M3/M4 Residuals = 55/57/58

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Not necessarily if you track it. Also any type of overall damage repair is still owner's responsibility. To give you an example, a large rip in the standard leather will most likely cost half of that of the Merino in the M5's. A crack in the lcd will be the same. Anything in the M5 that has a cost will be a lot more than the M3. Check the insurance rates? For me its 1k vs 1.8k for 6 months. Its things like this and everyone knows it including BMW. M5s and M6s are exclusive cars and they depreciate big time. The 110k car will sell for 50k if you are lucky in 3-4 years. M3s have historically held their values more.

JMHO.

Good points. M5 is out of my price range anyway so I do't have to worry about it.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Not necessarily if you track it.

BMW replaced my M3's track-warped rotors 3 times under at no charge under maintenance/warranty plan. They were fully aware the car was tracked.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

BMW replaced my M3's track-warped rotors 3 times under at no charge under maintenance/warranty plan. They were fully aware the car was tracked.

You got pretty lucky then, the shop foreman showed me regular wear and tear guidelines effective 2014 and they actually have ranges for all maintenance items. If something does not fall into the range (i.e. if it says brakes should last between 20,000 miles to 40,000 miles and you go there after 5,000 miles), then your only course is to prove this was due to a defect in which case it becomes a warranty claim. They have gotten extremely strict about this and for a car like M5, I'd suspect they'd be even stricter.

[RealStig]

Anyways, back to this topic. Now I hope I was wrong and I hope we get those nice 62-64% residuals, but in the event that we don't, with the current money factors, I am actually getting a pretty bad monthly payment for this car, I don't know how it's going to make sense to lease one.

Please double check my math:

$75,000 MSRP
$75,000 Negotiated Price
58% Residual means car is worth $43,500 at the end of the lease
Money factor is 0.00078 with all MSDs which comes to %1.872 APR
%7.5 Sales Tax

Monthly payment 1037.44

Am I missing anything? If I pay taxes up front, it's $900/month.

[F9T]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Anyways, back to this topic. Now I hope I was wrong and I hope we get those nice 62-64% residuals, but in the event that we don't, with the current money factors, I am actually getting a pretty bad monthly payment for this car, I don't know how it's going to make sense to lease one.

Please double check my math:

$75,000 MSRP
$75,000 Negotiated Price
58% Residual means car is worth $43,500 at the end of the lease
Money factor is 0.00078 with all MSDs which comes to %1.872 APR
%7.5 Sales Tax

Monthly payment 1037.44

Am I missing anything? If I pay taxes up front, it's $900/month.

That looks about right to me. I used an online calculator and got around that amount. How do you know whether the dealer is giving you the lowest money factor and not adding to the buy rate?

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

That looks about right to me. I used an online calculator and got around that amount. How do you know whether the dealer is giving you the lowest money factor and not adding to the buy rate?

This is M5's money factor that's published everywhere. What I was told was not to expect a cent less than M5's current lease deal and I believe that. If it gets better, we'll come here and celebrate trust me, but it's better to expect the worst and hope for the best.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Not true. M5 uses 295 rears 275 fronts on a massive 20" wheel. M3 uses 265/245 on 19". For M5 you need 19" wheels with 265 tires for winter minimum whereas M3 can do it with 235s on 18" wheels. M3's winter setup costs around 1500, M5 is 2.5 times of that. M3 is still manageable by someone who is in upper middle class with "good" income. For M5, unless you are outright irresponsible, you need to be above middle class with money to burn. Everything in that car is extremely expensive from repairs to maintenance. The brake job alone is twice as much as expensive.

the m5 does not necessarily come with 20s unless you order it that way. and I seriously doubt that the wheels and tires cost 2.5 times as much unless you are buying BBS wheels for your winter wheels on the m5. blizzak winter tires in 265/35/19 are 225 per and in 245/40/18 are 205. not exactly 2.5 times more expensive.

why exactly does a brake job cost twice as much? the braking systems are identical, except the m5 has two more pistons on the front and rear.

I am not disagreeing with you that the m5 is more expensive overall, but I just do not like unsubstantiated claims and inaccurate information.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

the m5 does not necessarily come with 20s unless you order it that way.

why exactly does a brake job cost twice as much? the braking systems are identical, except the m5 has two more pistons on the front and rear.

I don't make the dealership's service pricing. I was looking into leasing an M5 until recently and I have had a lot of these conversations with my SA and CA, I'm only telling you what I'm told. If you were to do it yourself, it will most likely not cost twice as much, but it will still cost more. Anyways, listen, I don't want to go off topic here. It's okay to disagree. I'm actually very worried about these lease payments

[F9T]

I am expecting worse lease rates than the current M5 lease rates. I would like to pay $1k/month, but would not be surprised if I have to pay $1,200/month.

EDIT: My dealer seems to think that residuals will be higher for the M3 than they are for the M5, which would be nice. They expect the money factor to be about the same, but want to charge me a 40 basis points markup, which is obviously not nice. . Unfortunately, it's not like I can go to another dealer and get at the top of their list.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

I am expecting worse lease rates than the current M5 lease rates. I would like to pay $1k/month, but would not be surprised if I have to pay $1,200/month.

EDIT: My dealer seems to think that residuals will be higher for the M3 than they are for the M5, which would be nice. They expect the money factor to be about the same, but want to charge me a 40 basis points markup, which is obviously not nice. . Unfortunately, it's not like I can go to another dealer and get at the top of their list.

