[Scubadriver]

After much research, I decided to go with Dinan Springs and Camber Plate. I did the install last weekend and got it aligned on Monday. Thanks, in particular, to 335sRus and RWalker for the advice on this project. I thought I would add a few details on how I did this, which might save folks a bit of time in the future.

For the rears, I follow the instruction that 335sRus referenced:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...3&d=1401934841


That all worked out pretty well. This guide led me astray on the fronts. Thankfully, I found the guidance of snodgrass23 in another thread. He threaded the springs in and out of the top of the strut tower…much easier:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16818777&postcount=12


Also, perhaps worth mentioning a few of the tools I purchased from Amazon for the job:

16mm Spark Plug Socket ($4.99) – for removal of rear shock top mount and removal of front push rod
http://www.amazon.com/Sunex-884504-8.../dp/B0074HNKI6

Spark Plug Socket Set ($11.07) – 18mm for removing OEM strut bearing nut, 3/4” (19mm) for installing Dinan strut bearing nut, reportedly the 5/8” socket might have worked in place of the 16mm socket:
http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640.../dp/B004QO9F0W

Extra Long Hex Bit Socket Set ($14.99) – for use with the spark plug sockets for removing the shock / strut support nuts. The first set I got was too long and they flexed too much in torsion. These are just the right length:
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko%C2%AE-10.../dp/B000IQNMQU

Strut Compressors ($37.99) – These worked well enough and were compact enough to work with inside the strut tower. It was a tight squeeze, resulting in some bruises on my arms:
http://www.amazon.com/ABN-MacPherson.../dp/B00SX5RSA4

Overall, less than $100 in tools and about 10 hours of satisfying, mostly frustration-free work saved me over a grand in labor. I kind of agree with 335sRus on difficulty of 4/10 or maybe 5/10. I’m pretty comfortable with tools. I don't do much wrenching on cars, but I used to do a bit on my motorcycles.


I went with the following compromise street / track alignment:

Front Camber -2.5 degrees
Front Toe in 1/16” total (1/32” each)

Rear Camber -2.0 degrees
Rear Toe In 1/8” total (1/16” each)

Attached are before and after alignments.

I’ll get to see how it does next weekend at the track.

[Scubadriver]

And here are some pictures...

Personally, I like the look of 1/2" drop in the front a bit more than the 1” drop in the back. I’ve been driving it for a week and definitely like the way it feels. It is definitely less floaty in comfort mode at highway speeds. Hopefully it will feel a bit more planted at the track too.

[Scubadriver]

Alas, the camber plates have the dreaded adjustable camber plate rattle, only noticeable at low speed over minor road imperfections that induce a slight suspension vibration / rattle. I went over the front suspension again. Nothing is loose. Hopefully it will not get worse...

But it definitely plants the front corner in turns. Looking forward to track day!

Note, even at -2.5 degrees camber, there's still a fair bit of adjustment left in the camber plates. Perhaps this is because the drop is contributing a bit of camber as well.

[Scubadriver]

The car is definitely begging for wider wheels and tires. Like a few folks on this board, I’m going to try to do 255/35 square.

There’s obviously lots of clearance at the front fender now. But I’m really surprised how little clearance there is between the front wheel and strut, just 9 – 10 mm with the stock 18x7.5 ET45 wheels, measured by sliding an Allen wrench between the wheel rim and strut. (You can also see it looking through the wheel.) I really don’t understand how others have been able to use an 18x8.5 ET42 (inner rim 10mm closer to strut) without the rim hitting the strut. There seems to be no hope of running a 9" wheel, which would probably be a bit more appropriate for 255 tires.

So, I’m leaning toward ordering a set of Forgestar F14 wheels in 18x8.5 ET48 along with a set of 12mm spacers for the front. This would have the following results:

Front: Tire 6mm closer to strut, 24mm further out. With -2.5 deg I think I have plenty of room to fender.

Rear: Tire 1mm closer to shock, 9mm further out. Seems similar to what others are doing with rear spacers. Of course there's a gigantic amount of room on the inside.

I would certainly appreciate feedback on this part of the plan. Though perhaps I should ask in wheels/tires...

[rwalker]

Glad to see you've got it sorted, and that the low speed clunking is not a figment of my imagination .

Looks really good, BTW.

