03-09-2014, 04:23 AM | #67 | |
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The legal aspects you point out are real and well worth considering by anyone who is of a mind to buy such things. There's no question of the illegality associated with making and selling counterfeit watches. It is the legality of the matter that prevents me from specifically recommending anyone buy them, regardless of my insouciance about encountering them on folks' wrists. The only thought I can offer for consideration is that concerning the watch industry's opportunistic approach to taking action against companies that the authentic makers see as infringing on their duly earned trademark rights. I have seen only one instance where legitimate holders of trademarks bring suit against the most egregious violators of those rights.
That Bulgari brought suit in the US against primarily Chinese based offenders is what I'm getting at when I say the companies that own authentic trademarks don't seem to be doing more than making a token effort at defending their trademark rights. Don't make more of that than there actually is to it. As I understand it, one aspect of U.S. trademark law is that an owner of such rights must show a pattern of defending its rights. If a company like Bulgari or Rolex or IBM, for that matter, allows to go unaddressed too many affronts against its rights, the courts may opt to deny their claims of infringement. But filing a suit that is little more than a bunch of paperwork such as the one described above is sufficient to show a pattern of consistent defense of one's rights. Then one is on firmer footing when one finds a deep pocketed defendant. More often, one can find suits being brought against well funded Western companies. These lawsuits that AP brought are quite typical.
Swiss Watch International ![]() ![]() Tommy Hilfiger ![]() You can check out Audemars Piguet's website to see the full line of RO models, but here one. Now to my eye, even casually, the SWI and Tommy watches don't look enough like a Royal Oak to me that I would have ruled in AP's favor. IMO, there are far closer copies that don't even remotely pretend not to be replicas of the RO. And yet, the makers of those companies are out there thriving. ![]() As you may have seen earlier in this thread, I don't encourage ordering fakes over the Internet. Buying them specifically in the PRC is something of a different matter. The fact is that doing that there doesn't break any Chinese laws. Like it or not, we are all subject to the laws of the nation in which we find ourselves, unless one has diplomatic immunity. Bringing such items out of China is a different matter and one does so at one's own risk. As far as understanding why folks buy fakes, well there are some reasons that aren't hard to to grasp if one knows of them.
I'm aware of the slippery slope regarding ignoring laws, yet the matter of fake watches seems in terms of its scope and practical realities, to be yet another effectively "victimless" crime. I'm not particularly concerned about the existence and practice of the world's oldest profession any more than I am about fake watches on the wrist of the occasional fellow here and there. Indeed, my preference would be to find and implement ways to overcome the things that motivate folks to buy such things rather than to take with with the things themselves. All the best.
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03-09-2014, 04:24 AM | #68 |
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i don't have fake watches but don't care what other wear. i don't own top$$$ watches either as others have named some that i never heard of before. i just like my Fossil, Bulova's is my favorite and my BMW watch. there was a post of what we wear driving our cars. well i have lots of BMW motorsport from Puma. son in law works for Puma. hats, jackets, shorts. lots of shoes..... that what i wear for meets...hahahaha
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03-09-2014, 05:06 AM | #69 |
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I don't think Rolex have earned a right to charge $10,000 for a $1,000 watch they are simply charging what they can get away with - how much how Rolex watches gone up in recent years?.
Its no different than paying $2000 for a designer handbag made in some Asian sweatshop for $50. You are buying the right to ostentatiously display your wealth by owning an expensive object whose value is defined by a combination of letters engraved on it. If you owned a glorious piece of art for years and gained massive enjoyment from it and then found out it was a fake would you like it less? ie is the pleasure you get from owning something based on its intrinsic worth or its exclusivity and its monetary worth? I have to say I couldn't bring myself to pay $$big for a watch....I think it must be the Scottish in me. |
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03-09-2014, 05:19 AM | #70 | |
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No, I wouldn't like it less, but I would be pissed that I spent a ton of money on something that isn't what it purported to be. The only thing about fakes that bothers me has to do with a seller passing them of as authentic and charging me for the as such. A fake sold as a fake doesn't bother me in the least, aside from legal considerations. The Scottish in you: Don't tell the McGonigle Brothers how you feel. All the best.
