Harman Kardon option - did anyone notice?

[Technic]

For quite some time BMW lists in its ETK (parts database in German) a "Bowers & Wilkins High End Sound System (S6F1A)" as an option in the F30 but I have never seen it being actually installed in any F30.

So maybe that will be the equivalent to the Individual Audio in the E9X M3 and the Bang & Olufsen in the F10 M5 for the F8X in next year builds.

[GregW / Oregon]

Here's the HK system info, assuming the M will have the same as standard F30/32, which I posted in another thread:



http://www.bmw.harmankardon.com/en/v...technical.aspx

Speakers for the BMW 4 Series Coupe
16 high-performance loudspeakers with optimum position in the car.

17 x 26 mm metal-matrix dome tweeters, dashboard, front, side & rear
22 x 217 mm woofers (central bass), below the front seats
37 x 100 mm ALumaprene midrange speakers, dashboard, front, side & rear

Amplifier -
Harman Kardon® Logic 7® DSP amplifier in Class-D technology with a total output of 600 watts

[Tonymiabmw]

Cool it's a under seat sub. Shoud sound good with sub upgrade. Like the e90 under the seat small earthquake sws for improved bass response.

[jml]

The HK in my E46 was not only shit, when I removed it to install something better (dynaudio, etc), what struck me was how crappy the drivers were. They could not have found cheaper quality components. The directive to the engineer was probably to find a way to make 98% profit from the upgrade.

The EPS system in the E90 (which I have now) is exactly the opposite. The drivers are very very high quality, more so than you would find in most high-end aftermarket halo products. What lets the EPS system down is the tuning - they tried to get too cute with it. Dirac is a EQ system, not an audio equipment company. It changes time/phase by frequency and attempts to play games to compensate for the cabin (for all passengers) at different ambient noise levels and speeds. It ends up being muddy sometimes (like when the HVAC system is on high), and the bass is tuned to be too neutral for any head thumpers out there. At the best of times it has a fantastic soundstage, amazing dynamics, and neutral sound. I added a couple Earthquake SVS drivers, outboard amp and crossover, and it massively improved things, though killed off some of the 120hz-200hz area. The EPS bass drivers were extremely robust (basically all magnet), making me think that they would would work better if you could override the tuning and given them more power. I think the ultimate solve would be to bypass the DIRAC tuning and use the EPS drivers with an outboard amp & traditional time domain EQ.

The F30 HK system is the same junk that is in the E46. The drivers are cheap (I've seen the front tweeter and mid from a recent install) and it sounds pretty bad relative to what someone who cares would hope that it is. I found it fatiguing and overly bright. So this time around in the F80M3, I will be ordering the base US audio and installing upgrades from Musicar. It's going to suck driving around europe during ED with base audio, but I'll get over it.

I don't understand why BMW went this route, I would have preferred that they offer a $2500 option that was pretty good so that I don't have to hack up the car and do it myself.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by jml

The HK in my E46 was not only shit, when I removed it to install something better (dynaudio, etc), what struck me was how crappy the drivers were. They could not have found cheaper quality components. The directive to the engineer was probably to find a way to make 98% profit from the upgrade.

The EPS system in the E90 (which I have now) is exactly the opposite. The drivers are very very high quality, more so than you would find in most high-end aftermarket halo products. What lets the EPS system down is the tuning - they tried to get too cute with it. Dirac is a EQ system, not an audio equipment company. It changes time/phase by frequency and attempts to play games to compensate for the cabin (for all passengers) at different ambient noise levels and speeds. It ends up being muddy sometimes (like when the HVAC system is on high), and the bass is tuned to be too neutral for any head thumpers out there. At the best of times it has a fantastic soundstage, amazing dynamics, and neutral sound. I added a couple Earthquake SVS drivers, outboard amp and crossover, and it massively improved things, though killed off some of the 120hz-200hz area. The EPS bass drivers were extremely robust (basically all magnet), making me think that they would would work better if you could override the tuning and given them more power. I think the ultimate solve would be to bypass the DIRAC tuning and use the EPS drivers with an outboard amp & traditional time domain EQ.