One thing you might try (that is helping me, I think) is to add a nylon washer between the strut shank shoulder and the spherical bearing. 12mm ID, 1mm thick. Press it over the bulge in the stud with a 1/2" closed-end wrench. This serves to lessen the impact transmitted from the upward moving strut to the spherical bearing.

Originally Posted by foglesre

I really don’t understand how others have been able to use an 18x8.5 ET42 (inner rim 10mm closer to strut) without the rim hitting the strut.

Yeah, there's no way anyone has been able. For 18x8.5et45 to clear the strut you need at least a 3mm spacer.

I run
street: 255/35r18 square MPSSs on 18x8.5et47 M441s with a 5mm spacer in front
track: 255/35r18 square RE-71Rs on 18x8.5et45 ARC-8s with a 5mm spacer in front

Originally Posted by foglesre

There seems to be no hope of running a 9" wheel, which would probably be a bit more appropriate for 255 tires.

Actually: you can run 18x9et36 up front... That'lll give you less than 1mm clearance to the strut, though... My old track setup:
square 255/35r18 Toyo Proxes R888s on 18x9et41 D-Force LTW5s with 5mm spacer in front

The above setups have absolutely minimal clearance to the strut, and absolutely require camber plates to clear the fender.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by foglesre

So, I’m leaning toward ordering a set of Forgestar F14 wheels in 18x8.5 ET48 along with a set of 12mm spacers for the front.

I would stay away from Forgestar. If you are going to track, consider APEX. I've heard of (and seen) too many accidents involving Forgestar wheels breaking. APEX (which I think both myself and rwalker use) are very strong, light, and cheap. They don't look super awesome (gotta save money somewhere), but they work, and won't break the bank.

Also, That alignment looks good, but do you have a limited slip differential? I found that when I got camber plates and dialed in some front camber (before I got my diff), the car became very difficult to control at times due to the rear breaking traction before the front. This problem is greatly mitigated (read: resolved) with a locking diff.

[Scubadriver]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Glad to see you've got it sorted, and that the low speed clunking is not a figment of my imagination .

Looks really good, BTW.

One thing you might try (that is helping me, I think) is to add a nylon washer between the strut shank shoulder and the spherical bearing. 12mm ID, 1mm thick. Press it over the bulge in the stud with a 1/2" closed-end wrench. This serves to lessen the impact transmitted from the upward moving strut to the spherical bearing.

That's a really interesting idea. Makes a lot of sense. Any advice on where you got the nylon washer you used? OD?

Originally Posted by rwalker

Yeah, there's no way anyone has been able. For 18x8.5et45 to clear the strut you need at least a 3mm spacer.

I run
street: 255/35r18 square MPSSs on 18x8.5et47 M441s with a 5mm spacer in front
track: 255/35r18 square RE-71Rs on 18x8.5et45 ARC-8s with a 5mm spacer in front

That's really interesting. I have less than 10mm between the rim and the strut on the right side (just over 10mm on the left). Theoretically, an 18x8.5ET40 would put the rim within 1 mm. I guess there's a few mm variation car to car? Or perhaps our 18x7.5 wheel is just a bit wide and the Apex 18x8.5 is a bit narrow?

Thanks again for all the help.

[Scubadriver]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I would stay away from Forgestar. If you are going to track, consider APEX. I've heard of (and seen) too many accidents involving Forgestar wheels breaking. APEX (which I think both myself and rwalker use) are very strong, light, and cheap. They don't look super awesome (gotta save money somewhere), but they work, and won't break the bank.

I've looked hard at APEX, and if they had more options on offset it would be a no brainer. Per my comments in the previous post, I'm a bit nervous about interference of the wheel with the strut with an EC-7 or ARC-8 18x8.5ET45 with 5mm spacer. Not to mention the fact that APEX has almost nothing in stock.

Back to the drawing board...

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Also, That alignment looks good, but do you have a limited slip differential? I found that when I got camber plates and dialed in some front camber (before I got my diff), the car became very difficult to control at times due to the rear breaking traction before the front. This problem is greatly mitigated (read: resolved) with a locking diff.

Yes, I do. I got the BMW limited slip differential port installed when I bought the car back in November 2014. I just started tracking the car a few months ago so now I'm finally starting to use it.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by foglesre

That's a really interesting idea. Makes a lot of sense. Any advice on where you got the nylon washer you used? OD?