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03-09-2014, 05:38 AM | #71 | |
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1/ Partly true, I bought a Panerai, a Rolex and the IWC to see which I liked best. I sold the Rolex cheap to someone who already had a real one and wanted it for a daily wearer. I gave the Panerai away to a friend who really liked it and I kept the IWC because I preferred the look. 2/ No 3/ Not really there are a million affordable watches that look good that I could buy. 4/ Yes maybe this. 5/ No. Relatively few people even know who IWC are or that they are expensive and no has as yet asked me or are likely to ask if my watch is real. Even in the days when I was earning mental money and my contemporaries were buying Rolexs or similar I stuck with a relatively cheap watch. I think my motive for buying a "fake" watch was to have a nice looking watch but was only prepared to pay what I thought it was was worth. In the end its all about worth. I spend a fortune on cars because of the pleasure I get from driving - I just don't get the same from owning a watch. |
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03-09-2014, 10:00 AM | #72 | |
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You don't think Rolex has earned the right to charge $10,000 for a watch so you buy counterfeits to fool people into believing that you paid $10,000 for a watch. Is that correct? There are plenty of watches that have a Rolex look that aren't counterfeit and don't infringe trademarks. Why not by those? As far as your point about owning and enjoying a piece of art is interesting. There is a difference between buying a piece of art for the love of art and the artist and buying art as an investment. Below a certain value, there is no such thing as real or fake. In art, real or fake comes into play when an artist name is brought into it. Let's say you paid $1M for a Picasso and found out its fake. Regardless of whether you bought it for the love of art or as an investment, its worthless because it's not art and has no value. So yes, I would like it less. In fact I would hate it. |
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03-09-2014, 10:27 AM | #73 | |
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Thanks Tony
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03-09-2014, 02:49 PM | #74 | |
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People that buy a replica's main purpose is to DECEIVE people into thinking they have the authentic artifact. ![]() I come across these type of people daily on my items for-sale on local ads and their reason is "I offer what I only think your item is worth" and one offering 1/2 price of a brand new Submariner because "He thinks it is only worth $3,000 to him" It is a straight cop-out reason for people that cannot afford to buy the authentic piece and blatantly lie to themselves, flaunting their wrists to the general public claiming it is authentic. Though I could be bitter for paying face value for my Rolex, or maybe I understand why I paid that much for an item, or I have a milestone in my life that I want to celebrate... who knows the reason why people buy authentic and ludicrously spend thousands of dollars on a piece of jewellery? |
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03-09-2014, 05:03 PM | #75 | ||
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03-09-2014, 05:42 PM | #76 | |
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I'm certainly no expert but surely the Rolex Sub "style" is one of the most copied looks - OK not for $25 but for a sensible price. Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 03-09-2014 at 05:56 PM.. |
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03-09-2014, 06:35 PM | #77 |
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Okay...I understand now...all good.
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03-10-2014, 12:47 AM | #78 |
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Save up and buy the real thing. You'll appreciate it more and you can pass the watch on to your kids. Although fake boobs, butt etc are appreciated and can matter. I hope this puts things into perspective.
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03-10-2014, 02:40 AM | #79 |
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the essence of counterfeit is deception, that makes it abhorrent
It's like going to a bank to deposit your money, only to find out it's a sham operation... It's like going to a doctor, only to find out later he forged his diploma and license... Well who cares, no one got hurt, and the financial loss was minor. I suppose it all comes down to the kind of person you are, a liar, a sham, a fake. Well in that case, it's right up your alley. Personally, I hate fakes. No amount of flawless argument against Swiss horology industry will make a fake any more genuine, and a genuine into a fake. The word replica is garbage. No license exists to replicate, and no stamp of replica on the dial. It's still a pos fake. |
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03-10-2014, 03:02 AM | #80 | |
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All the best.
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03-10-2014, 03:21 AM | #81 | |
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03-10-2014, 04:13 AM | #82 |
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There is an interesting variation in attitudes that maybe reflects the posters own reason for owning an expensive designer watch.
No doubt the reason for buying a fake watch (and a Rolex in particular) for many is to infer a state of wealth that they do not have. Just as the reason for buying a real Rolex for many is simply to flaunt their wealth by owning the most obvious designer brand. I wonder if the more outspoken anti fakes are from this category. Anyway at the other end of the scale in both camps are the watch enthusiasts for whom its nothing to do with the money, but all about the watches. At the replica watch site I noted earlier (http://www.replica-watch.info/) there is an incredible level of knowledge and enthusiasm for watches of all sorts. I guess if you have a passion for watches (I don't) but not the money to indulge it, what else can you do? |
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03-10-2014, 05:48 AM | #83 | |
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I get it with something like a cleft lip or after a mastectomy or some other "thing" that deformed/removed the "stuff" they were born with. But implants or face to alter what's perfectly natural and the result of living doesn't seem like a case of fixing something that's broken. (Note: I'm not talking either about folks who have been diagnosed with BDD.) All the best.
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03-10-2014, 01:09 PM | #84 | |
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There is no such thing as a replica enthusiast. They are posers, period. It's like saying someone is a collector of Van Gough reproductions. There is nothing collectable and there is nothing to be passionate about here. There are plenty of watch enthusiast that don't have money to buy the big names and there are plenty of watches that allow you to enjoy mechanical movements without buying counterfeits. Coming from a car forum, specifically an M3 forum, I don't understand how there can possible be a disconnect here. What if China started producing a car and called it a BMW M3 but sold it for 10% of the MSRP of a real BMW? To 99% of the world, they are indistinguishable - Would you buy it? |
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03-10-2014, 01:17 PM | #85 | |
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I bought my M3 for track performance and daily driving comfort. I could care less if Hyundai made the M3. I did not buy it because of the brand or badging.
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03-10-2014, 01:25 PM | #86 |
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The problem is a knock off watch can perform as well as the real think or better if you add quartz movement. An fake m3 at 10 percent the cost surely can't.
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03-10-2014, 01:30 PM | #87 |
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So you're okay with the company that would unlawfully use the names BMW M3 to brand their car? I'm not talking about a no name performance car. I'm talking about a company stealing the BMW M3 design, and manufacturing one - part for part, and selling it as a BMW M3 even though it's not an M3 nor made by BMW
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03-10-2014, 01:34 PM | #88 | |
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