The F30 HK system is the same junk that is in the E46. The drivers are cheap (I've seen the front tweeter and mid from a recent install) and it sounds pretty bad relative to what someone who cares would hope that it is. I found it fatiguing and overly bright. So this time around in the F80M3, I will be ordering the base US audio and installing upgrades from Musicar. It's going to suck driving around europe during ED with base audio, but I'll get over it.

I don't understand why BMW went this route, I would have preferred that they offer a $2500 option that was pretty good so that I don't have to hack up the car and do it myself.

That sucks, I had a e46 as well and the HK was horrible. I may also do a third party.

[Tonymiabmw]

Musicars web site

"The BMW Premium Sound system is BMWs best offering – it was branded “Logic 7″ until the 2010 model year, when the branding was changed to “harman/kardon”. It sounds better than the HiFi system – its most glaring deficiency is that the low bass is lacking. The speakers are better made than in the HiFi system, but the power level and the crossover filtering are still insufficent for high-fidelity sound, and the speakers also seem to be less durable than the HiFi speakers based on owner reports. Some feel that the E82 version sounds notably better than the E9x Premium Sound, since the center speakers and additional rear/side effects speakers in the E9x Premium Sound system are not present in the E82 version.

The amplifier doesn’t have an analog input – the signal is derived from the MOST fiber-optic network in the car. This is what has made upgrades to this system more difficult than in other systems."

[jml]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

Musicars web site

"The BMW Premium Sound system is BMWs best offering – it was branded “Logic 7″ until the 2010 model year, when the branding was changed to “harman/kardon”. It sounds better than the HiFi system – its most glaring deficiency is that the low bass is lacking. The speakers are better made than in the HiFi system, but the power level and the crossover filtering are still insufficent for high-fidelity sound, and the speakers also seem to be less durable than the HiFi speakers based on owner reports. Some feel that the E82 version sounds notably better than the E9x Premium Sound, since the center speakers and additional rear/side effects speakers in the E9x Premium Sound system are not present in the E82 version.

The amplifier doesn’t have an analog input – the signal is derived from the MOST fiber-optic network in the car. This is what has made upgrades to this system more difficult than in other systems."

EPS (or individual audio) has nothing to do with the HK system, it was only offered on the M3. But both use fiber optic connections for audio signals, so a bit of a challenge to integrate with aftermarket unless you get serious.

[ChrisMT79]

Does anyone know the number of speakers the M3 HK surround sound will have in comparison to the 16- shown in the 4 series coupe (if in fact the M4 is the same)?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by jml

The HK in my E46 was not only shit, when I removed it to install something better (dynaudio, etc), what struck me was how crappy the drivers were. They could not have found cheaper quality components. The directive to the engineer was probably to find a way to make 98% profit from the upgrade.


The F30 HK system is the same junk that is in the E46. The drivers are cheap (I've seen the front tweeter and mid from a recent install) and it sounds pretty bad relative to what someone who cares would hope that it is. I found it fatiguing and overly bright. So this time around in the F80M3, I will be ordering the base US audio and installing upgrades from Musicar. It's going to suck driving around europe during ED with base audio, but I'll get over it.

f.

comparing the sound of the e46 hk, which I owned in my old m3, to the one in the new m3 is ridiculous.

ive heard both and there is zero comparison at all. the e46 system was legendarily bad, while to my ears, the HK in the new m3 sounds pretty good.

regardless of whether you like the new HK system or not, it doesn't sound anything like the old e46 setup in any way. that system was straight trash

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

comparing the sound of the e46 hk, which I owned in my old m3, to the one in the new m3 is ridiculous.

ive heard both and there is zero comparison at all. the e46 system was legendarily bad, while to my ears, the HK in the new m3 sounds pretty good.

regardless of whether you like the new HK system or not, it doesn't sound anything like the old e46 setup in any way. that system was straight trash

My e46 was horrible.