I got mine at the local Ace Hardware. OD is 16mm, maybe more. Same OD as the strut shank, basically.

Originally Posted by foglesre

That's really interesting. I have less than 10mm between the rim and the strut on the right side (just over 10mm on the left). Theoretically, an 18x8.5ET40 would put the rim within 1 mm. I guess there's a few mm variation car to car? Or perhaps our 18x7.5 wheel is just a bit wide and the Apex 18x8.5 is a bit narrow?

Those are all reasonable possibilities, I think.

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by foglesre

I've looked hard at APEX, and if they had more options on offset it would be a no brainer. Per my comments in the previous post, I'm a bit nervous about interference of the wheel with the strut with an EC-7 or ARC-8 18x8.5ET45 with 5mm spacer. Not to mention the fact that APEX has almost nothing in stock.

Back to the drawing board...



Yes, I do. I got the BMW limited slip differential port installed when I bought the car back in November 2014. I just started tracking the car a few months ago so now I'm finally starting to use it.

The ARC8 18x8.5 ET38 might bet the wheel you're looking for.

[AKPAB]

Pursuant to my quest for camber, I made a decision and ordered and installed the Dinan camber plates. I simply could not wait until July for Vorshlag. I may end up getting their plates, but for the time being, I needed something. I tried to find a nylon washer, but couldn't find them, so the plates were installed without. I'll learn to live with the potential noise, I guess.

For autocross, I am using a square setup with APEX ARC-8. 18x8.5 ET45 with 245/35/18 Hoosier A7. Stock springs/struts. Had to use a 12 mm spacer up front, as the inboard side of the Hoosier is only 3 mm from the strut. I am using a 5 mm spacer in the rear. I am also using the 75 mm APEX stud kit.

Alignment specs are as follows: -2.5 camber front, 0 toe. -2.0 camber rear, 1/16 toe in each side. There still appears to be some wiggle room, I could probably get to -2.8 or 2.9 up front, if necessary.

So far I haven't even driven on the Hoosiers, so I don't have any idea how they are. There is a local autocross on Sunday, then a Pro Solo two weeks later. I am scheduled to participate in both, will post results and commentary if anyone cares, lol.

[rwalker]

Sweet setup, sounds like those 245 Hoosiers run really wide, approximately 7mm wider than my 255/35r18 RE-71Rs...

[Scubadriver]

Originally Posted by AKPAB

I tried to find a nylon washer, but couldn't find them, so the plates were installed without. I'll learn to live with the potential noise, I guess

Interested to hear what you experience is with NVH. This rattle is driving me nuts. Will try the washer trick in a couple weekends.

I took my car to the track (Texas World Speedway) last weekend. And the final result--exactly the same lap times. Hard to compare conditions. Also it was my first drives solo.

The car definitely feels very different though. With the springs, the car rolls less through a couple of tight turn sequences. Also the car feels much more composed across a transition from the banked front straight into turn 1. I felt much more comfortable carrying speed into that transition.

With regard to camber, the car is very clearly understeering less. It is definitely more willing to rotate in turns. I think I need to get more comfortable taking advantage of this to find the speed that it offers. Note I am still on stock tires.

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by foglesre

Interested to hear what you experience is with NVH. This rattle is driving me nuts. Will try the washer trick in a couple weekends.

I took my car to the track (Texas World Speedway) last weekend. And the final result--exactly the same lap times. Hard to compare conditions. Also it was my first drives solo.

The car definitely feels very different though. With the springs, the car rolls less through a couple of tight turn sequences. Also the car feels much more composed across a transition from the banked front straight into turn 1. I felt much more comfortable carrying speed into that transition.

With regard to camber, the car is very clearly understeering less. It is definitely more willing to rotate in turns. I think I need to get more comfortable taking advantage of this to find the speed that it offers. Note I am still on stock tires.

Just throwing a data point out here, I tried the Dinan plates and experienced the low speed rattle that is being discussed. Dinan has been very supportive and is working with me to try and solve the issue. It would be interesting to know how many people have tried these and how many people have the noise. I will update as I get information from Dinan. The plates that I have are intended for our F30 335i MSport.