This is the problem with you guys in california. You are bound to get screwed like this, you have so many bad dealerships there and it's so hard to get a good deal on these cars. I had 3 dealers here who are charging no mark ups, no deposits, nothing. One of them (I'm not going to say which one) is ready to negotiate over a bit invoice. He did say I m not getting invoice pricing, but he is fine with not charging me MSRP either. I'd say keep shopping around. M3s are not like M5s, the exclusivity factor is not what it used to be 5-6 years ago (which is great!).

[F9T]

Originally Posted by RealStig

This is the problem with you guys in california. You are bound to get screwed like this, you have so many bad dealerships there and it's so hard to get a good deal on these cars. I had 3 dealers here who are charging no mark ups, no deposits, nothing. One of them (I'm not going to say which one) is ready to negotiate over a bit invoice. He did say I m not getting invoice pricing, but he is fine with not charging me MSRP either. I'd say keep shopping around. M3s are not like M5s, the exclusivity factor is not what it used to be 5-6 years ago (which is great!).

Well, I am at least getting MSRP and did not have to put down a deposit. It probably is not the best financial decision, but everyone has a long waiting list out here for the F80. I would get on the Steve Thomas list, but then I could be waiting an extra year before taking delivery. Plus, even Steve Thomas is charging MSRP. They probably wouldn't jack up the money factor, but I guess that's the price I have to pay for being an early adopter. It could be worse than a 40 basis points premium...

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

Well, I am at least getting MSRP and did not have to put down a deposit. It probably is not the best financial decision, but everyone has a long waiting list out here for the F80. I would get on the Steve Thomas list, but then I could be waiting an extra year before taking delivery. Plus, even Steve Thomas is charging MSRP. They probably wouldn't jack up the money factor, but I guess that's the price I have to pay for being an early adopter. It could be worse than a 40 basis points premium...

If this makes you happy, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. 40 basis points is about 30-35 bucks a month. That's how much I pay for gas for 2-3 days now Life is too short. Don't worry about it.

[F9T]

Originally Posted by RealStig

If this makes you happy, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. 40 basis points is about 30-35 bucks a month. That's how much I pay for gas for 2-3 days now Life is too short. Don't worry about it.

Haha, true. I didn't really expect to get better than MSRP being in Southern California. I just didn't realize I would also get gouged on the money factor.

[NewM3driver]

I've always rationalized that 600 bucks was what it would cost to drive any decent car. The extra 200-300 is my entertainment. I like cars, and I don't feel the least bit guilty about spending the extra money to love what I drive.

Now the dilemma: If the new M3 is going to lease out at 11 or 12 hundred dollars, you would have to seriously consider shopping a 991 porsche. I love BMW but lately they have been getting out of control with what is charged as an option, and what the options cost. Seriously, no standard back up camera on a 75K X5? Above the 1000 mark, i'm driving a Porsche.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

Now the dilemma: If the new M3 is going to lease out at 11 or 12 hundred dollars, you would have to seriously consider shopping a 991 porsche. I love BMW but lately they have been getting out of control with what is charged as an option, and what the options cost. Seriously, no standard back up camera on a 75K X5? Above the 1000 mark, i'm driving a Porsche.

Found this ad here right after I read your post. I don't believe it, but it's worth looking into!
2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe Lease Special
Customize Your 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe Lease
Payment : $946
More
Information and Features - 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe
Quick Quote
$4999 DOWN

$0 DOWN AVAILABLE
$65210 Residual

[RealStig]

5k down? Thats like 150/month. Never put money down on a lease.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by RealStig

That's because that's an M5. There is so few of them, I spoke to 4 dealerships over the course of almost all of past year (I was in the market for one at some point) and all 4 of them combined had sold 3 M5s past year in tri-state area.

Regardless of all of that, I guess my frustration is, it's not enough we get butt screwed with MSRP pricing and now we have to get screwed with residuals? It's like dual screw-up. Really disappointing

Yeah the M5 is exclusive, but an M3 isn't some 320i either...

For some perspective, these were the 2008MY rates for the newly introduced E90/E92 M. Check out that lovely MF!!! I imagine the current .0031 MF will remain close, but the residuals will be even lower for the F80/82:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...2008+residuals

[ridin135]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Found this ad here right after I read your post. I don't believe it, but it's worth looking into!
2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe Lease Special
Customize Your 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe Lease
Payment : $946
More
Information and Features - 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe
Quick Quote
$4999 DOWN

$0 DOWN AVAILABLE
$65210 Residual

You can get them much cheaper then that if you know how to deal.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by RealStig

5k down? Thats like 150/month. Never put money down on a lease.

I have not leased a car but dont they all normally require like 3-4k down? They do in the commercials!

[NewM3driver]

The new M3/M4 will be awesome.... but now you have to cross shop with the 991, and regardless of what we all think here (myself included) the porsche gets a lot more respect on the street. The 991 drive doesn't suck either, especially if you are looking to drive a stick.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I have not leased a car but dont they all normally require like 3-4k down? They do in the commercials!

No, leases don't require down payments. If you want, you can even roll your taxes into the lease and pay monthly and simply pay 0 dollars out of pocket when you take the keys (you obviously pay the first month's lease payment, but that's beside the point).

You should never ever put money down in a lease. It reduces the cost of the lease yes and maybe you will save barely 10-20 dollars a month on interest, but in the event the car is totaled, or you transfer the lease to someone else, or you want to get out of the lease, you lose all that money. It's not like financing where if you were to do any of those things, you could get some of it back.

The entire point of the lease to me is that you pay nothing out of pocket and pay absolutely bare minimum per month to drive a car headache free. All BMW lease payments have gap insurance in them so if the car is totaled, stolen, you walk away free.