[LSM]

A little off topic but whats interesting is that the HK standard sound in M6 and B/O upgraded sound use the same amplifier. I had a car audio guy show me. He said the drivers are cheap. They use B/O speakers but same driver, he was upgrading someones sound system in M6 GC who already had the upgraded B/O sound system

[M2Crew]

EPS in the E92 M3 is one of the best stock systems I've ever heard. A truly quality setup. I hope the F80 HK can fill those large shoes.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by jml

I don't understand why BMW went this route, I would have preferred that they offer a $2500 option that was pretty good so that I don't have to hack up the car and do it myself.

I got to spend some time in the HK on an m5 and I can definitely tell a difference from my B&O but still not 4700 worth... I too think 2500 would be a sweet spot but honestly to get a non vibrating shit sounding m4/m3 I'd pay 4700 again lol.

[Lups]

Will it stand my school run?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by ChrisMT79

Does anyone know the number of speakers the M3 HK surround sound will have in comparison to the 16- shown in the 4 series coupe (if in fact the M4 is the same)?

It is the exact same system.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Technic

It is the exact same system.

Thats disappointing the Prem audio in the e92 m3 was a noticeable upgrade from the HK in my 09' 335i

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

Thats disappointing the Prem audio in the e92 m3 was a noticeable upgrade from the HK in my 09' 335i

The new HK in the F30/F80 is within 220W (600W vs 825W) of the old E9x EPS, with the same number (16) speakers (from 13) as well.

All that for less than 50% of the old price. I cannot label that as "disappointing"...

[Wah]

Do you think the F8x standard sound will be similar to the E9x standard sound? I didn't get EPS in my e92 M3, and I never really regretted not getting it for the $1900 they wanted for it. Not sure about the F8x HK, though, since its much cheaper.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Technic

The new HK in the F30/F80 is within 220W (600W vs 825W) of the old E9x EPS, with the same number (16) speakers (from 13) as well.

All that for less than 50% of the old price. I cannot label that as "disappointing"...

I agree.. But what is "disappointing" is that in their Flagship M series they opted to not offer us an upgrade over what the base 3's/4s have access too. Prem audio wasn't available to base model 3 series, and I would have liked to seen an equally exclusive option offered to this gens M's in the 3/4 range.

Originally Posted by Wah

Do you think the F8x standard sound will be similar to the E9x standard sound? I didn't get EPS in my e92 M3, and I never really regretted not getting it for the $1900 they wanted for it. Not sure about the F8x HK, though, since its much cheaper.

lol Then you'd probably be impressed by either the base setup and probably drooling over the HK... The base speakers in the e90s were absolute garbage (no offense as you clearly don't put the same level of emphasis on this as others, like myself).

[M3ryder55]

my standard sound system on the E90 M3 was the biggest piece of shit radio i've ever owned on any vehicle. i could carry on a conversation w/ passengers at full volume, on almost every song i played.. lets say all songs

i felt like there was an issue somewhere in my sound system.. like it was missing a left or right testicle, but every time i took it in to get inspected they came back w/ "its the quality of your audio recording", or everything seems fine. when i compared it w/ my friends standard 335i audio, there was clearly something wrong w/ my system/speakers

the S65 made up for it. going forward, i will GLADY pay that extra price for any upgraded sound.

[tisme]

I'm still curious about whether the Harmon Kardon in the F80 will be better than the Individual sound system I had in my E90. Oh well, I will know in 8 weeks and 4 days.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

I agree.. But what is "disappointing" is that in their Flagship M series they opted to not offer us an upgrade over what the base 3's/4s have access too. Prem audio wasn't available to base model 3 series, and I would have liked to seen an equally exclusive option offered to this gens M's in the 3/4 range.

EPS was available in the 3-Series via special order/Individual. As well as the HK in the E9x M3, just not advertised.

As stated before, a B&W system will be available in the F3x/F8x one of these days.