Incidentally, I had the exact same noise when I tried plates from another manufacturer last fall. My comments here are not meant to talk down on anyone. This is a difficult problem to solve with an adjustable camber plate and I, for one, am glad that we have manufacturers working to get the community parts.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by foglesre

Interested to hear what you experience is with NVH. This rattle is driving me nuts. Will try the washer trick in a couple weekends.

I think you can skip the washer trick unless you're just itching to wrench . I'm running them and the noise is slowly coming back.

I think the washers may have helped initially and may have delayed onset, but they're not a real solution.

[casper83]

Just installed my camber plates this weekend and they have a significant rattle. I e-mailed Dinan, no response as of yet.

Thanks to several of you guys for sharing info on the board for this install. I wish I would have read a little bit closer. Getting the spreader tool would have been much better than trying to jam a screwdriver into the knuckle (strut connection to knuckle).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1UMBRA5ZTBCX8

It’s definitely worth investing in the socket to properly torque the nuts. I think rwalker previously posted this:

https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...ket/ES2652174/

In the picture below you can see I used a crowfoot. Big PITA.

To remove and put nuts back on (before torqueing) I used an air ratchet with pass through (bottom picture). I love this tool. It makes the job way faster and easier.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...et-wrench-kits

[N55guy]

Glad my post helped you at least a little. I think maybe I had less trouble with the front since I had some experience taking the struts out on my e90 when I did the coilovers.

Looks great!

[AKPAB]

Originally Posted by foglesre

Interested to hear what you experience is with NVH. This rattle is driving me nuts. Will try the washer trick in a couple weekends.

I took my car to the track (Texas World Speedway) last weekend. And the final result--exactly the same lap times. Hard to compare conditions. Also it was my first drives solo.

The car definitely feels very different though. With the springs, the car rolls less through a couple of tight turn sequences. Also the car feels much more composed across a transition from the banked front straight into turn 1. I felt much more comfortable carrying speed into that transition.

With regard to camber, the car is very clearly understeering less. It is definitely more willing to rotate in turns. I think I need to get more comfortable taking advantage of this to find the speed that it offers. Note I am still on stock tires.

I heard the rattle this morning. My commute is very short, less than 4 miles each way, and the street surfaces are generally quite good. At one patched area, I picked up the rattle. It required the radio to be off to be heard. Once I turned it on, I can't hear the rattle anymore. So far, I'm willing to live with it, given the improvement in turning behavior.

I have yet to really push the car, so maybe once there are serious stresses on the suspension, things might settle and shift. I'll know by the end of day Sunday, after I complete my first autocross with this setup.

[XutvJet]

I just want a little more camber up front to improve feel and grip, but the options to do that right now have their issues. Adjustable camber plates rattle (all of them) and M3/M4 LCAs create a wonky wheel to wheelwell alignment issue. I'm holding out for someone to make strut mount tophat that has an offset inwards strut hole, creating a degree or so of extra camber. I don't want or need any camber adjustability in my street car. I just want a little extra front camber.

Adjustable camber plates are great for track cars, but they suck for street cars if you cherish NVH.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

M3/M4 LCAs create a wonky wheel to wheelwell alignment issue.

The wheel placement issue has been addressed now:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1250352

[Pparana]

I am suprised dinan would release something half baked. I have not seen there plates in person but looking at the photos the problem seems to be the same one most manufactures have, that bearing/bushing is not large enough.

I run the kmak plates and the bushing is huge. No noise what so ever.
If you look at your stock plate it has a giant bushing pressed in between the metal.

If you hear noise, its not normal, something is out of design spec and will unfortunately only get worse.

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by Pparana

I am suprised dinan would release something half baked. I have not seen there plates in person but looking at the photos the problem seems to be the same one most manufactures have, that bearing/bushing is not large enough.

I run the kmak plates and the bushing is huge. No noise what so ever.
If you look at your stock plate it has a giant bushing pressed in between the metal.

If you hear noise, its not normal, something is out of design spec and will unfortunately only get worse.

It surprises me as well.

On your KMAC plates, I have a few questions for you:

1) Which ones do you have?
2) Do you have adaptive suspension on your car? The reason I ask is that I've seen KMAC camber plates for the F20 and F30 chassis on the Turner Motorsport web site, but they are listed as not compatible with the Adaptive M Suspension option code S2VFA. I haven't spoken to Turner about them yet, but with your experience, maybe it's time to make the call.
3) Where did you source them from?

Thanks in advance for your help!

John