooling, get rid of coolant, run Water Wetter with distilled water. With my previous E36 Euro back in Dubai, I would track the day lights out of it without any issues.

Same with the E90. I have DCT and even in 100+ degree heat, car holds up and oil temps not getting past 3/4.

Good luck

Lutfy

Hey Lutfy,

You know that I've got issues with Ayham and never going back there. I believe many as well are on the same page with me.

Regarding the bearings, I will consider VAC or WPC depends on what I find online. I am just trying to know what I am dealing with.

Thanks

[thekurgan]

Sell your car.

[8k3]

Originally Posted by RAFiK

I am trying not to over think about it but I keep seeing this topic on every forum so I guess I should be alert and aware. Now if I want to change them what parts should I go for and is there any aftermarket setup that is better than original?

DO NOT use calico coated bearings, they reduce tolerance. For now your best best are the WPC treated bearings until Regular Guy / Kawasaki release their new bearing they are working on with Clevite. It's not yet clear if ARP bolts are best either. If I were you, stick to BMW bolts, they have never failed in the field, have shown near perfect bearing eccentricity as well when the rod clamped.

[squartus]

Yep, go with the WPC treated bearings not coated ones. The WPC ones actually provide a tad more clearance and is not a coating, the coated ones provide less making the problem worse.
The ARP rod bolts are what a lot of people including myself went with, some new information has come out but its not clear if the new bolts are better or worse than OEM. ARP tighten down harder, from some engine break downs simply switching bolts removed what was serious bearing wear. But may distort bore due to increased torque specs.

[pbonsalb]

Actually, the new Clevite coated bearings sold by VAC are made so clearance is gained rather than lost. This is discussed in one of the bearing threads.

[squartus]

You mean the ones that will not be available for 4-5more months atleast? Im sure they will work well, just wont be on the market for a good while yet

[s85e90]

Overhyped issue that has scared every owner here into thinking bearings are a maintenance item. But let's just replace them with the same shit.... Not really a solution, just a band aid.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by squartus

You mean the ones that will not be available for 4-5more months atleast? Im sure they will work well, just wont be on the market for a good while yet

No I mean the Clevite coated bearings that VAC has already sold to people and that people are already installing.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by 8k3

DO NOT use calico coated bearings, they reduce tolerance. For now your best best are the WPC treated bearings until Regular Guy / Kawasaki release their new bearing they are working on with Clevite. It's not yet clear if ARP bolts are best either. If I were you, stick to BMW bolts, they have never failed in the field, have shown near perfect bearing eccentricity as well when the rod clamped.

Originally Posted by squartus

Yep, go with the WPC treated bearings not coated ones. The WPC ones actually provide a tad more clearance and is not a coating, the coated ones provide less making the problem worse.
The ARP rod bolts are what a lot of people including myself went with, some new information has come out but its not clear if the new bolts are better or worse than OEM. ARP tighten down harder, from some engine break downs simply switching bolts removed what was serious bearing wear. But may distort bore due to increased torque specs.

Both of these statements are somewhat incorrect. The VAC/Calico Bearings are not the 702/703 OEM bearings coated. They are a new set of bearings manufactured by Clevite for VAC that is then coated by Calico using their CT-1 process. They provide more clearance in comparison to stock or WPC treated bearings.

Eccentricity measures out well with the ARP hardware and falls within the correct range of desired values.